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Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE)

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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#21 » by BullChit » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:07 pm

I appreciate that Valentine is no longer a Bull
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#22 » by ChettheJet » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:18 pm

He wasn't a bad pick, yeah you can name every player drafted after him that turned out better, you needed to be picking for the Bulls if you knew so much then. He fit the bill of a solid contributing 3 or 4 year player from a winning program. That's what GarPax did consistently.

I just don't see where he met any expectations. Wasn't a great shooter so wasn't much of a scorer, wasn't a great defender. Wasn't a great ball handler. He was adequate to average on occasion but he was also injured too often. I count ending up in Boylen's doghouse as a PLUS in his favor, because that guy was assbackwards on his thinking about everything basketball. Last year there were times when he looked like the steady veteran off the bench that could stick around and contribute and other times he chucked up shots and made bad plays on both ends.

That CLE signed him and hasn't managed to cut loose Love makes you question their management. he probably saved a year before he ends up in Japan or Europe.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#23 » by dougthonus » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:41 pm

If he had stayed healthy I think he would have been an okay, but still unspectacular pick (in a god awful draft overall). He had decent talent just lacked health and athleticism.

That said, he wasn't a useful player for us and won't be missed.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#24 » by Grodoboldo » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:03 pm

dougthonus wrote:If he had stayed healthy I think he would have been an okay, but still unspectacular pick (in a god awful draft overall). He had decent talent just lacked health and athleticism.

That said, he wasn't a useful player for us and won't be missed.


Can you get Fred to make an account here just so he can answer your post? :lol:
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#25 » by dougthonus » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:24 pm

Grodoboldo wrote:
dougthonus wrote:If he had stayed healthy I think he would have been an okay, but still unspectacular pick (in a god awful draft overall). He had decent talent just lacked health and athleticism.

That said, he wasn't a useful player for us and won't be missed.


Can you get Fred to make an account here just so he can answer your post? :lol:


I am sure you can get Fred's view of that on twitter :lol:
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#26 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:56 am

MGB8 wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Ben Wilson25 wrote:I hated the pick when they took him. It was emblematic of one of Pax’s main downfalls; we desperately needed athletic 2 way players and he just couldn’t resist the safe college “winner” from a blue chip program.


When we took him, my post was that he was exactly the type of player they covet.


Yup. Of course, so was Brogdon - similar profile - and it was the latter who performed/translated.


Brogdon didn't have the achievements that Valentine did though. Valentine was a filet mignon for GarPax.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#27 » by Bowly » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:09 am

dougthonus wrote:
Grodoboldo wrote:
dougthonus wrote:If he had stayed healthy I think he would have been an okay, but still unspectacular pick (in a god awful draft overall). He had decent talent just lacked health and athleticism.

That said, he wasn't a useful player for us and won't be missed.


Can you get Fred to make an account here just so he can answer your post? :lol:


I am sure you can get Fred's view of that on twitter :lol:


You mean See Cavs Fred?
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#28 » by HomoSapien » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:41 am

No appreciation at all over here. Terrible basketball player and completely laughable that he was on the roster for 5 years.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#29 » by BullChit » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:42 am

Bowly wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Grodoboldo wrote:
Can you get Fred to make an account here just so he can answer your post? :lol:


I am sure you can get Fred's view of that on twitter :lol:


You mean See Cavs Fred?


That's better than SeeBrownFred... or SeeMaroonFred
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#30 » by bulls_troy » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:17 am

BullChit wrote:
Bowly wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
I am sure you can get Fred's view of that on twitter :lol:


You mean See Cavs Fred?


That's better than SeeBrownFred... or SeeMaroonFred


Wine Red Fred
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#31 » by samwana » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:42 am

AirLaVine8 wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Bowly wrote:
You mean See Cavs Fred?


That's better than SeeBrownFred... or SeeMaroonFred


Wine Red Fred
Whine Red Fred

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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#32 » by BullChit » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:40 pm

AirLaVine8 wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Bowly wrote:
You mean See Cavs Fred?


That's better than SeeBrownFred... or SeeMaroonFred


Wine Red Fred


Hahaha brilliant
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#33 » by kodo » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:20 pm

Thought he was fine and the pick was fine in the context of what Foreman wanted and was trying to do.
82 games ran the #s on what the average draft pick produces, and #14 produces 8 ppg 3 rpg.
Denzel averaged 7.4 ppg 3.5 rpg. So basically right where he's supposed to be.

He never had a high ceiling, but this pick was never supposed to even have a small chance of being a star. This was the Rose/Butler/Gasol team, they were looking at this pick to produce someone who could play the very next season in a meaningful way.
It was the exact same thinking as the McDermott pick. Paxson pretty much said so point blank in a podcast these are how these picks were viewed during this era.

Philosophically probably not the right way to use picks, but then you need to fire your GM.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#34 » by Wingy » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:45 pm

HomoSapien wrote:No appreciation at all over here. Terrible basketball player and completely laughable that he was on the roster for 5 years.


Might as well have sold the pick, and signed a vet min guy off the scrap heap. At least then ownership would’ve made some more money!
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#35 » by Mk0 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:56 am

I appreciate that I never have to root for this guy ever again.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#36 » by Wingy » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:21 pm

Mk0 wrote:I appreciate that I never have to root for this guy ever again.


Oh boy...don’t jinx us!! :o
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#37 » by petebraun0 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:01 pm

thedarkstark wrote:Cleveland taking all our scrubs :clap: :clap: :clap:


Might have to catch some Cleveland games and watch Bulls II.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#38 » by Mr. Tibbs » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:24 pm

I think I'm on my own island here but I actually liked Denzel. Awful athleticism, couldn't really finish around the basket and didn't try to. But I thought he kept the offense humming and could put up points fast when he was hot. I think there's a tendency to overreact to people who have Javale Mcgee level cringey bad moments..which admittedly valentine definitely had lol.

I'm not at all torn up that he's not here anymore, but I think he's good enough to be an NBA rotation player on a number of teams. I also think he's infinitely better than say a Chandler Hutchison (which may not be saying much but still).

On a slightly related note..does anyone have that gif where Denzel looked like a crazy person on the bench reacting to Makoka going nuts in his first game? I feel like I've had nightmares of that.
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#39 » by ATRAIN53 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:58 pm

how did we not work LOVE into the Valentine appreciation thread title?

I sense a small rersurgence there. Otherwsie it's his last stop before he's working for his brother at Loyola....
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Re: Valentine appreciation thread (signed with CLE) 

Post#40 » by drosestruts » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:28 pm

Ah memories.

From the early days of arguing that we should be playing him at point guard. My excitement when in a mid-february overtime win against the suns we finally went with the Valentine-Wade-Butler-Mirotic-Lopez lineup and our young Denzel was a +25 in a 7-point overtime win. A game that Hoiberg took nothing away from and immediately reverted back to the same old lineup and rotations in the immediate next game.

Denzel was the lead guard at MSU, we drafted him, looked at his height, and said - wing spot-up shooter.

Then he injures his ankle and the limited athletics he had is further reduced. Still a good shooter, still a good rebounder (especially considering the lack of athleticism), good help defender, bad lead defender.

At the end of the GarPax regime we really got away from putting players in position to succeed by playing to their strengths and instead tried to force guys into whatever version of basketball we thought should be happening. Jimmy Butler is the main victim of this philosophy but guys like Valentine were certainly collateral damage of this.

Bet he goes off for 30 against us but makes a critical error in the 4th quarter to allow the Bulls to win.

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