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AK-Sato Awkward Exit

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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#81 » by Wingy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:25 pm

The Evidence wrote:First we got roasted by The Promise.

Now Sato.

Why are our scrubs so entitled?


This is a person with a completely natural reaction to an employee/employer communication. The same type of reaction that most of you railing against him would have too in a similar situation and context.

Except for some reason, Sato has no right to feel that way cause that rubs your fandom the wrong way.

Seems like a lot of fans are pretty entitled.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#82 » by League Circles » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:04 pm

dougthonus wrote:
fleet wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
I don't think anyone is asking AK to get lengthy or emotional. Just the courtesy of a phone call which seems like a standard thing. What AK did isn't crazy, but it lacks standard professional courtesy.

Just asking how we know this?


Common sense and the general collective experience as to how you treat people in any even remotely similar situation in life?

It's like firing someone over email or breaking up over text or something like that. It's just completely plain common sense that the generally correct thing to do in this situation is make a phone call or meet in person. Doesn't have to be AK, could have been ME, but someone from the Bulls should have called him and done a cursory thank you for your time etc...

Again, isn't the end of the world, but it is a very basic concept of human decency that cross cuts any similar type of situation where you are choosing to end a relationship with someone, the expectation of society is to let that person know in as personal a method as is practical. Face to face would be ideal but not practical in this sense. A phone call is the most practical thing you could do.

As far as I understand, there is no reason to presume that ME didn't make a call, have a conversation, etc. All Sour Sato's comment indicates is what he heard from AK and how he heard it, and that he thinks AK is the general manager, and that because of all the hard work he put in, that he thought it was "brutal". He doesn't mention whether he called JR, MR, or AK to thank them for all the hard cash they gave him, or BD/JB for all the minutes they gave him, etc.

Ultimately, Sato is 3 levels beneath AK in the hierarchy. I think a text is fine. I'm mostly just having fun with this idea though because I think there was likely something lost in translation in Sato's comments.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#83 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:24 pm

League Circles wrote:As far as I understand, there is no reason to presume that ME didn't make a call, have a conversation, etc. All Sour Sato's comment indicates is what he heard from AK and how he heard it, and that he thinks AK is the general manager, and that because of all the hard work he put in, that he thought it was "brutal". He doesn't mention whether he called JR, MR, or AK to thank them for all the hard cash they gave him, or BD/JB for all the minutes they gave him, etc.


No, but you can infer that ME didn't call him because if ME did call him, his comments are completely out of sorts and idiotic. It's obviously a possibility in this case, but it seems unlikely to me because his comments would then be completely irrational and wouldn't really match the rest of his comments which seem pretty rational. He wasn't straight dumping on the org with what he said or filled with vitriol, if he was then I could see where it is more likely some context might be missing or he is just bitter.

And they didn't just give him a bunch of hard cash, what a ridiculous take. They paid him market value for his services, and his play pretty easily validated the amount they paid him. I'm not sure why people are bitter over Sato or decided that at 10M a year on a 3 year deal with only 2 years guaranteed that he was going to be a top 20 PG in the NBA, but that seems to be the expectation and was way out of bounds with what those types of players are actually offered. He was pretty trivially the best PG on the team last year and was definitely not viewed as a negative contract or else NOP wouldn't have taken him as they had no incentive to otherwise.

Ultimately, Sato is 3 levels beneath AK in the hierarchy. I think a text is fine. I'm mostly just having fun with this idea though because I think there was likely something lost in translation in Sato's comments.


If he also got a call from someone in the Bulls org, then I agree. I find this to be really unlikely though. I don't really care about the situation one way or the other. I just think people are just ridiculously out of touch with their expectations of human life to rip on Sato in this situation unless he has left out critical information such as ME calling him and AK just doing a text follow up.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#84 » by League Circles » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:32 pm

dougthonus wrote:
League Circles wrote:As far as I understand, there is no reason to presume that ME didn't make a call, have a conversation, etc. All Sour Sato's comment indicates is what he heard from AK and how he heard it, and that he thinks AK is the general manager, and that because of all the hard work he put in, that he thought it was "brutal". He doesn't mention whether he called JR, MR, or AK to thank them for all the hard cash they gave him, or BD/JB for all the minutes they gave him, etc.


No, but you can infer that ME didn't call him because if ME did call him, his comments are completely out of sorts and idiotic. It's obviously a possibility in this case, but it seems unlikely to me because his comments would then be completely irrational and wouldn't really match the rest of his comments which seem pretty rational. He wasn't straight dumping on the org with what he said or filled with vitriol, if he was then I could see where it is more likely some context might be missing or he is just bitter.

And they didn't just give him a bunch of hard cash, what a ridiculous take. They paid him market value for his services, and his play pretty easily validated the amount they paid him. I'm not sure why people are bitter over Sato or decided that at 10M a year on a 3 year deal with only 2 years guaranteed that he was going to be a top 20 PG in the NBA, but that seems to be the expectation and was way out of bounds with what those types of players are actually offered. He was pretty trivially the best PG on the team last year and was definitely not viewed as a negative contract or else NOP wouldn't have taken him as they had no incentive to otherwise.

Ultimately, Sato is 3 levels beneath AK in the hierarchy. I think a text is fine. I'm mostly just having fun with this idea though because I think there was likely something lost in translation in Sato's comments.


If he also got a call from someone in the Bulls org, then I agree. I find this to be really unlikely though. I don't really care about the situation one way or the other. I just think people are just ridiculously out of touch with their expectations of human life to rip on Sato in this situation unless he has left out critical information such as ME calling him and AK just doing a text follow up.

I wasn't suggesting that sato was overpaid (though I happen to think, and thought at time of signing, that he was bad for us to sign at that amount). I'm just indicating that to me, it's always a two way street. If he thinks it's brutal to not get a personal thank you call from AK for all his hard work (which was likley just market level work, nothing exceptional), then he should look in the mirror if he didn't make the same gesture in the opposite direction. His tone made it sound like he thought he really sacrificed in a noteworthy way, as opposed to just honoring his end of the deal, as the Bulls did on their end.

I really disagree that you can infer that ME didn't call him. For one, that is widely known as a GM role activity, and personal relationships are allegedly a big strength of ME. Second, Sato is quoted as saying "that's all I got from HIM (AK)". Had that been the only communication from the Bulls, he'd likely have said "them". Third, again, he completely, specifically botches the job title, so who knows what he's thinking (or what's really being translated accurately).
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#85 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:15 pm

League Circles wrote:I wasn't suggesting that sato was overpaid (though I happen to think, and thought at time of signing, that he was bad for us to sign at that amount). I'm just indicating that to me, it's always a two way street. If he thinks it's brutal to not get a personal thank you call from AK for all his hard work (which was likley just market level work, nothing exceptional), then he should look in the mirror if he didn't make the same gesture in the opposite direction. His tone made it sound like he thought he really sacrificed in a noteworthy way, as opposed to just honoring his end of the deal, as the Bulls did on their end.


If the sides mutually parted ways in FA where Sato signed somewhere else and the Bulls choose not to pursue him then that would make sense, but one side chose to end the relationship which is why a phone call would be normal. It really blows my mind that anyone would not be able to understand that basic societal norm.

I really disagree that you can infer that ME didn't call him. For one, that is widely known as a GM role activity, and personal relationships are allegedly a big strength of ME. Second, Sato is quoted as saying "that's all I got from HIM (AK)". Had that been the only communication from the Bulls, he'd likely have said "them". Third, again, he completely, specifically botches the job title, so who knows what he's thinking (or what's really being translated accurately).


If Eversley called him and he didn't mention it (or the reporter left it out and he did mention it) then whomever left that out is being massively intellectually dishonest. Obviously a possibility, but not one that I would generally start with when evaluating information unless there is a reason to think someone would be intellectually dishonest and I have no reason to think that.

Your specific reasons don't really seem to change the likelihood of that for me, but again, if Eversley did call him and AK followed up with a text, then I'd agree, that is entirely appropriate. Confusing job titles is irrelevant and actually makes it more likely that Eversley didn't call him, because if Eversley did call him he'd be less likely to screw up the titles. The title is also a generic, because it's only recently that the guy in AK's position wouldn't be GM and teams went to this EVP/GM model vs GM/AGM model to make people sound more important. A poster mentioned in the article that he had a good conversation with Donovan after he left, making the him/them thing irrelevant in this context as he did talk with Donovan.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#86 » by IamSam » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:43 pm

This is the first time Sato's ever been traded in the NBA, so I wonder if it's possible that he may have some different expectations of communications from team officials than what is currently deemed appropriate professionally in the age of texting.

Texting has been a pretty accepted means of professional communications for some time. I would imagine that Covid has made it an even more depended upon resource, especially given that NBA players and staff tend to be mobile across the entire planet particularly during the off-season.

I guess I just don't quite get what else Sato might have expected; would he have been happy with a canned "I wish you much success for the future" or a "thanks for the not quite 8ppg that did not help us make the play-offs OR play-ins"...?

I also wonder if international players expect that their quotes from interviews with their hometown press will actually be on anyone's radar here in the U.S. so maybe they tend to speak a bit more... freely.

My main point is... I'm glad that pre-season is less than three weeks away. :lol:
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#87 » by GetBuLLish » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:58 pm

I honestly wonder what the homerism would be like on this board if the Bulls were to win a championship. Would posters create a new religion with AK as its deity? Would criticism of AK be met with death threats?

Because it's already at an astonishing level with the Bulls only being projected by Vegas to be around a .500 team. Can't imagine what it would be like if the Bulls were championship level. My goodness. If that were the case, AK could pistol whip Sato out the door and people would be blaming Sato for causing damage to AK's gun.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#88 » by samwana » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:39 pm

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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#89 » by fleet » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:54 pm

dougthonus wrote:
fleet wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
I don't think anyone is asking AK to get lengthy or emotional. Just the courtesy of a phone call which seems like a standard thing. What AK did isn't crazy, but it lacks standard professional courtesy.

Just asking how we know this?


Common sense and the general collective experience as to how you treat people in any even remotely similar situation in life
?

It's like firing someone over email or breaking up over text or something like that. It's just completely plain common sense that the generally correct thing to do in this situation is make a phone call or meet in person. Doesn't have to be AK, could have been ME, but someone from the Bulls should have called him and done a cursory thank you for your time etc...

Again, isn't the end of the world, but it is a very basic concept of human decency that cross cuts any similar type of situation where you are choosing to end a relationship with someone, the expectation of society is to let that person know in as personal a method as is practical. Face to face would be ideal but not practical in this sense. A phone call is the most practical thing you could do.

Doug, it sounds like you are guessing based on your personal experiences, not on pro sports, which is decidedly unsimilar to any situation in life. For all you know it happens all the time to the lower half of the roster if not more often. In fact, the only situation we currently know of is not according to your projections. So if anything, evidence is to the contrary. I have a vague recollection of a situation where a player found out they had been traded because their agent told them. Gotta believe that happens..based on common sense.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#90 » by ArtMorte » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:02 pm

I don't really care, Sato was a bit-part player in Chicago and failed to step up when given the opportunity to get into our long-term plans. This is as neutral an exit as you get and there's no need to sugar coat it.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#91 » by fleet » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:21 pm

ArtMorte wrote:I don't really care, Sato was a bit-part player in Chicago and failed to step up when given the opportunity to get into our long-term plans. This is as neutral an exit as you get and there's no need to sugar coat it.

:dontknow: People have personal preferences on how administrator ought to do business, but it takes all kinds. As an emplyee all I ever needed was a straightforward answer, some predictability, and fairness/equal treatment. Others may want the boss to be friendly, outgoing, gregarious, know your family, family atmosphere and all that. Others understand, and productively react to a fear-based model best. Whatever. If a boss is leading a functional organization, personally that is the bottom line for me. That is how I feel about the Bulls. I don't care if AK is a guy ridiculed like Jerry Krause because his style engenders a negative reaction. If AK puts a team on the floor I can be inspired by to enjoy, man, I don't care how he communicates either.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#92 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:36 pm

fleet wrote:Doug, it sounds like you are guessing based on your personal experiences, not on pro sports, which is decidedly unsimilar to any situation in life.


I would hardly call my experiences personal in terms of when you terminate a relationship with someone you do so in a way that is as personal as possible. I would imagine that most people on this forum would have a similar societal take on such things as experienced by any time there is a job loss or breakup in a relationship. There are just commonly accepted principles here for how you handle termination of a relationship whether it be business or personal.

I rank this similarly to seeing someone fail to return a shopping cart. I briefly think, wow, that dude's a jerk, then don't think about it again. This was a basic lack of professional conduct based on the information I have seen. Though I will say again, if Eversley called him and AK followed up with a text then Sato or the author is deliberately misrepresenting the situation and I would view it differently.

For all you know it happens all the time to the lower half of the roster if not more often. In fact, the only situation we currently know of is not according to your projections. So if anything, evidence is to the contrary. I have a vague recollection of a situation where a player found out they had been traded because their agent told them. Gotta believe that happens..based on common sense.


You are conflating two very different things:
1: Did the player hear first from the team. I do not have this expectation.
2: Did the player have a phone or face to face conversation with a team executive. I do have that expectation.

You pointing out that the 1st thing frequently happens is not evidence of the 2nd thing frequently happening. In all of the articles I have heard of relating to the 1st thing, the player also always quotes it as "I heard from twitter before the team" or something like that, not the team just sent me a text and otherwise didn't talk to me at all. I cannot think of any other example of that (though I'm sure there are some, but I would guess they were equally shouted down as unprofessional).
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#93 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:54 pm

fleet wrote:
ArtMorte wrote:I don't really care, Sato was a bit-part player in Chicago and failed to step up when given the opportunity to get into our long-term plans. This is as neutral an exit as you get and there's no need to sugar coat it.

:dontknow: People have personal preferences on how administrator ought to do business, but it takes all kinds. As an emplyee all I ever needed was a straightforward answer, some predictability, and fairness/equal treatment. Others may want the boss to be friendly, outgoing, gregarious, know your family, family atmosphere and all that. Others understand, and productively react to a fear-based model best. Whatever. If a boss is leading a functional organization, personally that is the bottom line for me. That is how I feel about the Bulls. I don't care if AK is a guy ridiculed like Jerry Krause because his style engenders a negative reaction. If AK puts a team on the floor I can be inspired by to enjoy, man, I don't care how he communicates either.


In the broader sense, I don't care if AK is a nice guy or not if he wins either. Such is life in sports. I'm only even discussing it because it's on a message forum and there's not much otherwise interesting to discuss.

This is what I call a classic lose tie vs win tie situation.

Calling Sato and speaking with him in person is a win / tie. You have maybe some small upside by behaving in a way that is generally professional and no downside to it. Things will never be worse for taking this step.

The way he responded instead is a lose / tie. It may not matter at all, but it is less professional and may has a chance of rubbing someone the wrong way.

In life, you should always seek out win / tie situations and avoid lose / tie situations.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#94 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:42 am

logical_art wrote:I know fans have become AK homers but this is a players league. Treat the players right. Disappointing from AK if true.


If AK wasn't treating players right, DDR wouldn't have signed here, nor Lonzo.

He texted him a thank you and Sato didn't like it, nothing wrong with Sato's response and nothing wrong with how AK contacted him about the trade.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#95 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:45 am

fleet wrote:
ArtMorte wrote:I don't really care, Sato was a bit-part player in Chicago and failed to step up when given the opportunity to get into our long-term plans. This is as neutral an exit as you get and there's no need to sugar coat it.

:dontknow: People have personal preferences on how administrator ought to do business, but it takes all kinds. As an emplyee all I ever needed was a straightforward answer, some predictability, and fairness/equal treatment. Others may want the boss to be friendly, outgoing, gregarious, know your family, family atmosphere and all that. Others understand, and productively react to a fear-based model best. Whatever. If a boss is leading a functional organization, personally that is the bottom line for me. That is how I feel about the Bulls. I don't care if AK is a guy ridiculed like Jerry Krause because his style engenders a negative reaction. If AK puts a team on the floor I can be inspired by to enjoy, man, I don't care how he communicates either.


I'm the same way. I care nothing about the extra little things some do. If I am not dating you or screwing you then I just need you to do your job and let me do mine.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#96 » by robert76 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:13 am

IamSam wrote:This is the first time Sato's ever been traded in the NBA, so I wonder if it's possible that he may have some different expectations of communications from team officials than what is currently deemed appropriate professionally in the age of texting.

Texting has been a pretty accepted means of professional communications for some time. I would imagine that Covid has made it an even more depended upon resource, especially given that NBA players and staff tend to be mobile across the entire planet particularly during the off-season.

I guess I just don't quite get what else Sato might have expected; would he have been happy with a canned "I wish you much success for the future" or a "thanks for the not quite 8ppg that did not help us make the play-offs OR play-ins"...?

I also wonder if international players expect that their quotes from interviews with their hometown press will actually be on anyone's radar here in the U.S. so maybe they tend to speak a bit more... freely.

My main point is... I'm glad that pre-season is less than three weeks away. :lol:


Sato was sign-and-traded to the Bulls from the Wizards.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#97 » by IamSam » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:39 pm

robert76 wrote:
IamSam wrote:This is the first time Sato's ever been traded in the NBA, so I wonder if it's possible that he may have some different expectations of communications from team officials than what is currently deemed appropriate professionally in the age of texting.

Texting has been a pretty accepted means of professional communications for some time. I would imagine that Covid has made it an even more depended upon resource, especially given that NBA players and staff tend to be mobile across the entire planet particularly during the off-season.

I guess I just don't quite get what else Sato might have expected; would he have been happy with a canned "I wish you much success for the future" or a "thanks for the not quite 8ppg that did not help us make the play-offs OR play-ins"...?

I also wonder if international players expect that their quotes from interviews with their hometown press will actually be on anyone's radar here in the U.S. so maybe they tend to speak a bit more... freely.

My main point is... I'm glad that pre-season is less than three weeks away. :lol:


Sato was sign-and-traded to the Bulls from the Wizards.


I stand corrected. He's definitely not a guy who's been traded a whole bunch so, I think the basic premise of my post still holds up.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#98 » by Stratmaster » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:16 pm

dougthonus wrote:
fleet wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
I don't think anyone is asking AK to get lengthy or emotional. Just the courtesy of a phone call which seems like a standard thing. What AK did isn't crazy, but it lacks standard professional courtesy.

Just asking how we know this?


Common sense and the general collective experience as to how you treat people in any even remotely similar situation in life?

It's like firing someone over email or breaking up over text or something like that. It's just completely plain common sense that the generally correct thing to do in this situation is make a phone call or meet in person. Doesn't have to be AK, could have been ME, but someone from the Bulls should have called him and done a cursory thank you for your time etc...

Again, isn't the end of the world, but it is a very basic concept of human decency that cross cuts any similar type of situation where you are choosing to end a relationship with someone, the expectation of society is to let that person know in as personal a method as is practical. Face to face would be ideal but not practical in this sense. A phone call is the most practical thing you could do.
People get walked out of their offices by first level managers and security every day at major companies. They purposely do it with no warning. The CEO doesn't call or text.

All that to say that we probably all agree that Pro sports are a different animal so let's not compare to normal businesses or a relationship break-up.

What about Billy Donovan? Isn't it usually the direct manager of any employee who delivers the news?

I am not worried about this from an AK perspective. Shocked he sent anything for a 2 year guy who had little impact on the organization. But yeah... somebody should have called and had a conversation.

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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#99 » by ATRAIN53 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:05 pm

It's interesting because there was a lot of hype when we signed him.
I still remember his face plant as a Wizard on the Bulls floor.

Caruso was a bit cheaper and younger so it made him expendable.
I didn't realize he was the Sato replacement but he is.


really good chat about AK on the Latest Lowe Post-

they said he's just a lock with information, like you get NOTHING out of him.
He'll talk but he's not giving you anything. Like even Woj would have a tough time getting anything. That's rough.

I'm pretty convinced this is exactly why Uncle Jerry hired him.
He probably wanted the opposite of Pax who was spending a lot of time trying to defend his job and appease the media.


We got Sato him in a trade, so it's not like AK courted him and brought him here because he wanted him.
Was he even the GM when we got him?

Also I thought this was the stuff AGENTS do?
I thought they communicated with the FO and negotiate the deals, I would think his agent was the one to tell him the Bulls were trading him. Like if he was any good he would have known it was on the table maybe a few days before it went down and warned him to put his house up for sale and not buy that mansion in the Chicago burbs....

I still recall the story of when IT says Ainge called him to say he was being traded.
He penned a Players Trib article to trash Ainge and he's still waiting for his Brinks truck. They are humans and they have feelings and they want to be wanted. So when you get rejected it stings. We all know that feeling.


and there's no debate between Ingram or Lavine until we see them in the playoffs.
NEITHER has been good enough to drag his team there yet - and Ingram has ZION.
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Re: AK-Sato Awkward Exit 

Post#100 » by dougthonus » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:24 pm

Stratmaster wrote:People get walked out of their offices by first level managers and security every day at major companies. They purposely do it with no warning. The CEO doesn't call or text.


Not really relevant.

I'm not asking Micheal Reinsdorf to talk to him. In this scenario, you have some type of face to face with a company rep. In every company I have ever worked, your direct manager speaks with you about the decision. They don't block your access and send you a text. There's also a big difference between being fired and a trade, the security protocols around fired people are typically so they can't damage the firm.

All that to say that we probably all agree that Pro sports are a different animal so let's not compare to normal businesses or a relationship break-up.


I agree it is different, I used the example to put it in perspective to things that are similar.

What about Billy Donovan? Isn't it usually the direct manager of any employee who delivers the news?


If it was a camp cut, it should be Donovan. Donovan would have control over that and owe the explanation. A trade is for AKME to call and notify.

I am not worried about this from an AK perspective. Shocked he sent anything for a 2 year guy who had little impact on the organization. But yeah... somebody should have called and had a conversation.


You only have 15 players, you spend that time with all of them.
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