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Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division?

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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#21 » by sljdaddy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:12 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
sljdaddy wrote:I'd take Lonzo over every starting point guard in our division except Brogdon


So you'd take Brogdon and Lonzo over Jrue?

I mean...okay.


I would.

For what the Bulls need: a floor general. Jrue is more of a combo guard. So are Garland and Sexton.

As I mentioned, I don't have enough NBA data on Cunningham to assess.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#22 » by Kurt Heimlich » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:28 pm

Definitely getting "I don't like Lonzo" vibes as to the motivation of this post.

I don't think there's much value to be gained from this topic though. Jrue is better ok fine (the whole Bucks team is better so it's not really a PG issue as to why the Bucks are better than the Bulls). Brogdon has been better as well, but I wouldn't call him a game changer impact guy. The Cavs point guards haven't proven anything more than Lonzo (and Sexton is obviously an undersized scoring guard) and Killian Hayes/Cade whoever you want to call the Pistons point guard are similarly unproven albeit with upside of course.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#23 » by HomoSapien » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:32 pm

The good news is that all the guys mentioned in the OP are expected to be a top 3 player for their team. Lonzo Ball doesn't have that expectation for us.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#24 » by Little Nathan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:37 pm

sljdaddy wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:So you'd take Brogdon and Lonzo over Jrue?

I mean...okay.


I would.


That's insane to me. Holiday is by far the best player in this group IMO.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#25 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:01 pm

NBA Divisions, and therefore this question, are irrelevant.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#26 » by gardenofsound » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:09 pm

Lonzo Ball isn't a point guard. Stop thinking of him as if he is.

With three starters capable of getting their own buckets when necessary (LaVine, DeRozan, and Vucevic), I'd expect more triangle-like sets with the three of them, then putting Lonzo and Williams as cutters or off-ball getting open from range.

I don't expect the ball to be in Ball's hands all that much, and when he does get the ball, I don't expect much dribbling in the half court. He may bring the ball up, but then immediately pass to LaVine for DeRozan upon crossing the time line.

Consider abandoning the idea of the Bulls having a "point" position on the court. The name of the game will be movement, and outside of those aforementioned iso-threats, there shouldn't be much dribbling either. Shoot if there's a shot, otherwise pass, and only dribble if the other two options aren't available unless it's a clear P&R/P, which I expect would put LaVine or DeRozan as the ball handler while Vucevic or Williams set the screen.

Lonzo will be as much of a "point guard" for these Bulls as Ron Harper was.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#27 » by Stratmaster » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:23 pm

Evil_Headband wrote:Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball (Beetlejuice test)

Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball (Candyman test)

It’s OK. Nothing happened. You can type his name.
This made me laugh out loud

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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#28 » by bearadonisdna » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:15 pm

Kurt Heimlich wrote:Definitely getting "I don't like Lonzo" vibes as to the motivation of this post.

I don't think there's much value to be gained from this topic though. Jrue is better ok fine (the whole Bucks team is better so it's not really a PG issue as to why the Bucks are better than the Bulls). Brogdon has been better as well, but I wouldn't call him a game changer impact guy. The Cavs point guards haven't proven anything more than Lonzo (and Sexton is obviously an undersized scoring guard) and Killian Hayes/Cade whoever you want to call the Pistons point guard are similarly unproven albeit with upside of course.


of course i dont dont like lonzo.
Do i like the acquisition? is he really better than coby white at and exponentially higher price?
Did the knicks get a better point guard for half the price?
Just the addition and the loss of lauri im a little worried we might not get the sum of the additions.

Now can lonzo help with some on-court efficiency , yes i think he can but i dont know if im sold that he is the type of player that turns the needle to winning, Across the board i have him a middling pointguard to likely lose his matchup on many nights.

This guy was 14 and 5 in a career year so i think its normal to be skeptical of his effectiveness in terms of winning,
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#29 » by sco » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:49 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:
Kurt Heimlich wrote:Definitely getting "I don't like Lonzo" vibes as to the motivation of this post.

I don't think there's much value to be gained from this topic though. Jrue is better ok fine (the whole Bucks team is better so it's not really a PG issue as to why the Bucks are better than the Bulls). Brogdon has been better as well, but I wouldn't call him a game changer impact guy. The Cavs point guards haven't proven anything more than Lonzo (and Sexton is obviously an undersized scoring guard) and Killian Hayes/Cade whoever you want to call the Pistons point guard are similarly unproven albeit with upside of course.


of course i dont dont like lonzo.
Do i like the acquisition? is he really better than coby white at and exponentially higher price?
Did the knicks get a better point guard for half the price?
Just the addition and the loss of lauri im a little worried we might not get the sum of the additions.

Now can lonzo help with some on-court efficiency , yes i think he can but i dont know if im sold that he is the type of player that turns the needle to winning, Across the board i have him a middling pointguard to likely lose his matchup on many nights.

This guy was 14 and 5 in a career year so i think its normal to be skeptical of his effectiveness in terms of winning,

I'll take the "glass is half full" view. He's shown at times that he can be a guy who can run an offense, score from 3 and be a good defender...but to be better than a middling PG (Coby was an eye sore to watch as PG, btw) he'll need to take a couple of steps forward, but he's been one of those guys who puts in the work and it has shown results over the years.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#30 » by coldfish » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:01 am

Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

The offense is largely going to run through DDR, Lavine and Vucevic. If Lonzo is out there running all the plays, dominating the ball like he is Chris Paul, the Bulls are doing it wrong. Ball has to play defense, push the ball and hit open shots. I think he can do that.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#31 » by WindyCityBorn » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:02 am

The season really needs to get here. The amount of ridiculously bad takes is making this board hard to read.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#32 » by WindyCityBorn » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:09 am

coldfish wrote:Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

The offense is largely going to run through DDR, Lavine and Vucevic. If Lonzo is out there running all the plays, dominating the ball like he is Chris Paul, the Bulls are doing it wrong. Ball has to play defense, push the ball and hit open shots. I think he can do that.


I’m not sure he is overpaid. He was paid for we think he can do here.

I alss as I don’t think JRrue is that good. Place him on Phoenix, Portland, Golden State, Nets and they are nowhere near as good as they are with their current PGs. He is a glorified role player playing next to a top 3 NBA player.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#33 » by Axl Rose » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:52 am

This may mean something if Lonzo was our best player but he is slated to be our 4th best.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#34 » by khufure » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 pm

coldfish wrote:Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#35 » by khufure » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:48 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
coldfish wrote:Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

The offense is largely going to run through DDR, Lavine and Vucevic. If Lonzo is out there running all the plays, dominating the ball like he is Chris Paul, the Bulls are doing it wrong. Ball has to play defense, push the ball and hit open shots. I think he can do that.


I’m not sure he is overpaid. He was paid for we think he can do here.

I alss as I don’t think JRrue is that good. Place him on Phoenix, Portland, Golden State, Nets and they are nowhere near as good as they are with their current PGs. He is a glorified role player playing next to a top 3 NBA player.

Yeah! Jrue is also 31 going on 32, and most guards start declining then.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#36 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:51 pm

I guess no one watched the Olympics, where Jrue was clearly the 2nd best player on that team.

Jrue

Brogdon
Ball

Cade
Garland
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#37 » by coldfish » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:08 pm

khufure wrote:
coldfish wrote:Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.


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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#38 » by MrSparkle » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:11 pm

Jrue became a top-15 player the last month of the season and into the olympics. I dunno if that’s sustainable; he hasn’t played at that level consistently.

Otherwise, seems like a wide open race. What have Cade and Garland/Sexton done? Brogdon is excellent but injury prone. Should be a nice fight.
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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#39 » by Ctownbulls » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:25 pm

MrSparkle wrote:Jrue became a top-15 player the last month of the season and into the olympics. I dunno if that’s sustainable; he hasn’t played at that level consistently.

Otherwise, seems like a wide open race. What have Cade and Garland/Sexton done? Brogdon is excellent but injury prone. Should be a nice fight.
Not even close to top 15, come on.

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Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#40 » by MrSparkle » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:19 pm

Ctownbulls wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Jrue became a top-15 player the last month of the season and into the olympics. I dunno if that’s sustainable; he hasn’t played at that level consistently.

Otherwise, seems like a wide open race. What have Cade and Garland/Sexton done? Brogdon is excellent but injury prone. Should be a nice fight.
Not even close to top 15, come on.

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Last month of season; ie the ECF and finals. He stepped up and played well. Then was basically one of the best USA reps.

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