Pat Williams Discussion - Out 4-6 Mo (late Feb to late April)

[sco]

I am tired at looking at his injury thread.

I was pleasantly surprised with his game last night in light of his being injured for a month.

What I saw:
- His vision and passing are very good. He made a few very quick reads with accurate passes that lead to easy buckets. Able to do that both in the full and half-court settings. As a starter alongside Zach, Vuc and DD - we need a guy who can find them in the split second that they are open. Pat, Ball and Caruso are all great at this and, IMO, will really boost our big 3's efficiency this season.

- His 3pt shooting is still good. I don't expect him to be a 40% 3pt shooter all season, but, man, if he and Zo can get to that point, we will be so deadly.

- His defensive positioning and awareness looked better than I thought. JJJ was a great test for him. And while JJJ had a big night, Pat kept good position on him and forced JJJ into some tough shots (that he made).

I like Pat starting, but I hope Billy stays with subbing him and DD out for Green and one of Alize, Brown or DJJ early.

[dougthonus]

I am tired at looking at his injury thread.

I was pleasantly surprised with his game last night in light of his being injured for a month.

What I saw:
- His vision and passing are very good. He made a few very quick reads with accurate passes that lead to easy buckets. Able to do that both in the full and half-court settings. As a starter alongside Zach, Vuc and DD - we need a guy who can find them in the split second that they are open. Pat, Ball and Caruso are all great at this and, IMO, will really boost our big 3's efficiency this season.

- His 3pt shooting is still good. I don't expect him to be a 40% 3pt shooter all season, but, man, if he and Zo can get to that point, we will be so deadly.

- His defensive positioning and awareness looked better than I thought. JJJ was a great test for him. And while JJJ had a big night, Pat kept good position on him and forced JJJ into some tough shots (that he made).

I like Pat starting, but I hope Billy stays with subbing him and DD out for Green and one of Alize, Brown or DJJ early.

I wouldn't be shocked if Pat is a 40% three point shooter. What would surprise me is if he can get a high volume of three point shots up and to be a dangerous three point shooter he needs to shoot a good volume not just a reasonable accuracy. He has a long/slow wind up and doesn't have dominating height to shoot over guys, so he needs to start his threes with a lot of space.

An interesting question is would you rather have 100 makes at 40% or 200 makes at 37%?

[Andi Obst]

An interesting question is would you rather have 100 makes at 40% or 200 makes at 37%?

It's easily the second option.

[CaPiTanAK]

He's a 2nd year player who's only 20 years old. It looks like he will be a net positive starter this year as a 3-D player on a winning team. That is very promising development.

[DuckIII]

I like Pat. He’s good.

[NecessaryEvil]

Love what I saw in limited time in his role. He's just solid, even as a really young guy. Still has to find his place and gel but I like what I see.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

He'll have this shot all season long with all the attention on Vuc/Zach/Demar. Ball & Pat will have it easy.

IMO he's too good of a prospect to not eventually be a really good player. I see a Jaylen Brown level breakout within yr 3-4.

But I have been called before

[ghostinthepost1]

I wouldn't be shocked if Pat is a 40% three point shooter. What would surprise me is if he can get a high volume of three point shots up and to be a dangerous three point shooter he needs to shoot a good volume not just a reasonable accuracy. He has a long/slow wind up and doesn't have dominating height to shoot over guys, so he needs to start his threes with a lot of space.

An interesting question is would you rather have 100 makes at 40% or 200 makes at 37%?

100% Agreed. I'm hoping the next step in his offensive growth is seeing him average 4-5 threes a game even if they're slightly less open than he's comfortable with.

Last year 77.5% of his three point attempts came with no one within 6 feet of him. Compare that with someone like Mikal Bridges who similarly takes a lot of catch-and-shoot threes but had only 57% of his shots be with no one within 6 feet of him (and on many more attempts).

Hopefully a lot of those pump fake two dribble pulls ups we saw from Pat last year turn into three point attempts.

Also yea, who would rather have someone go 200/540 from three from a season vs. 100/250.

[sco]

I wouldn't be shocked if Pat is a 40% three point shooter. What would surprise me is if he can get a high volume of three point shots up and to be a dangerous three point shooter he needs to shoot a good volume not just a reasonable accuracy. He has a long/slow wind up and doesn't have dominating height to shoot over guys, so he needs to start his threes with a lot of space.

An interesting question is would you rather have 100 makes at 40% or 200 makes at 37%?

100% Agreed. I'm hoping the next step in his offensive growth is seeing him average 4-5 threes a game even if they're slightly less open than he's comfortable with.

Last year 77.5% of his three point attempts came with no one within 6 feet of him. Compare that with someone like Mikal Bridges who similarly takes a lot of catch-and-shoot threes but had only 57% of his shots be with no one within 6 feet of him (and on many more attempts).

Hopefully a lot of those pump fake two dribble pulls ups we saw from Pat last year turn into three point attempts.

Also yea, who would rather have someone go 200/540 from three from a season vs. 100/250.

IMO his role as the 5th option on offense is to make teams pay for cheating off of him. This season, he doesn't need to make 200 3's, he just needs to be enough of a threat to keep his man from doubling-off of him and keep our big 3 from being double-teamed.

[coldfish]

I hope Pat becomes a good player but right now he is getting a lot of entitlement treatment. Javonte and Alize have played better than Pat did last night. Pat isn't going to be asked to be a primary offensive option. He needs to hit his open shots and really crank up his energy.

Oh, and Caruso. That guy is off the hook. I never even dreamed that he would be quarterbacking the team on both sides of the court like he is. Someone isn't going to finish games out of Caruso / Lavine / DDR / Pat / Vuc / Ball. Right now, I would say that Caruso, Lavine and Ball are locked.

Edit add: Just want to NOT turn this into player versus player stuff where it turns into season long feuds. The Bulls depth is really, really good. One guy playing well doesn't mean another is playing terrible.

[The Force.]

IMO he's too good of a prospect to not eventually be a really good player. I see a Jaylen Brown level breakout within yr 3-4.

But I have been called before

I doubt he’ll ever be as good as Jaylen Brown. More like a rich man’s Robert Hory. Just a very solid role player who hits open shots, plays D, and makes good decisions.

IMO, best case scenario would be someone like OG Anunoby, who looks to be in the running for MIP this year.


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[kodo]

To be high volume he (or anyone) needs to be able a dribble a bit before hitting the 3, he's a catch & shoot. You need to be able to catch, dribble sidestep into a 3, fake a drive and stepback into a 3, run the P&R and use the screen for the 3, etc.. If he was doing that as a PF that would be insane. Coby can do those things to some degree and still hit around 35%; I think that's more impressive than a set shooter at 40%.

Most PFs are good defenders & can hit that open 3 set shot. I think Pat's capable of doing that well enough.

[DuckIII]

IMO he's too good of a prospect to not eventually be a really good player. I see a Jaylen Brown level breakout within yr 3-4.

But I have been called before

I doubt he’ll ever be as good as Jaylen Brown. More like a rich man’s Robert Hory. Just a very solid role player who hits open shots, plays D, and makes good decisions.

IMO, best case scenario would be someone like OG Anunoby, who looks to be in the running for MIP this year.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Pat is 5.7x the prospect that Horry ever was and has a skill set approximately 270% more diverse. I’ve done the math.

[ChettheJet]

I think the big change for PW i going to come when the offense takes shape, more than 4 games, and he's allowed/encouraged to cut to the basket from the weak side when DeRozan and Vuc are working their way to the basket. Now like last year he remains behind the line on the weak side spacing the floor for the occasional 3 pointer. If he reads the play those two and maybe Ball, are making and cuts down the baseline, they only need to make a simple pass and he dunks the ball.

I like that already DeRozan is coming out early for Brown or Green, Zach stays in with the bench guys then DeRozan replaces Zach with the bench guys before Ball and Vuc come back in. This is good without White but can probably do well when Coby returns maybe Caruso or White coming for Ball early and Ball coming back with DeRozan.

[dougthonus]

An interesting question is would you rather have 100 makes at 40% or 200 makes at 37%?

It's easily the second option.

My initial thought was I completely agree, but in retrospect, I guess it depends. There is definitely some value to being able to handle more threes, but on this team I'm not sure that there is. 37% from three is ~56% TS% which is around league average whereas 40% is above. 40% probably gets us a better shot than the offense would generate otherwise and 37% might not. Given the other talent on the team offensively, we might be better off with 40% at 100 attempts.

Anyway, academic in terms of how the team is better off with the raw number of attempts, if Pat's ability was to do either and he got to choose that would be preferable.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I think Pat will be the lightning rod of discussion for the Bulls this year. When things go sideways, fans will look at Pat as the scapegoat, as the guy that needs to do more, needs to step up. I’m not saying right or wrong, but I think he’ll be a polarizing topic while the rest of the team kind of is what it is.

I like Pat. I struggle a bit to see the next wing star in him. I don’t see the demeanor, the intensity there. Hopefully I’m wrong, but the mentality is tough to change. I think he’s a very nice 14 and 6 player with very good defense. If someone like Simmons or Siakim becomes available for package around him, I hope the deal gets done quickly. But I like him, so I hope he succeeds.

[TheFinishSniper]

I think Pat will be the lightning rod of discussion for the Bulls this year. When things go sideways, fans will look at Pat as the scapegoat, as the guy that needs to do more, needs to step up. I’m not saying right or wrong, but I think he’ll be a polarizing topic while the rest of the team kind of is what it is.

I like Pat. I struggle a bit to see the next wing star in him. I don’t see the demeanor, the intensity there. Hopefully I’m wrong, but the mentality is tough to change. I think he’s a very nice 14 and 6 player with very good defense. If someone like Simmons or Siakim becomes available for package around him, I hope the deal gets done quickly. But I like him, so I hope he succeeds.

Pat needs to show signs to be star player. If he can't package him like we did WCJ for one. There is no more I like him dont like him. Play at level close to your draft position or GTFO from my franchise before your rookie deal extension.

[The Force.]

Pat needs to show signs to be star player. If he can't package him like we did WCJ for one. There is no more I like him dont like him. Play at level close to your draft position or GTFO from my franchise before your rookie deal extension.

Well that's mean.
To be fair, taking him at 4 was widely considered a reach.

[tedwilliams1999]

If Pat were to shoot more from three point land, he'd get blocked more often with his slow release. It happened in summer league, and it's the reason why he's hesitant to let it fly if a defender is in the vicinity. He doesn't have any of these issues off the dribble though, so that's interesting.

I just want to see him be as active at help defense as possible. Hopefully with improved conditioning, he can create more stocks. In general though I'm worried he'll always be a lower motor type player, which could be fine.

[logical_art]

Pat Williams reminds me of Marvin Williams. Talented but floats way too much.

[GoBlue72391]

I am tired at looking at his injury thread.

I was pleasantly surprised with his game last night in light of his being injured for a month.

What I saw:
- His vision and passing are very good. He made a few very quick reads with accurate passes that lead to easy buckets. Able to do that both in the full and half-court settings. As a starter alongside Zach, Vuc and DD - we need a guy who can find them in the split second that they are open. Pat, Ball and Caruso are all great at this and, IMO, will really boost our big 3's efficiency this season.

- His 3pt shooting is still good. I don't expect him to be a 40% 3pt shooter all season, but, man, if he and Zo can get to that point, we will be so deadly.

- His defensive positioning and awareness looked better than I thought. JJJ was a great test for him. And while JJJ had a big night, Pat kept good position on him and forced JJJ into some tough shots (that he made).

I like Pat starting, but I hope Billy stays with subbing him and DD out for Green and one of Alize, Brown or DJJ early.

His high arching rainbow shot that seems to be a swish every time he makes it is very aesthetically pleasing, but I still question if he'll be able to get it off quickly enough to make contested threes on a consistent basis and be more than just a low volume open shooter. I was pleasantly surprised he even played, as I expected management to be extra cautious with him, but it's good to see that we should be at full health for opening night save for Coby.

Other than that, not much to take away from his lone preseason appearance and I expect him to take a few weeks into the season until he's fully back up to speed.