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Options to fix the PF hole

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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#981 » by Wingy » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:00 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
Clocian wrote:
Harrison Barnes has been mentioned in trade rumors for more than a year and there is a "rising belief around the league" that the Sacramento Kings will pull the trigger on a deal by the deadline in February.

Barnes signed a four-year, $85 million deal with the Kings in 2019 as a free agent.

Barnes remains one of the league's better three-and-D small forwards with the ability to also play small ball four. 



https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265444/Rising-Belief-Kings-Will-Trade-Harrison-Barnes-By-Deadline


It never really gets mentioned, but Barnes has championship experience. Adding another guy who can bring that to the table isn't exactly the worst thing.


Raises hand. I've mentioned it a number of times in pro-Barnes posts. I'd certainly welcome the guy (as well as Grant, or some surprise guy under the radar we're not focusing on), but there will be a lot of suitors.

I've thought the Warriors re-acquiring him would be a good fit. Lots of assets. Their "death" lineup would be absolutely bonkers if Klay can get right by the post season.

It wouldn't be the KD days, but still...Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Barnes/Dray...oh my.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#982 » by Wingy » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:21 pm

bad knees wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Green is tiny as a factual matter and is filling in admirably at a position he would never normally play on any team with real postseason aspirations. He’s been great. But he’s not good enough. That isn’t running anyone down.


Green is 6'5", strong, quick, tough-minded, can jump out of the gym, and has a 6'10" wingspan. He certainly is not ideal size for a PF, but it seems a bit of an overstatement to refer to him as "tiny." He will and should continue to see substantial minutes at the 4 even if we bring in a bigger guy.

Is PJ Tucker (6'5") or Jae Crowder (6'6") tiny? MIA and PHX seem to be doing very well with them as starters at the PF position. Green has essentially the same dimensions as them, and while they may have more heft, Javonte is strong and much more athletic.


But who are the centers they’re paired with?
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#983 » by prolific passer » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:24 pm

I remember Giannis just shooting over Crowder in the finals last year.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#984 » by Dan Z » Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:33 pm

ChettheJet wrote:With the hope that Zach is only out a week or so and Caruso comes back quickly, Green and Jones eventually and Williams can show up for the playoffs. I'm willing to consider trading Coby White who 'league sources' say could be available for an upgrade at the 4 for the Bulls.

Upgrade being the key phrase.

I'd be looking at the Wizards. At some point Hachimura will come back, Thomas Bryant is due back soon and they will have way too many players, especially in the front court, making way too much money for a middle of the pack team. Add to that the recent locker room match between Harrell and KCP, they're going to be open to making moves for chemistry and financial considerations

Now it's not like the Bulls can step in and solve all their issues but they could be part of it. So I'm sending White, DJJ and the PORT pick for Kyle Kuzma and one somebody from Hachimura, Harrell, Kispert, Avdija, Todd. No I don't include TRJ because ASH doesn't need more bodies on an already crowded roster. This clears their active overload and saves them a lot of money on Kuzma.

Here's where that PORT pick probably NOT being conveyed this year is important and gains in value. Besides a roster of players under contract WASH has their FRP in 2022 but their lottery protected 2023 pick is due to OKC. So by that time they could clear out the parts of the current roster they don't want and replace their missing 2023 pick. Combine that with the expiring contract of the now injured DJJ and White being up for an extension or he becomes a RFA and they move him the Wiz clear both salary and roster spots

Now the Bulls get the instant upgrade at the PF, plus whoever they get from list of guys off the bench. Yes Kuzma is signed for 2 years plus a player option but he's been playing well enough since leaving LAL to be a key piece for the Bulls.

Right now he starts next to DeRozan and Vucevic. If Billy continues with the early substitution pattern of taking out Demar and Ball it would be Caruso and Dosunmo coming in and Kuzma is more of a scoring factor.

But next year is when this deal really pays off, PW returns and either he or Kuzman starts with DeRozan and Vucevic. When the early substitution comes one of them comes in for DeRozan with Patrick becoming the SF. Later as things shift if Vuc sits down for DeRozan in a small lineup PW and KK become interchangeable 4/5. It also means Caruso plays more minutes at PG and maybe none at PF. Does this put them into the luxury tax? Likely but Reinsdorf has said he'd pay for a championship chance and AK has said he didn't just want a one year shot, he wanted to build a team that would be there every year, which with the length of Kuzma's deal matching Zach, Demar, Lonzo, Alex I think that accomplishes that goal.


Rui and Thomas Bryant just came back off the injury list. My guess is that if they're going to trade anyone that Harrell might be higher on the list than Kuzma (because of the argument Harrell and KCP got in...plus hasn't Harrell been complaining about the amount of touches he gets?).

I'd be hesitant to trade Coby White, especially right now. With Zach being out we'll need his scoring.

If Coby is off the table, and I'm also not willing to trade PW, then I'm not sure what the Portland pick plus DDJ gets the Bulls. I might be willing to add Troy Brown Jr. to a deal, but I don't imagine that the Wizards would want him back right now.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#985 » by samwana » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:46 pm

what about trying to get into facilitating philly and take on tobias harris as another 6-7 forward?
he is 29 and has some good years left. he does a lot of what we need and he has a lot of experience in the playoffs.
i don't know what they would want in return, but if they get what they want elsewhere and need some help, maybe we could steal him from the sixers.. any ideas?

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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#986 » by Bulls2021 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:51 pm

samwana wrote:what about trying to get into facilitating philly and take on tobias harris as another 6-7 forward?
he is 29 and has some good years left. he does a lot of what we need and he has a lot of experience in the playoffs.
i don't know what they would want in return, but if they get what they want elsewhere and need some help, maybe we could steal him from the sixers.. any ideas?

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His contract is awful. Regardless, how do you propose we absorb his 36mil-39mil annual contract? Which players are you giving up to match it?
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#987 » by bad knees » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:23 pm

prolific passer wrote:I remember Giannis just shooting over Crowder in the finals last year.


Giannis scores rather easily on just about every player in the NBA. The objective is not to acquire a Giannis stopper, which does not exist, but rather to have a collection of players who can challenge him and keep him at or below his averages. Green can play a role in that effort.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#988 » by DuckIII » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:40 pm

bad knees wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Green is 6'5", strong, quick, tough-minded, can jump out of the gym, and has a 6'10" wingspan. He certainly is not ideal size for a PF, but it seems a bit of an overstatement to refer to him as "tiny." He will and should continue to see substantial minutes at the 4 even if we bring in a bigger guy.

Is PJ Tucker (6'5") or Jae Crowder (6'6") tiny? MIA and PHX seem to be doing very well with them as starters at the PF position. Green has essentially the same dimensions as them, and while they may have more heft, Javonte is strong and much more athletic.


I personally don't buy Green being 6'5". He seems significantly smaller than Tucker and Crowder. I know he's listed as 6'5" now, but in previous seasons he was listed as 6'4". That's not to take away from his great efforts at the 4, but I do think he's just in a different size and weight class than even your typical small-ball four and eventually - unless we're throwing out what 75 years of basketball has taught us -- that lack of height will catch up with us.


I agree that I would prefer that the Bulls acquire a PF with more size - I've said that on multiple occasions. I just think that some folks, in making that argument, are overstating Green's limitations and understating his strengths. If for some reason the Bulls do not trade for a bigger PF by the deadline, I'll be fine - I imagine that there will be others who will see it as an absolute unmitigated disaster.


If the Bulls don’t pull the trigger on a legitimate upgrade at the 4 before the deadline, I’m one of those (obviously) who will see it as an absolute unmitigated disaster . . . as it regards this postseason. Barring a miracle it caps us as a second round team in what probably will not be a particularly competitive series.

But if Coby and Ayo and the other presumable trade pieces convince AK to think longer term, and AK feels the same way about Pat, then I’d understand. I won’t view that as a disaster for the longer term. And I’m the type of fan who tends to think longer term anyway (in basketball).
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#989 » by PaKii94 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:50 pm

WCS as a waiver signing anyone? I had hopes he'd become a nice defensive center. Haven't seen him play recently. What happened with him?
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#990 » by DuckIII » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:05 am

PaKii94 wrote:WCS as a waiver signing anyone? I had hopes he'd become a nice defensive center. Haven't seen him play recently. What happened with him?


He’s been terrible this year, but yeah we should at least give him a look if he’s interested.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#991 » by jordanwilliams6 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:22 am

[tweet][/tweet]
PaKii94 wrote:WCS as a waiver signing anyone? I had hopes he'd become a nice defensive center. Haven't seen him play recently. What happened with him?

If we move Bradley as a salary filler he’d be a solid option at backup C. As a third string, I’d much rather keep Cook in that role. I was a impressed by the limited action I saw from him.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#992 » by HINrichPolice » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:31 am

Haven't followed the thread, but would love to get Myles Turner or Montrezl Harrell. Any big that brings defense and isn't a liability on offense would do wonders.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#993 » by Bulls2021 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:40 am

HINrichPolice wrote:Haven't followed the thread, but would love to get Myles Turner or Montrezl Harrell. Any big that brings defense and isn't a liability on offense would do wonders.

Isn't Harrell garbage on defense?
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#994 » by Cubfan23 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:24 am

....
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#995 » by Andi Obst » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:17 am

PaKii94 wrote:WCS as a waiver signing anyone? I had hopes he'd become a nice defensive center. Haven't seen him play recently. What happened with him?


He’s completely lost on a basketball court. Has the physical tools, but he just doesn’t understand the game. Not the type of guy I expected AK to sign…which is good.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#996 » by sco » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:00 pm

Now, I'm glad we'll have until the deadline to validate this, but White's and Ayo's trajectories have me rethinking our best approach. The way I see it, we have 6 guys in Lonzo, Zach, DD, Caruso, White and Ayo who can all be counted on for strong contributions for 30MPG+. They should absorb all the minutes at PG, SG and SF. Moreover, Lonzo and DD can probably absorb 5-10 minutes each at PF without us sacrificing anything. IMO, DJJ gives high-level complementary PF production for 20MPG. So what I'm getting at, based on the rotations of the above 7 guys, I don't think we gain much, if anything, in terms of team +/- for 35 mpg of PF play. Now I like Javonte, but the opportunity is replacing his minutes with someone better, but at the cost of losing DJJ's (which I think folks under value vs. the better tier of PF's).

Obviously, the wildcard that isn't mentioned is Pat. Hard to tell at this point what we might get there, and that's the key to whether we make a bigger deal or not. If his timeline is March, and we have a better sense of that at the deadline, I think we are better served with a waiver wire guy or whatever lesser asset that TBJ (plus filler unmentioned guys) can get us than going after a high utilization guy (who may diminish the contributions of guys like Vuc, Zo, Coby and Ayo who get bumped down in terms of offensive involvement).
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#997 » by HomoSapien » Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:43 pm

Not sure if this was posted anywhere:

Chicago still has one potential all-in move up its sleeve, as injured second-year forward Patrick Williams has a mountain of trade value despite being out for the season with a dislocated wrist. Williams was the Pistons' top 2020 NBA draft target at No. 7 before Chicago selected the Florida product at No. 4, and Weaver was known as a huge supporter.

The Bulls have three strong connections to Grant. General manager Marc Eversley overlapped with Grant in Philadelphia, head coach Billy Donovan coached Grant in Oklahoma City, and executive vice president of basketball operations Arturas Karnisovas was part of the Nuggets' brain trust that acquired Grant from the Thunder.

The on-paper fit appears quite clear here too. Grant could plug immediately into the Bulls' starting lineup between DeMar DeRozan and Nikola Vucevic. By the time DeRozan's three-year contract expires after the 2023-24 season, any Grant extension would just be entering its second year.

For Chicago to move Williams, Karnisovas would need absolute confidence Grant is the final ingredient for a championship run. The front office has already mortgaged the majority of its future draft capital, and sending out Williams, Derrick Jones Jr. and the Blazers' protected 2022 first-rounder would lock the Bulls into an inflexible future. At this juncture, Chicago appears uncomfortable with that.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2952559-he-fits-everywhere-inside-the-market-for-nba-trade-deadlines-grand-prize

C. Vuc/Bradley/Simonovic
PF.Grant/Green/McKinnie
SF. DeRozan/TBJ/Hill
SG. LaVine/White/Ayo
PG. Ball/Caruso/Thomas

To me, that looks to be as deep of a team as we can realistically get this season. Grant brings even more defense and versatility to our team, but also can fill in as a scoring option as needed. Losing Williams and DJJ is somewhat of a non-issue this season since both are going through their injury issues.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#998 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:07 pm

Grant is really a no brainer for me.. No doubt, I would try to get him in that package of PWill, TBJ instead of DJJ and Por pick..

Ball, Lavine, DeRozan, Grant, Vooch
Caruso, White, Ayo, DJJ, T.Cook

x - Thomas, Green, Hill, McKinnie, Bradley
Simonovic should be just send to G league.
I much more prefer Tyler Cook over Bradley at this moment as well.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#999 » by StunnerKO » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:34 am

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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#1000 » by MGB8 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:27 am

The Grant rumor article reiterated that Grant wants to be a primary offensive option, not a role player…. I think that explains why Chicago isn’t listed as a destination for him.

Given the Bulls penchant for small ball, I wonder if they would have interest in THT. It would need to be Portland pick plus salary filler, maybe getting a second rounder back. Cam Reddish type comp.

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