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Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition

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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#361 » by coldfish » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:30 pm

d boy gentleman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?


Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. I just think the writing is on the wall. The supermax has not proven to be nearly as effective at restricting player movement as teams wanted though.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#362 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:49 pm

coldfish wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?


Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. I just think the writing is on the wall. The supermax has not proven to be nearly as effective at restricting player movement as teams wanted though.



I would say that this case, it will at the very least be interesting. We lost Melo because we couldn't pay him more the NYK even though we were a better situation. Few things going here, Jokic can make more money other ways in Chicago and he has long term legacy to look at. I am not laying odds on it, because well money is money in the end, but we have to be a serious contender.

Even when we traded for Vuc it was mentioned as a plan. In fact the first joking comments when we hired AK were... maybe he is bringing Jokic. Talk of Lonzo was going on for 2 years before it happened. Crazier things have happened. Honestly this really fits into a long game AK was playing. Isn't this more or less kinda what the nets did, although our team might be better than the nets were?
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#363 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:52 pm

coldfish wrote:
TyrusRose2425 wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?

100%

If he knows he wants to leave, I wonder if he tells the Nuggets this summer so that they get something in return for him. Vucevic + 1st(s) this summer maybe for him.


With one year left on his deal, he could basically pull a AD and say "I'm going to Chicago".



Lets get the Ball tampering situation settled before we get into another one lol.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#364 » by kodo » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:37 pm

d boy gentleman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?


Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


The difference isn't all that much because Jokic won't be out on the streets unemployed from the NBA in 4 years. After 4 years he'll sign another contract, which will start with a much higher salary cap.

The real factor is endorsements.
Currently Jokic makes $750k in total endorsement money as MVP.
Derrick Rose signed a $300M deal with Adidas alone, not counting other endorsements, as a Chicago MVP caliber player.

Jokic won't get Rose money, but even assuming he'll get Anthony Davis money that's $10M per year. Zion gets $13M+ in endorsements, per year.

Zach Lavine signed a $35M / 4 year endorsement deal as the best Chicago player in 2017. He averaged 16 ppg in 2017. Jokic as MVP and possible champion in Chicago would make considerably more.

Bottom line, if Jokic was just after the most money he'd probably leave Denver. Even if not Chicago, but somewhere. But I don't know if Jokic is primarily doing this for the money.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#365 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:26 pm

kodo wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?


Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


The difference isn't all that much because Jokic won't be out on the streets unemployed from the NBA in 4 years. After 4 years he'll sign another contract, which will start with a much higher salary cap.

The real factor is endorsements.
Currently Jokic makes $750k in total endorsement money as MVP.
Derrick Rose signed a $300M deal with Adidas alone, not counting other endorsements, as a Chicago MVP caliber player.

Jokic won't get Rose money, but even assuming he'll get Anthony Davis money that's $10M per year. Zion gets $13M+ in endorsements, per year.

Zach Lavine signed a $35M / 4 year endorsement deal as the best Chicago player in 2017. He averaged 16 ppg in 2017. Jokic as MVP and possible champion in Chicago would make considerably more.

Bottom line, if Jokic was just after the most money he'd probably leave Denver. Even if not Chicago, but somewhere. But I don't know if Jokic is primarily doing this for the money.



For a player like Jokic, the international brand of the Bulls is likely more valuable than it is to others to an extent too. So there are a lot of reasons this could work.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#366 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:27 pm

So Lebron got one game and Stewart got 2. Seems pretty fair actually.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#367 » by dougthonus » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:24 am

coldfish wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?


Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. I just think the writing is on the wall. The supermax has not proven to be nearly as effective at restricting player movement as teams wanted though.


Who has left a supermax on the table? There's certainly been lots of problems with it, not sure how may guys didn't take it though. Think AD?

Granted, I don't think the Bulls could sign him as a FA regardless. I can't imagine how we'd be far enough under the cap, it would need to be a trade, and also hard to imagine how we'd have enough assets to do that.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#368 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:47 am

dougthonus wrote:
coldfish wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. I just think the writing is on the wall. The supermax has not proven to be nearly as effective at restricting player movement as teams wanted though.


Who has left a supermax on the table? There's certainly been lots of problems with it, not sure how may guys didn't take it though. Think AD?

Granted, I don't think the Bulls could sign him as a FA regardless. I can't imagine how we'd be far enough under the cap, it would need to be a trade, and also hard to imagine how we'd have enough assets to do that.


On face value I 100% agree with your assessment, but JJ Polk seems to be some kind of magical wizard so far. It seems like this FO actually game plans for things like this instead of just saying we have space now come to us. By no means do I think it is a likelihood, but it certainly is a possibility. Eversley might be able to pull Nike strings for an international shoe contract out some BS like that. It's questionable on ethics for sure but so are most NBA deals.

The fact they pulled of a record amount of sign and trades just gives me confidence they can make some magic happen. They re operating more like the Lakers and Nets where they will make it happen if need be. Still yet to be proven if Reinsdorfs will pay, but once again we have no reason to believe they won't right now. Everything changed, we hired a real coach, which was formerly a big no no. We are getting FA's making trades and not just mortgaging our future on picks and value salaries. Pretty sure the REinsdorfs are seeing better numbers, I know mercy is selling better and the tickets have gotten hotter. As long as AK promises to keep them in the black and he has a plan I think they will sign off. These are not our Chicago Bulls. This is closer to Krause than it is to Paxson.

They saw that they couldn't milk the Dynasty money any longer, so they moved into the modern era, which by all counts is still pretty profitable, even for owners who have way more initial investment in a team than the Reinsdorf's do. I make no promises mind you but I am way more open to this idea than I was a year ago. I mean you could literally feel the change when they hired AK, but we rejected it because we had been under such horrid times for so long. How long did it take for Germany to feel right after the wall came down? I doubt it was overnight. We have deep basketball scars that need to heal.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#369 » by coldfish » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:20 am

dougthonus wrote:
coldfish wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. I just think the writing is on the wall. The supermax has not proven to be nearly as effective at restricting player movement as teams wanted though.


Who has left a supermax on the table? There's certainly been lots of problems with it, not sure how may guys didn't take it though. Think AD?

Granted, I don't think the Bulls could sign him as a FA regardless. I can't imagine how we'd be far enough under the cap, it would need to be a trade, and also hard to imagine how we'd have enough assets to do that.


AD, Lebron, Durant, Kyrie . . . I seriously can't think of everyone who has moved recently using the various tools at a player's disposal to change teams when they decide to. The supermax isn't stopping player movement like what was implied by the poster or intended by the rule itself.

To a large degree, I still think a lot of the people on the Bulls board are suffering from PTSD / Stockholm syndrome type stuff from GarPax. I don't think you guys will ever truly accept that you can make moves when you want to make moves and that assets are not the limiting factor. Its player desire and cooperation.

And please, please, please don't force me to dig up all of the posts after the Vucevic trade where I was saying "the Bulls can still do more" and others were all "Pffft, this is it. Chicago just shot their wad on Nikola Vucevic."

Side rant: What really, really screwed over GarPax was their desire for flexibility. Ironically, their desire to be under the cap invariably caused them to overvalue low priced young players and take on crappy, overpriced expiring deals tying their hands as far as tried. Then when they got under the cap, they created more crappy, overpriced contracts (Wallace, Boozer). As long as you have good contracts, you can jump under the cap when you want. Think Chicago can trade Demar in his last year to a team under the cap? Ball? Caruso?
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#370 » by d boy gentleman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:24 am

kodo wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Jokic is a UFA the same season as Vucevic. Does someone want to make the "welcome to Chicago Joker!" thread now or should we wait a little?

Everyone knows that is the plan, right?


Yeah, he re-signs with Denver for the Supermax and about 50 million more than the Bulls can offer :dontknow:


The difference isn't all that much because Jokic won't be out on the streets unemployed from the NBA in 4 years. After 4 years he'll sign another contract, which will start with a much higher salary cap.

The real factor is endorsements.
Currently Jokic makes $750k in total endorsement money as MVP.
Derrick Rose signed a $300M deal with Adidas alone, not counting other endorsements, as a Chicago MVP caliber player.

Jokic won't get Rose money, but even assuming he'll get Anthony Davis money that's $10M per year. Zion gets $13M+ in endorsements, per year.

Zach Lavine signed a $35M / 4 year endorsement deal as the best Chicago player in 2017. He averaged 16 ppg in 2017. Jokic as MVP and possible champion in Chicago would make considerably more.

Bottom line, if Jokic was just after the most money he'd probably leave Denver. Even if not Chicago, but somewhere. But I don't know if Jokic is primarily doing this for the money.


He will eligible to sign a 5 year 241 million dollar deal if he stays with the Nuggets. I don't think that he'll get 4 years 200 if he signed with the Bulls. I think it would be less than that
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#371 » by Repeat 3-peat » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 am

At the half, Bucks lead the Magic 77-36. Mo Wagner lead the magic with 8 points.
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Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#372 » by The Force. » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:27 am

Now it’s 84-38


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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#373 » by dougthonus » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 am

coldfish wrote:AD, Lebron, Durant, Kyrie . . . I seriously can't think of everyone who has moved recently using the various tools at a player's disposal to change teams when they decide to. The supermax isn't stopping player movement like what was implied by the poster or intended by the rule itself.


You are right, I misunderstood when reading about it and thought you had to be with your draft team.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#374 » by NecessaryEvil » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:04 am

Let's quit the shenanigans, everyone knows Jokic is headed to Chicago.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#375 » by BullChit » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:22 am

is it tampering if we start wining and dining the Jokic brothers now?
Look, it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#376 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:30 am

Repeat 3-peat wrote:At the half, Bucks lead the Magic 77-36. Mo Wagner lead the magic with 8 points.



God I wish we had WCJ and Wagner. So I wasn’t a fan of Vuc but I like those two less. Franz I’ll, give some leash too honestly he might become a nice player but in my book if it cost a pick and nothing in return to get rid of WCJ, I was all in. Getting an allstar in return well that was a bonus. Ughhh since Dougie I have disliked GarPax’s drafts. Well maybe since Tyrus. Not that they were bums but at the spot we picked at they shouldn’t all have been underwhelming.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#377 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:36 am

NecessaryEvil wrote:Let's quit the shenanigans, everyone knows Jokic is headed to Chicago.



Denver has a down pointing arrow and Chicago has an up pointing arrow right now. So maybe? I mean if anywhere we make sense. Far far far from a given though. AK master plan? Maybe he convinced BD on that and that’s what changed his mind? Maybe that’s what tampering charges are being brought up? Ha!
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#378 » by bearadonisdna » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:40 am

Somebody gotta stop Phoenix . Every win over double digits in their streak just makes them the favorite for the title

Forgot about GS for a minute but right now Phoenix going for favorite 1B
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#379 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:49 am

bearadonisdna wrote:Somebody gotta stop Phoenix . Every win over double digits in their streak just makes them the favorite for the title

Forgot about GS for a minute but right now Phoenix going for favorite 1B



Both those teams look really good. I love the makeup of Phoenix. They were a lot of fun to watch last year in the playoffs. I can’t imagine the Lakers want to see them again. GSW is just a good team and if Klay is back and fully healthy by playoffs watch out. They have OPJ and Wiggins playing to potential and who says Wiseman can’t find his stride at some point. He doesn’t have to be amazing just has to help out against AD, Jokic and Ayton. Not beat them just minimize them a bit.
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Re: Around The NBA : 21-22 Edition 

Post#380 » by Bulls2021 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:16 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
coldfish wrote:
I'm not going to make a big deal out of this. I just think the writing is on the wall. The supermax has not proven to be nearly as effective at restricting player movement as teams wanted though.


Who has left a supermax on the table? There's certainly been lots of problems with it, not sure how may guys didn't take it though. Think AD?

Granted, I don't think the Bulls could sign him as a FA regardless. I can't imagine how we'd be far enough under the cap, it would need to be a trade, and also hard to imagine how we'd have enough assets to do that.


On face value I 100% agree with your assessment, but JJ Polk seems to be some kind of magical wizard so far. It seems like this FO actually game plans for things like this instead of just saying we have space now come to us. By no means do I think it is a likelihood, but it certainly is a possibility. Eversley might be able to pull Nike strings for an international shoe contract out some BS like that. It's questionable on ethics for sure but so are most NBA deals.

The fact they pulled of a record amount of sign and trades just gives me confidence they can make some magic happen. They re operating more like the Lakers and Nets where they will make it happen if need be. Still yet to be proven if Reinsdorfs will pay, but once again we have no reason to believe they won't right now. Everything changed, we hired a real coach, which was formerly a big no no. We are getting FA's making trades and not just mortgaging our future on picks and value salaries. Pretty sure the REinsdorfs are seeing better numbers, I know mercy is selling better and the tickets have gotten hotter. As long as AK promises to keep them in the black and he has a plan I think they will sign off. These are not our Chicago Bulls. This is closer to Krause than it is to Paxson.

They saw that they couldn't milk the Dynasty money any longer, so they moved into the modern era, which by all counts is still pretty profitable, even for owners who have way more initial investment in a team than the Reinsdorf's do. I make no promises mind you but I am way more open to this idea than I was a year ago. I mean you could literally feel the change when they hired AK, but we rejected it because we had been under such horrid times for so long. How long did it take for Germany to feel right after the wall came down? I doubt it was overnight. We have deep basketball scars that need to heal.

Lolol alright, I think we're going a bit far with comparing AKME replacing Garpax to the Berlin Wall being torn down. Our "basketball scars" will be much easier to heal.

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