Just to move this to the right thread...
dougthonus wrote:I don't recall reading anything about WCJ having a bad attitude or being selfish. He may have needed a change of scenery but he very well may not have.
I'm not going to waste my time giving you links and quotes. His issues with the team were well documented here and discussed at length.
Okay. I mean, I don't recall that happening in a way that landed on he has a bad attitude and is selfish. Nor in a few google searches could I find any such thing. I mean I don't want you to waste your time searching over triviality discussions like this either, but I really don't recall anything like that at all.
The statement is ludicrous. I mean you could have just moved WCJ for draft assets and kept your picks and been a million times better off than you if Vuc never played another game.
Nope. The Bulls were on the tank treadmill and had been so for years. The Vucevic move was what got the team off that treadmill which lead to Ball, Caruso and Derozan, all of which had other teams pursuing them.
Don't think you needed Vuc to get any of those guys. Ball wanted the Chicago market, the Bulls offered DeRozan something like 70M more than the next best known offer.
I would gladly trade Wendell, Franz Wagner and a late 1st to get off that treadmill.
Sure, so would I if that were true. I don't even remotely believe that this is a reasonable equation you've put together.
That's a strawman. I very specifically said "no one saw him becoming an elite outside shooter". If you did, quote yourself. We both know you didn't. Don't make my point something other than what it was.
If your point is that it was clear Wendell had a good chance to improve a lot, but just not clear he would do so by shooting, then sure I agree.
I believed in Wendell in a general sense because a young guy that was viewed as a good potential two way player that missed multiple off-seasons and tons of time to injury still had a very good chance to improve relative to a normal player at his age. I didn't predict specifically which way that would take place, but it isn't shocking to me that would have improved shooting nor that he improved at all.
I was a Wendell fan early in his career and I saw his potential but it was clear that the tank treadmill was destroying his attitude and derailing his career. As long as he stayed on Chicago in the environment that existed, he was never going to amount to much.
Maybe, maybe not. It's unknowable and unprovable either way. I don't see it that way though. Lots of teams that are bad can get better without shipping out nearly every single player on the roster. They were going to have huge turnover regardless. I don't think keeping WCJ vs Coby, as an example, was going to move the needle on whether the culture got better.
Maybe this is all true. I'm not in the locker room. Maybe Carter was a selfish prick or a mope or a guy whom had a bad vibe or some other thing that required he specifically leave. I've not really seen any indication of that though.