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what can Coby white and Pwill bring back?

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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#21 » by DuckIII » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:39 pm

Chi town wrote:Ayo has the highest trade value of them all.

I think it will be a buyout.


No he doesn’t. Maybe he should. But he doesn’t.

You think the collective of GMs who passed on him 37 times is now convinced, after 16 games, he has more trade value than two recent lottery picks? Organizations don’t pivot that quickly.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#22 » by HomoSapien » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:48 pm

DuckIII wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:You’re probably getting a Boucher level role player or a veteran on a losing team that wants out. Both currently have the lowest trade value of their short careers.


So does Boucher. He sucks this year. What happened?


I asked Raptor fans what was going on with him recently. Apparently he was injured and missed training camp and hasn’t found a rhythm. He’s also playing PF this year which has taken away his strengths against slower centers.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#23 » by Krazykiwi » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:05 am

Would Pascal Siakim fit on this Bulls team? his value has plummed this season.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#24 » by Krazykiwi » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:07 am

ChettheJet wrote:You have to realize that the Bulls with the lineup they have, even with Vuc on the shelf, can really score as a starting 5. Lavine and DeRozan can easily pump in 30, Ball can get 25, they're getting 8-10 from Bradley and Green. So Vuc returns and he's a 20 point guy, why are you trading two young guys for another 20 point scorer? Whoever it is at the 4 if he gets 20, the other 4 starters can't get their average, they just can't all score 20-30 in the minutes they're playing. Nobody you bring in is going to willingly give up his stats to help a team he just got traded to. You see that or you don't know the NBA in 2021.

Williams best fills the bill as a starting 4 with the other 4 current starters. He can hit an open shot, he rebounds and plays defense, as he plays and develops he'll find ways to score more as the veterans get more comfortable with him.

You should be noticing that Caruso isn't a great scorer, he passes well, he's a great defender, but he can't pour in 20 points. Coby White next to him off the bench, or playing with Lonzo or Lavine is a guy who can score the basketball, which you need when Tony Bradley and DJJ are on the floor.

So all these trades that people keep bringing up are often a balance on talent and salary but when you're building a 8-10 man rotation getting quality minutes from your bench players, they just don't help the Bulls.


The Bulls aren't really looking for a 20 point scorer. They need a Lonzo Ball like type of PF. can do a little bit of everything especially defending.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#25 » by Senor Chang » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:50 am

Being open to trading Coby and Paw doesn't mean we've given up on them. It means we don't have time to develop them. Right now our window is Zach's prime. Once he declines then we can rebuild again. I still have high hopes for Coby and Paw but they simply don't fit our timeline right now. It's time to go all-in while Zach is still a beast IMHO

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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#26 » by Chi town » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:13 am

DuckIII wrote:
Chi town wrote:Ayo has the highest trade value of them all.

I think it will be a buyout.


No he doesn’t. Maybe he should. But he doesn’t.

You think the collective of GMs who passed on him 37 times is now convinced, after 16 games, he has more trade value than two recent lottery picks? Organizations don’t pivot that quickly.


Nope. You’re right. My post was referring to when I think a trade would actually happen which IMO would be the trade deadline.

Ayo’s trajectory would have him as a fine chip come the deadline.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#27 » by PlayerUp » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:43 am

In terms of trade value it goes:

1. Patrick Williams
2. Coby White
3. Ayo

All have positive value.

Bulls are going to play this out and see what happens here. Have to give these guys time to adjust. If we make any move, it will be deadline but it won't surprise me if AKME just play this out this season, focus on buyouts after deadline as historically bigman are bought out after deadline and make a move in the offseason.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#28 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:11 am

I hope Ayo isn't traded. He's the hometown kid and he's playing really well. It's a feel-good story, and he's a value contract right now.

I'm starting to think the one mistake AKME made this past offseason was only signing Ayo to two years when other second-rounders were getting three and four.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#29 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:29 am

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:I hope Ayo isn't traded. He's the hometown kid and he's playing really well. It's a feel-good story, and he's a value contract right now.

I'm starting to think the one mistake AKME made this past offseason was only signing Ayo to two years when other second-rounders were getting three and four.


Don’t give a crap about hometown roots, but Iike him.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#30 » by dougthonus » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:16 pm

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:I hope Ayo isn't traded. He's the hometown kid and he's playing really well. It's a feel-good story, and he's a value contract right now.

I'm starting to think the one mistake AKME made this past offseason was only signing Ayo to two years when other second-rounders were getting three and four.


The ideal contract for a 2nd rounder is three years at the vet min, because 2nd rounders are UFAs if they sign for four and RFAs if they sign for three. That's what they gave Simonovic, and you sure wish they had flipped those two now.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#31 » by GoBlue72391 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:52 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Devinpo wrote:
DuckIII wrote:I cannot imagine anyone offering anything for those 2 that is worth more than their potential. Both of them most certainly have useless trade value right now.

Flipping the question, if you were another team what would you offer? I wouldn’t offer anything more than role players. And we don’t need role players.


Tbh I don’t think pwill can reach his potential because he just doesn’t have that dog in him. Ayo is playing fearless and has brought more to the table than pat has. Coby is rusty but we know when he gets hot he is a poor man’s Ben Gordon. I haven’t given up on Coby but I’m willing to let pwill go.


I’m not giving up Williams. He has played 1 season.

I haven't given up on him either, and while I was never all that high on him, I am open to moving him if the right deal comes along. Of course it won't though, considering he's likely out for the rest of the season.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#32 » by GoBlue72391 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 pm

sco wrote:
Devinpo wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
I’m not giving up Williams. He has played 1 season.



That’s true. I’m most likely wrong about my assessment on him. I hope he does prove me wrong he just seems very timid. I wish he played with confidence like a 2nd rounder like ayo

To be fair to Pat, if he were out there with our bench guys, I would expect him to be chucking up shots with reckless abandon too. Not to take anything away from Ayo, because he's played above expectations.

I honestly have zero faith that, even if he were coming off the bench, PWill would be "chucking up shots with reckless abandon." I think we would probably see more flashes and slightly more aggression, but overall I think he would be mostly the same player off the bench that he is when he starts.

I also think it's inaccurate to describe Ayo's play as "chucking up shots with reckless abandon." I actually think he's a very heady player.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#33 » by Devinpo » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:14 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
sco wrote:
Devinpo wrote:

That’s true. I’m most likely wrong about my assessment on him. I hope he does prove me wrong he just seems very timid. I wish he played with confidence like a 2nd rounder like ayo

To be fair to Pat, if he were out there with our bench guys, I would expect him to be chucking up shots with reckless abandon too. Not to take anything away from Ayo, because he's played above expectations.

I honestly have zero faith that, even if he were coming off the bench, PWill would be "chucking up shots with reckless abandon." I think we would probably see more flashes and slightly more aggression, but overall I think he would be mostly the same player off the bench that he is when he starts.

I also think it's inaccurate to describe Ayo's play as "chucking up shots with reckless abandon." I actually think he's a very heady player.



Ayo is looking like our gem. Deff playing above expectations very early in his young career
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#34 » by sco » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:45 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
sco wrote:
Devinpo wrote:

That’s true. I’m most likely wrong about my assessment on him. I hope he does prove me wrong he just seems very timid. I wish he played with confidence like a 2nd rounder like ayo

To be fair to Pat, if he were out there with our bench guys, I would expect him to be chucking up shots with reckless abandon too. Not to take anything away from Ayo, because he's played above expectations.

I honestly have zero faith that, even if he were coming off the bench, PWill would be "chucking up shots with reckless abandon." I think we would probably see more flashes and slightly more aggression, but overall I think he would be mostly the same player off the bench that he is when he starts.

I also think it's inaccurate to describe Ayo's play as "chucking up shots with reckless abandon." I actually think he's a very heady player.

You really don't think that Pat wouldn't be taking a materially higher % of available shots if he was coming off the bench? I'll be optimistic that he comes back healthy enough to prove he's not the guy you think he is.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#35 » by NZB2323 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:40 pm

Senor Chang wrote:Being open to trading Coby and Paw doesn't mean we've given up on them. It means we don't have time to develop them. Right now our window is Zach's prime. Once he declines then we can rebuild again. I still have high hopes for Coby and Paw but they simply don't fit our timeline right now. It's time to go all-in while Zach is still a beast IMHO

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Zach Lavine is 26, and we've seen from NBA history that you don't need all the players on your team to all be the same age.

Just look at the success Phoenix had last year with CP3(36), Devin Booker(25), and DeAndre Ayton(23). The Hawks did well with Trae Young(22) and Bogdon(28). Brook Lopez is 6 years older than Giannis. In the Bubble the Lakers had Lebron(36) and Davis(27).

The trio in NBA history that has won the most games is Duncan, Manu, and Parker. They won their first championship together when they were 26, 25, 20, with a 37 year old center, and they won their last championship together when they were 37, 36, and 31 with a 22 year old small forward.

Magic and Kareem won 5 championships together and they're 12 year apart.

I mean, if we could get Bradley Beal for Coby White or Patrick Williams you absolutely do it, but we'd probably get a bench player back in a trade, which wouldn't be worth it.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#36 » by jordanwilliams6 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:23 pm

It's a difficult situation with PWill. On one hand he's probably a current negative on the floor but still has high trade value and on the other hand his potential skilset is almost a perfect fit on this roster.

- Low usage
- Great 3 point shooter
- Interchangeable between 3/4
- Size & athleticism to 'matchup' on Durant, Giannis, Lebron etc.

If his defense continues to develop and he can become more of an interior presence on that end, he could be an absolutely fantastic role player. He will need to improve his rebounding though.
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Re: what can Coby white and Pwill bring back? 

Post#37 » by Madd Squabbles » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:41 pm

I believe that White can be traded for Rui Hachimura of the Wizards once he gets more solid play under him. The Wizards have like 5 NBA starting-caliber power forwards on that team and they are playing Raul Neto big minutes at guard and I don't even think he belongs in the NBA.

Hachimura is currently not playing for them.

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