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PG: Did they know there was a game tonight?

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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#61 » by Jeffster81 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:25 pm

I'm not going to worry about any individual loss until it starts becoming a trend. Until then, bad night and move on.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#62 » by Ctownbulls » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 pm

BloodyQ wrote:Team needs to go on a winning streak at some point.

Can't just continue this win 3 straight lose 1 pattern.
Why not?

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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#63 » by League Circles » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:38 pm

I'd like to see us bring in Ersan Ilyasova
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#64 » by sco » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:41 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

Pure speculation but I think it was an assessment game. I might be crazy. They want to see what white has and to move on from him or not. I mean why was Dotson up for this if not an assessment game. Why did Marko finally play. You could tell from the jump and AC sitting that this wasn’t a game they cared about. Looks like AK is making decisions to me. Once again just speculating. I could be way off.


I don’t think they are looking to move on from Coby. We need his offense badly off the bench. Ayo starting would not have made a lick of difference tonight either.



True Ayo wouldn’t have made a difference. I think they were still “testing” him though. Be it coaching to make him improve or seeing where he is at. He surely isn’t useless but if he netted something better in a trade they would be all over it. I don’t think he is a bum but he is one of the few assets we have in the hopper right now. Well assets we would trade at the very least.

Related but a small side point, last year “everyone’s was available. This year the list is much much smaller. That in itself is a huge improvement in my mind.

I knew that we were gonna lose this unless we could make our 3's because of Turner's shot blocking prowess.

I think Billy thought Coby might be able to build on his prior good game and still have energy to play B2B's because he hasn't played much this season. Couple that with what most thought was a likely loss, it seemed like a low risk gamble. That said, Coby showed that his last game was not likely to repeated most nights.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#65 » by Ice Man » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:52 pm

When Justin Holiday hit those initial 3s, I figured this was a karma loss. Justin owes this board a few lumps given his 2018 treatment. Yeah, sure enough, it was a karma loss and then some. Onto the next game.

I'd like to see Coby off the bench, not as a starter. Billy should have replaced Caruso with another tiger.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#66 » by FriedRise » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:01 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
Repeat 3-peat wrote:It was a loss right from the jump. 7 games in 10 days and a day after a grind out win vs the Knicks, they had nothing in the tank. The Pacers just out sized the Bulls, 59 rebounds to 38. Even with Vuc coming back this still needs to be addressed. Also, I didn't feel that Coby should've started. Start Ayo or Troy Brown. Someone to replace Caruso's physicality on the perimeter

Next two games are @Rockets and @Magic. No let downs, get those two wins and then Miami comes to Chicago, which should be a great and physical game.



They folded this game by not playing AC or Vuc. The team knew it and they played as such. It was a rest game or so it appears. Like Portland they didn’t really care about this game for better or worse. With Coby, they were giving Vet respect, and seeing what he has. I mean they played Dotson and Marko. They were testing the ranks to see what they can do. Honestly I haven’t seen a team throw a game like this in Chicago for a little while. I mean we have lost some like this but that was just bad teams. This wasn’t even an effort. I will assume myself personally that this was planned, unless the wheels fall off. Last season was a whole lot of this, testing to see what this team could do and they made changes. Maybe this was an assessment game and a chance to rest? Maybe not but I will wait and see. I’ve been impressed so far with this new look Bulls so I will give them some leash at this point. They clearly are not the same Bulls team as we have seen in the past.


Oh yes, they were ready for this L even before tipoff. They activated Dotson, Marko, and Cook; you don't do that when you're looking to be competitive and not planning to lose. It was a load management game.

I mostly just felt bad for the fans who paid good money and made the trip to the UC to watch a planned blowout lol.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#67 » by dougthonus » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:04 pm

BloodyQ wrote:Team needs to go on a winning streak at some point.

Can't just continue this win 3 straight lose 1 pattern.


:rofl:

This team isn't a dynasty caliber squad. If they win 50 games this year, we should all be ecstatic and they're on pace for 54 playing a harder than average schedule.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#68 » by DuckIII » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:28 pm

My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#69 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:38 pm

DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.



I don’t think they love Coby. I think they are trying to figure out what they got though. Either for trade or if he is worth fitting on this team. If not injured he was likely jettisoned after last season along with literally everyone else not named Zach. The last Gar Pax hold over. Since he got hurt, they couldn’t, and his skill set is a need so they are checking it out. They threw this game away from the start it looked like. It was a good time to see what he had. I don’t think Ayo is going to be hurt over this, i think this team has a pretty good culture and maybe not BD directly but some one on the team likely explained what and why. Also as you said Ayo is tough. This didn’t feel like a punishment. In fact starting a guy on a game you are planning to throw (hi Windy City bulls players) is more insulting. I would bet if it wasn’t an off night Ayo would have gotten the start.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#70 » by Ice Man » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:49 pm

DuckIII wrote:I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.


Yep. Tactics and plays and whatnot, whatever. Coaches earn their pay by identifying who should be playing and what their roles should be, along with overseeing the personal dynamics.

As for how the Bulls are handling Coby, I'm not worried. In the short term, I scratch my head at some of Billy/AK's decisions, but when I see where we are now, as opposed to 18 months ago, it all makes sense. As Michael wrote, soon enough they will either figure out how to use Coby in a way that helps this team, or they will move him.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#71 » by dougthonus » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:50 pm

DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Without knowing what Coby is doing it practice, it's hard for me to get around to your view. Coby playing at pre-injury level last year is a better player than Ayo right now. So I don't believe Ayo has fairly passed him. I think it's reasonable for him to be ahead of Ayo in the rotation until Ayo proves he's better than pre-injury Coby or Coby has played enough minutes that you realize pre-injury Coby isn't going to show up any time soon. It's not been enough games/time to make that assessment on Coby.

I thought it would have been a mistake to go with either guy and would have gone back to Javonte Green or DJj instead. Caruso wasn't in there because four guards were killing it, he was in there because defensively he could impact the game enough to make up for being small. Coby clearly can't do that, so starting him was a mistake. I agree that Ayo had a better chance of the two in filling the Caruso role though.

Your concerns about Ayo having a huge problem with this are likely unfounded (as you also agree), but if they were real problems it would be a massive red flag on Ayo from a character/attitude position. Again, I would be shocked if it's a problem though, nothing I've seen from him would make me remotely think this is a concern.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#72 » by GoBlue72391 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:02 pm

BloodyQ wrote:Team needs to go on a winning streak at some point.

Can't just continue this win 3 straight lose 1 pattern.

Uhh...why not?
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#73 » by FriedRise » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:12 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
BloodyQ wrote:Team needs to go on a winning streak at some point.

Can't just continue this win 3 straight lose 1 pattern.

Uhh...why not?


You can tell that this fanbase has gotten spoiled that we're complaining about a 61-win pace. I get what he's saying (it's annoying to keep losing a game after every 3 wins... why can't we be like Phoenix with their 13-game winning streak?), but at the same time a 3-1 still means winning 75% of your game!
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#74 » by ChettheJet » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:19 pm

Every team comes out flat and loses big, good teams rarely and we've seen bad Bulls teams that did this every week.

The Pacers basically play 2 centers and the Bulls currently have a backup center in Bradley. This was the wrong team to try and fight with DJJ at the 5 and the tri color mob of Green, White and Brown fouling at the 4. All Caruso could have done was get 6 fouls. You jut can't do it unless you shoot 55% as a team and they didn't shoot very well. With Vuc and PW this is a game they can win, they needed to be fully loaded
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#75 » by StephenAA » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:44 pm

Wingy wrote:
BullChit wrote:The biggest positive coming out of this game is we no longer have to entertain any "trade Coby, TBJ and filler for Myles Turner" ideas.

Because Indiana certainly wont!!


But don’t forget Pat Williams!!!

I’d fire all our remaining bullets to get Turner...meaning both remaining 1sts, Pat, Coby, and Stacey King. Still don’t think Indy would bite.


*
Turner is the perfect CENTER for this team - hence, you move Vuc also...

Or do you play Vuc and Turner together??

If Indiana is still below 500 at the trade deadline, they may decide to make some significant changes...

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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#76 » by The Force. » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:46 pm

ChettheJet wrote:Every team comes out flat and loses big, good teams rarely and we've seen bad Bulls teams that did this every week.

The Pacers basically play 2 centers and the Bulls currently have a backup center in Bradley. This was the wrong team to try and fight with DJJ at the 5 and the tri color mob of Green, White and Brown fouling at the 4. All Caruso could have done was get 6 fouls. You jut can't do it unless you shoot 55% as a team and they didn't shoot very well. With Vuc and PW this is a game they can win, they needed to be fully loaded


If we go into the postseason with the roster as-is, I would be very worried about matching up with Philly, Milwaukee, or Indiana.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#77 » by My2CentsR » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:49 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:Team came out flat from tired legs.
Got abused on the boards.
Could not get enough stops.
Could not make buckets when they got stops.

Awful game all and all. We need Vuc and Caruso back. And a PF who can make an impact.



AC has been hurt for a few games it was a wise choice. Let Vuc get back in some shape too since sitting. It was a smart loss as long as the effort is back soon. The next two, we are going to be gunned at because of our current status but we MUST be all cylinders firing for Miami. That is our real test right now.


Yeah, I've been noticing AC shaking out his wrist every now and then for at least two games. Don't love the loss, but it'll be more fun to see what they can do against Miami with full effort and all hands on deck.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#78 » by FriedRise » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:11 pm

The Force. wrote:
ChettheJet wrote:Every team comes out flat and loses big, good teams rarely and we've seen bad Bulls teams that did this every week.

The Pacers basically play 2 centers and the Bulls currently have a backup center in Bradley. This was the wrong team to try and fight with DJJ at the 5 and the tri color mob of Green, White and Brown fouling at the 4. All Caruso could have done was get 6 fouls. You jut can't do it unless you shoot 55% as a team and they didn't shoot very well. With Vuc and PW this is a game they can win, they needed to be fully loaded


If we go into the postseason with the roster as-is, I would be very worried about matching up with Philly, Milwaukee, or Indiana.


There's just no way AKMEBD watch the games and think our lack of size and shooting is fine. We struggle anytime we face teams with a scoring big (or two) AND whenever our opponent plays zone defense. Putting Lonzo, Caruso, or DJJ on a big works in short stretches, but it can blow up rather easily when coaches work to gameplan and exploit your weaknesses. In the playoffs if we match up with any of those teams, we might as well give their guards the series off because the gameplan to let their bigs outwork us will just be too easy.

Meanwhile, we have a plethora of wings who look and play very similarly. I think some sort of a consolidation trade has to be coming by the deadline.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#79 » by Ice Man » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:18 pm

FriedRise wrote:Meanwhile, we have a plethora of wings who look and play very similarly. I think some sort of a consolidation trade has to be coming by the deadline.


We need two of Ayo, DJJ, Green, and Troy Brown.The other two are redundant, barring injury.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#80 » by Wingy » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:38 pm

StephenAA wrote:
Wingy wrote:
BullChit wrote:The biggest positive coming out of this game is we no longer have to entertain any "trade Coby, TBJ and filler for Myles Turner" ideas.

Because Indiana certainly wont!!


But don’t forget Pat Williams!!!

I’d fire all our remaining bullets to get Turner...meaning both remaining 1sts, Pat, Coby, and Stacey King. Still don’t think Indy would bite.


*
Turner is the perfect CENTER for this team - hence, you move Vuc also...

Or do you play Vuc and Turner together??

If Indiana is still below 500 at the trade deadline, they may decide to make some significant changes...

AA


I’d play him at the 4 with Vuc like he does with Sabonis, but that’s just me. Would bring a lot of lineup possibilities, and provide insurance for Vuc going down.

Alas, I actually like Indy. No Zach Lavine-type talents, but a smaller market that has put together a team of a bunch of very good to excellent players that aren’t quite all star* level. If they get Warren back eventually and stay healthy, I’d expect them in the playoffs. I think that means no Turner for us even if we had better assets.

Edit: * No disrespect to Sabonis who is an all star. He just doesn’t seem like the take a game over offensively type star player from the times I’ve watched him. Gets it done via all around game, but chances of game-changing a playoff series by himself seem slim.

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