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PG: Did they know there was a game tonight?

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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#81 » by Wingy » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:47 pm

DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Picking up from the other thread, and adding to your comment - I think they’re trying to re-establish his play as fast as possible, collateral damage on a few losses be damned in order to pump him up as a trade deadline asset.

As for Ayo, he seems like a humble rookie and great kid, and it may burn him inside a little - but I’d bet strongly he’ll just take it in stride and let it motivate him to keep improving. Besides, it’s likely short term and neither will start once Vuc/Caruso return.

Also, Ayo’s surely seen Coby play the past two years being a Chicago kid, and knowing what he’s capable of, and seeing him be one of the main reasons we’ve won games at times. I highly doubt he’s only judging Coby based on a couple of games knowing he’s coming back from injury.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#82 » by FriedRise » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:51 pm

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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#83 » by kodo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Really I think the only thing I would have done different as Billy is DNP all the starters along with Caruso. A massive WC road trip, 3rd toughest schedule in the league, and then slapping the Bulls after the road trip with a B2B. This is the kind of stuff why Pops load managed his guys.

And the schedulers aren't even done yet, we have another B2B with Miami, when Miami's last game was 3 days ago against the TWolves.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#84 » by madvillian » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:14 pm

kodo wrote:Really I think the only thing I would have done different as Billy is DNP all the starters along with Caruso. A massive WC road trip, 3rd toughest schedule in the league, and then slapping the Bulls after the road trip with a B2B. This is the kind of stuff why Pops load managed his guys.

And the schedulers aren't even done yet, we have another B2B with Miami, when Miami's last game was 3 days ago against the TWolves.


Yea I'd have just rested everybody honestly. It's hard to come out with a winning mindset when you're already resting a key player so might as well just make it a complete capitulation. The schedule, frankly, has been ****. I'd complain to the NBA if I was Chicago but I guess this is just how it is trying to play 82 games and they won't ever reduce it down to 74 or something that makes more sense, at least not while fans are in the arenas and buying tickets and merch.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#85 » by jacoby1us » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:30 pm

It happens, not making excuses but these guys just came off of a long road trip and they played the night before. Nothing but a little fatigue. On to the next one!
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#86 » by The Force. » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:14 pm

I wanted Turner before the Vuc deal and he definitely would've come a lot cheaper. However, Vuc is a superior offensive player by nearly every metric. He also fits in perfectly with the current roster construction (no true PG on the team).

If we had drafted a guy like Haliburton, Turner makes a lot more sense.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#87 » by BullChit » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:28 pm

The Force. wrote:I wanted Turner before the Vuc deal and he definitely would've come a lot cheaper. However, Vuc is a superior offensive player by nearly every metric. He also fits in perfectly with the current roster construction (no true PG on the team).

If we had drafted a guy like Haliburton, Turner makes a lot more sense.


Exactly this... Both us and the Pacers would basically be making a lateral move by getting worse in one category and stronger in another.

We'd finally have some ring protection to go with our size but lose 4-5 assists.

Indy would gain some 3pt shooting and play making but lose interior defence.

Both teams would just switch things for the fans to complain about.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#88 » by ChettheJet » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:42 pm

We also had a Troy Brown jr sighting. He played quite a long stretch and played hard even if he didn't do much. But on a couple of trips down court they mentioned that the Bulls passed up several good shots, Green, Ayo and even Coby looking for the perfect open man. My observation is that Brown is a more willing shooter than Green, maybe it's confidence or not wanting to overstep his role, Ayo passes up shots on occasion I think not wanting to be seen as a rookie chucker, even though he's not. I just see Brown as more willing to take shots, maybe because he's been looked at as a scorer in the past more than Green who is the hustle guy.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#89 » by fleet » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:13 pm

BullsFTW wrote:Brutal schedule…Back to back after a long road trip?!

scheduled loss, totally
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#90 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:31 pm

DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Coby is returning from injury where he couldn’t even lift his arm. Cut him some slack. We have enough hustle guys getting heavy minutes. We need a flamethrower off the bench. That ain’t Ayo.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#91 » by BullChit » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:42 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Coby is returning from injury where he couldn’t even lift his arm. Cut him some slack. We have enough hustle guys getting heavy minutes. We need a flamethrower off the bench. That ain’t Ayo.


Billy even practically said in his post match that it didn't matter who or what we had it wouldn't have made a difference with how we played.

Team was exhausted and clearly not up to the task with or without Caruso and with or without Green or Ayo starting ahead of Coby.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#92 » by DuckIII » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:58 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Coby is returning from injury where he couldn’t even lift his arm. Cut him some slack. We have enough hustle guys getting heavy minutes. We need a flamethrower off the bench. That ain’t Ayo.


It is precisely because he’s returning from that serious injury that he should be on a short leash until he’s playing well.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#93 » by BullChit » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:00 pm

DuckIII wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Coby is returning from injury where he couldn’t even lift his arm. Cut him some slack. We have enough hustle guys getting heavy minutes. We need a flamethrower off the bench. That ain’t Ayo.


It is precisely because he’s returning from that serious injury that he should be on a short leash until he’s playing well.


It's the old Duck or the Egg argument... How does he play better without playing?
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#94 » by eierluke » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:45 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
DuckIII wrote:My eyes rolled heavily when Coby got the start, which just further confirms to me the Bulls are going to overplay him. And now it’s so blatant that they either absolutely love him, or they absolutely are hoping to trade him by the deadline. I don’t think it’s anything in between.

That said, I thought he had a really nice first half. His defense was active, he was making some nice passes and took the right shots for the most part.

Ayo’s a tough guy. I suspect he’ll use this slight - which it is - as motivation. Hopefully it does not negatively impact his aggressiveness. It would be terrible if he starts playing less free because he’s worried about making mistakes.

I’ve said this before and I may be super wrong. But to me, at the NBA level, Xs and Os strategy doesn’t end up meaning a whole lot as long as you are competent. I believe the coach’s main job is to manage personalities, develop players, and manage rotations.

I think the use of Coby this year so far has been a total failure. And now it may be an even worse mismanagement if it negatively impacts Ayo, who has played better than White and has earned every second he’s gotten.

But I can see the alternative view. I just don’t agree with it.


Coby is returning from injury where he couldn’t even lift his arm. Cut him some slack. We have enough hustle guys getting heavy minutes. We need a flamethrower off the bench. That ain’t Ayo.


If he could not even lift his arms, shoulnd't this be even more motivation to work your ass off trying to make any impact with what your body allows you to trhrow in (hustle, lateral feet movement) so that you can make any positive impact on this highly motivated and so far winning team?
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#95 » by eierluke » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:59 pm

I don't want to blame Coby White personally, my critique goes to BD/ management.

Shouldn't it be save to say at this point that Coby won't be a regular starter in the NBA, because he lack's the playmaking skills of a PG and does not have the size/ defensive ability of a starting SG?
Best case scenario is a Jamal Crawford role.

So if you want to showcase him wouldn't this make more sense in a role he's successful in (scorer of the bench vs opponents 2nd unit)?
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#96 » by DuckIII » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:34 am

BullChit wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Coby is returning from injury where he couldn’t even lift his arm. Cut him some slack. We have enough hustle guys getting heavy minutes. We need a flamethrower off the bench. That ain’t Ayo.


It is precisely because he’s returning from that serious injury that he should be on a short leash until he’s playing well.


It's the old Duck or the Egg argument... How does he play better without playing?


Not play him zero. Play him much less and not in tightly contested games until he’s showing he’s ready.

It’s kind of a wash though. His putrid 11 minutes cost us the Portland game, but his 4th quarter was critical in winning the Knicks game. And even though he ended up with a crappy stat line last night, he played well in the first half. And it was a blowout in the second half which is exactly when he should be getting big minutes to round back into shape.

It’s so obvious that this is the way to do it to balance winning and his return, that I’m leaning towards MJ’s posts stating that it’s all about pump and dump. It’s the only logical reason for why they are handling his minutes so horribly.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#97 » by meekrab » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:42 am

DuckIII wrote:It’s so obvious that this is the way to do it to balance winning and his return, that I’m leaning towards MJ’s posts stating that it’s all about pump and dump. It’s the only logical reason for why they are handling his minutes so horribly.

There's a simpler explanation: Billy knows it doesn't really matter how the rotation looks when Vucevic is out, (because if Vuc is out we're not going anywhere in the playoffs) so he's just experimenting. :dontknow:
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#98 » by Shill » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:46 am

Another thing: I had no idea Simonovic was on the active roster.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#99 » by meekrab » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:01 am

Shill wrote:Another thing: I had no idea Simonovic was on the active roster.

Apparently he scored his first NBA point while Stacey and Amin were looking at a meme, so his family didn't even get to see it. I learned this from Twitter because I wasn't watching by that point either.
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Re: PG: Did they know there was a game tonight? 

Post#100 » by DuckIII » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:22 pm

meekrab wrote:
DuckIII wrote:It’s so obvious that this is the way to do it to balance winning and his return, that I’m leaning towards MJ’s posts stating that it’s all about pump and dump. It’s the only logical reason for why they are handling his minutes so horribly.

There's a simpler explanation: Billy knows it doesn't really matter how the rotation looks when Vucevic is out, (because if Vuc is out we're not going anywhere in the playoffs) so he's just experimenting. :dontknow:


So because Vuc is out right now, it doesn’t matter if we do our best to win, because if Vuc is out again for a different reason in the playoffs, it’s all hopeless anyway? That is definitely not a “simpler explanation.”

Here’s the simpler explanation (which I don’t believe): The team has such an incredibly high opinion of Coby that risking wins and playoff seeding is irrelevant because he’s so awesome.
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