Get Rid of Coby White - (1/4 - He's busted out of his slump)

[kulaz3000]

Apologies as I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm super happy for Coby and his recent development, but I'm still on board for trading him, ESPECIALLY now that his stock has seemingly risen. I much prefer invest the time on Ayo, who I believe has more of a chance to become a better all-round player, though he may never be the dynamic scorer that Coby can be at times.

Coby has been nothing but a professional and I absolutely love his enthusiasm on the floor, getting excited not only when he plays well but even when he is playing poorly lifting up other players and just generally being excited for the team when we do well. He is a team player through and through, and I absolutely wish him nothing but success, but I just feel that if we can get a lottery pick for him, or a young big in return it's a move we should make. As to who? I'm not entirely sure, but we have guards, and the guard position in the league right now is plentiful.

I don't envy the front office though, because the time to trade him is this trade deadline if any, but with how much he has been progressing and how much the team is in sync, I'm sure it will be a difficult decision to make a trade in fear of disrupting the chemistry all that much, but if I were in the position, I'd strike while the iron is hot.

[kulaz3000]

One last thing, I really think with some luck we could win the championship this season. For the most part, I'm conservative, and if I'm being reasonable, we simply lack the playoff experience to be a championship team, however, with the way we are playing, the way this team has gelled so quickly, I think with the right move to solidify our roster down the stretch, we could potentially give us a great chance on being one of the last two teams standing.

And right now, I think our greatest asset, who are realistic tradeable players, is Coby.

[GoBlue72391]

Apologies as I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm super happy for Coby and his recent development, but I'm still on board for trading him, ESPECIALLY now that his stock has seemingly risen. I much prefer invest the time on Ayo, who I believe has more of a chance to become a better all-round player, though he may never be the dynamic scorer that Coby can be at times.

Coby has been nothing but a professional and I absolutely love his enthusiasm on the floor, getting excited not only when he plays well but even when he is playing poorly lifting up other players and just generally being excited for the team when we do well. He is a team player through and through, and I absolutely wish him nothing but success, but I just feel that if we can get a lottery pick for him, or a young big in return it's a move we should make. As to who? I'm not entirely sure, but we have guards, and the guard position in the league right now is plentiful.

I don't envy the front office though, because the time to trade him is this trade deadline if any, but with how much he has been progressing and how much the team is in sync, I'm sure it will be a difficult decision to make a trade in fear of disrupting the chemistry all that much, but if I were in the position, I'd strike while the iron is hot.

I've been on-board with trading Coby or Pat or potentially both if the right deal came along, but what I've seen from Coby recently has me leaning towards wanting to keep him and trade PWill + fillers to address the PF hole. If he can continue to play even a third as good as he is right now, then he'll always have a clear and defined role here as a bench scorer, which also fills a need for us. PWill has the higher ceiling no doubt, but it seems like he's a long way off and I doubt he'll ever reach it given his personality, plus we can't really afford to be patient with him given our timeline and window.

That's not to say I wouldn't still trade Coby if the right deal came along, because I would, and as you said now would be a great time to strike while the iron is hot. I just think at this point if I could only keep one between him and PWill I'm picking Coby. Trading PWill costs us nothing other than that nebulous potential he provides, while trading Coby would be giving up our only consistent bench scoring option. I like Ayo a ton and actually think he has more potential than Coby, but I don't think you can count on him to provide a consistent scoring punch off the bench at this point in his career as he seems less capable of creating his own shot than Coby.

[GoBlue72391]

One last thing, I really think with some luck we could win the championship this season. For the most part, I'm conservative, and if I'm being reasonable, we simply lack the playoff experience to be a championship team, however, with the way we are playing, the way this team has gelled so quickly, I think with the right move to solidify our roster down the stretch, we could potentially give us a great chance on being one of the last two teams standing.

And right now, I think our greatest asset, who are realistic tradeable players, is Coby.

I feel the same way. The similarity between this team and the 2010-11 team gives me some pause, though. That team killed it in the regular season, surpassed all expectations, and dominated their biggest threat by sweeping the Heat in the regular season and blowing them out the first game they matched up in the ECF, at which point it all came crashing down. Their biggest weakness was a glaring hole at SG.

We've been dominating the regular season, have surpassed all expectations, and are 2-0 against the Nets so far. We also have a glaring hole at PF, plus an alarming lack of playoff experience from all of our main guys except DeMar. Both teams have/had strong benches.

It's obviously not a direct comparison, but the parallels are striking to me, and at the end of the day, I think the overwhelming majority of the time talent wins out in the end. Brookly with KD, Harden, and maybe Kyrie is a pretty daunting opponent, even with Zach and MVP-level DeMar. Then there's Milwaukee with Giannis and you can never count out the Lakers with their talent no matter how poorly constructed their roster is.

At the same time though, I feel like this is the most wide-open the league has been in some time and making a trade to address the PF hole is definitely the best bet to solidify our contender status. Regardless though, we'll definitely need luck on our side.

[Wingy]

One last thing, I really think with some luck we could win the championship this season. For the most part, I'm conservative, and if I'm being reasonable, we simply lack the playoff experience to be a championship team, however, with the way we are playing, the way this team has gelled so quickly, I think with the right move to solidify our roster down the stretch, we could potentially give us a great chance on being one of the last two teams standing.

And right now, I think our greatest asset, who are realistic tradeable players, is Coby.

One thing we should talk about more is that DeMar’s run isn’t sustainable for the playoffs. It’s harder to get to the line. Teams will clog the middle, and double harder with bigger/faster/smarter guys. He can’t extend his game out to 3. He can, and has been slowed down historically in the playoffs, and we’ve seen glimpses already in the regular season.

Mavs did a decent job last night. Indy did a nice job in the heave game IIRC.

For that reason, getting rid of Coby is playing with fire IMO. Vuc has struggled plenty now, and it’s not going to get any easier. Zach could step up to another level, but I don’t have faith in him figuring it out fast. He seems like the type that will need the process of playoff losses before he’ll realize his game needs to evolve beyond his defaults (tough jumpers, and athletic drives).

That leaves Coby. For all his faults, no one on the roster comes close to being able to do what Coby can. If we trade him, it absolutely must be for someone that does not shrink offensively when given an advantage.

[Dieselbound&Down]

Apologies as I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm super happy for Coby and his recent development, but I'm still on board for trading him, ESPECIALLY now that his stock has seemingly risen. I much prefer invest the time on Ayo, who I believe has more of a chance to become a better all-round player, though he may never be the dynamic scorer that Coby can be at times.

Coby has been nothing but a professional and I absolutely love his enthusiasm on the floor, getting excited not only when he plays well but even when he is playing poorly lifting up other players and just generally being excited for the team when we do well. He is a team player through and through, and I absolutely wish him nothing but success, but I just feel that if we can get a lottery pick for him, or a young big in return it's a move we should make. As to who? I'm not entirely sure, but we have guards, and the guard position in the league right now is plentiful.

I don't envy the front office though, because the time to trade him is this trade deadline if any, but with how much he has been progressing and how much the team is in sync, I'm sure it will be a difficult decision to make a trade in fear of disrupting the chemistry all that much, but if I were in the position, I'd strike while the iron is hot.

I'm generally a person who would keep offense and figure out the rebounding/big rotation piece stuff later. But the whole point of play Coby and raise his value was to raise his value for a trade. Not to raise it then decide you have to keep him. That is GarPax talking.

The main/only reason to keep Coby is if you see him as a long term replacement for DDR when his scoring dips. But this team has a window and needs now, worry about that 3 years from now. I am very fine trading Coby for a lottery pick who can fill out the roster next year or a top 7 rotation caliber big for this year.

[dabig3]

Apologies as I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm super happy for Coby and his recent development, but I'm still on board for trading him, ESPECIALLY now that his stock has seemingly risen. I much prefer invest the time on Ayo, who I believe has more of a chance to become a better all-round player, though he may never be the dynamic scorer that Coby can be at times.

Coby has been nothing but a professional and I absolutely love his enthusiasm on the floor, getting excited not only when he plays well but even when he is playing poorly lifting up other players and just generally being excited for the team when we do well. He is a team player through and through, and I absolutely wish him nothing but success, but I just feel that if we can get a lottery pick for him, or a young big in return it's a move we should make. As to who? I'm not entirely sure, but we have guards, and the guard position in the league right now is plentiful.

I don't envy the front office though, because the time to trade him is this trade deadline if any, but with how much he has been progressing and how much the team is in sync, I'm sure it will be a difficult decision to make a trade in fear of disrupting the chemistry all that much, but if I were in the position, I'd strike while the iron is hot.

I'm generally a person who would keep offense and figure out the rebounding/big rotation piece stuff later. But the whole point of play Coby and raise his value was to raise his value for a trade. Not to raise it then decide you have to keep him. That is GarPax talking.

The main/only reason to keep Coby is if you see him as a long term replacement for DDR when his scoring dips. But this team has a window and needs now, worry about that 3 years from now. I am very fine trading Coby for a lottery pick who can fill out the roster next year or a top 7 rotation caliber big for this year.

More or less the same here, though not sure about the lottery pick unless we can get back a rotational guard too in that deal or a separate one.

We have 4 young players on rookie contracts we can call our "own": Pat, Coby, and now Marco and Ayo. Based on moves made this season, potentially none of those players will be on the team by the end of the 2022-2023 season, which is also Vuc's last contract year.

But I want to keep at least one player, potentially 2 from that list beyond 2023. And of that list, I simply think it'll be easier to retain Ayo and even PWill than Coby or Marco who doesn't seem that good. Bulls aren't going to give Coby the minutes, years, or money that he will want and maybe deserve when that final QO year comes up. I don't want another Lauri situation, unless it yields a similar bounty.

More importantly, the Bulls will have a cap situation to figure out next season and beyond. Is Coby worth the tax hit being a 6th/7th man scorer off the bench? Or do we commit to a permanent starting 4 guard lineup of Lonzo-Coby-Zach-DDR for the next several seasons with now less ability to make some big moves?

I'm happy that I'm not an exec. But I'm sure AKME will consider all options and go with the more optimal ones for success now and maintaining it for the future.

[Dieselbound&Down]

Apologies as I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm super happy for Coby and his recent development, but I'm still on board for trading him, ESPECIALLY now that his stock has seemingly risen. I much prefer invest the time on Ayo, who I believe has more of a chance to become a better all-round player, though he may never be the dynamic scorer that Coby can be at times.

Coby has been nothing but a professional and I absolutely love his enthusiasm on the floor, getting excited not only when he plays well but even when he is playing poorly lifting up other players and just generally being excited for the team when we do well. He is a team player through and through, and I absolutely wish him nothing but success, but I just feel that if we can get a lottery pick for him, or a young big in return it's a move we should make. As to who? I'm not entirely sure, but we have guards, and the guard position in the league right now is plentiful.

I don't envy the front office though, because the time to trade him is this trade deadline if any, but with how much he has been progressing and how much the team is in sync, I'm sure it will be a difficult decision to make a trade in fear of disrupting the chemistry all that much, but if I were in the position, I'd strike while the iron is hot.

I'm generally a person who would keep offense and figure out the rebounding/big rotation piece stuff later. But the whole point of play Coby and raise his value was to raise his value for a trade. Not to raise it then decide you have to keep him. That is GarPax talking.

The main/only reason to keep Coby is if you see him as a long term replacement for DDR when his scoring dips. But this team has a window and needs now, worry about that 3 years from now. I am very fine trading Coby for a lottery pick who can fill out the roster next year or a top 7 rotation caliber big for this year.

More or less the same here, though not sure about the lottery pick unless we can get back a rotational guard too in that deal or a separate one.

We have 4 young players on rookie contracts we can call our "own": Pat, Coby, and now Marco and Ayo. Based on moves made this season, potentially none of those players will be on the team by the end of the 2022-2023 season, which is also Vuc's last contract year.

But I want to keep at least one player, potentially 2 from that list beyond 2023. And of that list, I simply think it'll be easier to retain Ayo and even PWill than Coby or Marco who doesn't seem that good. Bulls aren't going to give Coby the minutes, years, or money that he will want and maybe deserve when that final QO year comes up. I don't want another Lauri situation, unless it yields a similar bounty.

More importantly, the Bulls will have a cap situation to figure out next season and beyond. Is Coby worth the tax hit being a 6th/7th man scorer off the bench? Or do we commit to a permanent starting 4 guard lineup of Lonzo-Coby-Zach-DDR for the next several seasons with now less ability to make some big moves?

I'm happy that I'm not an exec. But I'm sure AKME will consider all options and go with the more optimal ones for success now and maintaining it for the future.

The reason I would take back a lottery pick is that we then control a new young piece for 4 more years on a cheap(er) contract than Coby which gives us flexibility. I would probably rather have a good rotational big just because we a pretty veteran core right now but, if a decent one isn't available and we aren't going to be a serious contender, I would take a mid lottery pick or better and hope we get someone who fits in right away.

[FriedRise]

One last thing, I really think with some luck we could win the championship this season. For the most part, I'm conservative, and if I'm being reasonable, we simply lack the playoff experience to be a championship team, however, with the way we are playing, the way this team has gelled so quickly, I think with the right move to solidify our roster down the stretch, we could potentially give us a great chance on being one of the last two teams standing.

And right now, I think our greatest asset, who are realistic tradeable players, is Coby.

One thing we should talk about more is that DeMar’s run isn’t sustainable for the playoffs. It’s harder to get to the line. Teams will clog the middle, and double harder with bigger/faster/smarter guys. He can’t extend his game out to 3. He can, and has been slowed down historically in the playoffs, and we’ve seen glimpses already in the regular season.

Mavs did a decent job last night. Indy did a nice job in the heave game IIRC.

For that reason, getting rid of Coby is playing with fire IMO. Vuc has struggled plenty now, and it’s not going to get any easier. Zach could step up to another level, but I don’t have faith in him figuring it out fast. He seems like the type that will need the process of playoff losses before he’ll realize his game needs to evolve beyond his defaults (tough jumpers, and athletic drives).

That leaves Coby. For all his faults, no one on the roster comes close to being able to do what Coby can. If we trade him, it absolutely must be for someone that does not shrink offensively when given an advantage.

Man if everyone shrinks like that and we have to rely 100% on Coby, we're gonna flame out so fast!

[TeamMan]

The tankers have to absolutely hate what they are seeing. Its basically a direct assault on their worldview. Losing breeds losers. Winning breeds winners.

I think this statement overvalues the direction and undervalues the skill at which the Bulls went down this direction. There are probably 25 teams in the league that started the season with a goal to win as many games as possible and thought they would make the playoffs, and of those, the Bulls have the 3rd best winning percentage in the NBA right now.

Of the 25 teams attempting this strategy, the Bulls somehow jumped up about 20 spots on this list from where they were last season, and that wasn't because they decided to try to win vs try to tank, it was because they tried to win and hit it out of the park with each of their decisions this off-season.

The opposite scenario would be if you were tanking and drafted KD, Harden, and Westbrook in three consecutive years and said "wow this tanking approach works great".

That said, since the change of the lottery rules and the unwillingness for teams to ever trade picks without protection anymore, it is much harder to build through the draft than it ever was in the past.

This post is very insightful and IMO makes a statement about how the NBA has developed, and also why Gar/Pax failed so miserably.

Winning teams build through Free Agency.

A player that can carry you past the 1st round of the playoffs comes along maybe once every 3 years.

Players that can carry you past the 2nd round maybe once every 5, or even 10 years.

But even then, there is rarely a player that can do it within the 1st 5 years of his career.

That means that the draft is always a crap shoot, and the teams that play it are not trying to win, they're trying to stay out of the Lux Tax by keeping their salaries low.

Once their players go into Free Agency, they either trade them, or let them walk. So, basically, they serve as development teams for the winning teams in the league.

This is perpetuated by the Free Agents themselves, by dictating which teams they want to be traded to mostly in Sign-and-Trades.

Bulls ownership played the "Development Team" version of this situation for many years. But it was driven by guaranteed season ticket sales that were powered by the fan base left over from the Dynasty Years.

Once that Dynasty Years fan base got depleted, and the ticket sales dropped off, their thinking changed. And when the Bulls started to miss the playoffs (the build through the draft mentality), that further loss of revenue was the straw that broke the camel's back.

So, finally, AK was brought in as someone who knew how to play the Free Agency game that's necessary for wining teams.

And he played it to perfection.

Now, he is positioned to be the Executive of the Year, and Donovan is positioned to be coach of the year.

[BullChit]

One last thing, I really think with some luck we could win the championship this season. For the most part, I'm conservative, and if I'm being reasonable, we simply lack the playoff experience to be a championship team, however, with the way we are playing, the way this team has gelled so quickly, I think with the right move to solidify our roster down the stretch, we could potentially give us a great chance on being one of the last two teams standing.

And right now, I think our greatest asset, who are realistic tradeable players, is Coby.

One thing we should talk about more is that DeMar’s run isn’t sustainable for the playoffs. It’s harder to get to the line. Teams will clog the middle, and double harder with bigger/faster/smarter guys. He can’t extend his game out to 3. He can, and has been slowed down historically in the playoffs, and we’ve seen glimpses already in the regular season.

Mavs did a decent job last night. Indy did a nice job in the heave game IIRC.

For that reason, getting rid of Coby is playing with fire IMO. Vuc has struggled plenty now, and it’s not going to get any easier. Zach could step up to another level, but I don’t have faith in him figuring it out fast. He seems like the type that will need the process of playoff losses before he’ll realize his game needs to evolve beyond his defaults (tough jumpers, and athletic drives).

That leaves Coby. For all his faults, no one on the roster comes close to being able to do what Coby can. If we trade him, it absolutely must be for someone that does not shrink offensively when given an advantage.

Man if everyone shrinks like that and we have to rely 100% on Coby, we're gonna flame out so fast!

100% and the main reason the Mavs had such an easy time making DeMar ineffective was because Zach had himself an off night (Vuc too really)

Hard for a defence to do that when the others are firing too.

[Onibuh]

Not against trading Coby, but against shopping him. He still young and only going to improve. His value won't sink as long as the team is doing this good. He'll look good.

[MisterRoy]

Ayo is a rookie, Caruso is more defense and playmaking than scoring. We need Coby. Our 1-2-3 position rotations can be Lonzo-Lavine-DDR/Ayo-Coby-Caruso with a little Javonte in there. I think this is a good problem to have.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[Rowland Garrett]

Apologies as I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm super happy for Coby and his recent development, but I'm still on board for trading him, ESPECIALLY now that his stock has seemingly risen. I much prefer invest the time on Ayo, who I believe has more of a chance to become a better all-round player, though he may never be the dynamic scorer that Coby can be at times.

Coby has been nothing but a professional and I absolutely love his enthusiasm on the floor, getting excited not only when he plays well but even when he is playing poorly lifting up other players and just generally being excited for the team when we do well. He is a team player through and through, and I absolutely wish him nothing but success, but I just feel that if we can get a lottery pick for him, or a young big in return it's a move we should make. As to who? I'm not entirely sure, but we have guards, and the guard position in the league right now is plentiful.

I don't envy the front office though, because the time to trade him is this trade deadline if any, but with how much he has been progressing and how much the team is in sync, I'm sure it will be a difficult decision to make a trade in fear of disrupting the chemistry all that much, but if I were in the position, I'd strike while the iron is hot.

I'm generally a person who would keep offense and figure out the rebounding/big rotation piece stuff later. But the whole point of play Coby and raise his value was to raise his value for a trade. Not to raise it then decide you have to keep him. That is GarPax talking.

The main/only reason to keep Coby is if you see him as a long term replacement for DDR when his scoring dips. But this team has a window and needs now, worry about that 3 years from now. I am very fine trading Coby for a lottery pick who can fill out the roster next year or a top 7 rotation caliber big for this year.

Of course you are assuming that was AK's plan. I'm not sure it even was. Time will tell.

[Ice Man]

It could be that AK regards Coby as trade bait, played him only because teams must show some belief in the guy to get decent value when trading him, and now has him on the trading block.

But I think the simpler explanation is more likely, that being that AK regards Coby as a useful rotation player who helps the team to win, and that AK isn't particularly interested in shopping Coby, although of course he wouldn't turn down a good deal if it were presented to him.

[meekrab]

I'm firmly of the belief that Coby survived the roster purge for a reason. He was healthy and averaging about 15/5/5 on average efficiency at the trade deadline, if AKME wanted him gone they would've easily found a buyer. But they didn't.

[sco]

I'm firmly of the belief that Coby survived the roster purge for a reason. He was healthy and averaging about 15/5/5 on average efficiency at the trade deadline, if AKME wanted him gone they would've easily found a buyer. But they didn't.

I think that's true. He is/was a good candidate to be the designated bench scorer. Also, his trade value still had to be pretty low heading into this season. Barring a good return for a package including him for a "better" player at the deadline, if this team disappoints, I could see a "swing for the fences" package on draft night including our pick, the POR pick, Coby and possibly Pat or even Vuc.

[bad knees]

Any PF that is desirable and obtainable is obtainable with PWill, the POR pick and filler. No need to throw Coby into the deal. Given the current roster makeup, the way Coby has been playing, and his team-unique abilities as a bench scorer, I would easily prefer to keep Coby and trade PWill and DJJ for a vet starter PF.

[logical_art]

Coby hasn't had big games the past two games, but he's been fine. Early in the season is off games were awful.

What's super encouraging is that his finishing and close range shooting has improved. Coby's gone from .529 as a rookie to .618 this season from 0-3 feet. From 3 - 10 feet he's gone from .321 to .419.

I saw this as his biggest weakness. I think it often takes guys who aren't blessed with overwhelming physical tools some time to adjust to finishing with the increased length and athleticism of pro players, and Coby looks to be making that adjustment.

[sco]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/coby-white-available-patrick-williams-122135003.html

Michael Scotto: Chicago is open to upgrading their roster but doesn’t want to part with Patrick Williams. However, Coby White is available for the right upgrade, according to rival executives.