Should AKME Go Big, Go Smaller, or Stand Pat at the deadline?

[MGB8]

I wonder what it would take to pry away Herbert Jones from the Pels.

If that was doable, say for the Portland pick + Simonovic* (or maybe even Ayo, though that would hurt, a lot), I’d probably prefer that to a lot of the “go big” trades.

* and maybe a Troy Brown for Temple swap (saves the Pels one year of salary, presuming that is not an illegal trade since Bulls traded him out in first place - so quite possible that they can’t).

Pels love Herb but, at the same time, the Pels are awful and when Zion returns, the 6’7 (but with 8’10 reach) Jones is going to have to take a back seat. He isn’t playing much center. Getting a first rounder back for the high second, plus Simonovic, would be fair value. He’d be the type of cheap but playable guy, with some upside, that the Bulls will need, while fitting nicely at the 4.

[BullsFTW]

Go Big.

Pursue Grant or Siakam.

[Just_Bullz]

Tonight was an example of why a dynamic bench is important. The team has to depend on starters' heroics to win the game while the bench was not doing anything much.

Quality role players matters for the current roster.

[superdave]

Just a gut feeling but I think AKME goes small. Nance is gettable (we would have the best dunking team in the history of the NBA lol) and is a nice fit. Also Taj or Ibaka would fit out defensive length.

[The Box Office]

Pascal Siakam is my number one target out of the group. He has tons of playoff experience AND championship winning experience. Those things are difficult to get and priceless. We would make another massive jump if we got him.

again, not realistically possible w/o giving up one or more members of the core group or completely hollowing out the depth. plus, he's merely a good player. the promise that he displayed at age 24 has waned. and he totally crapped the bed in his last playoffs

??? Why did you choose age 24?

At age 25, Pascal made a quantum leap and became All Star. Dude, he has a lot of playoff winning experience; something that this team severely lacks. I never dismiss that despite Pascal being impossible to get right now.

Disagree all you want, but I would trade Vuc for him.

[Payt10]

They need some help defensively. They're now out of the top 10, which is problematic for a team with Championship aspirations. I really worry about the interior paint protection come playoff time. Teams are going to exploit that weakness in every series until it gets fixed.

I think they need to find at least 1 more shooter who's better than Coby White and Matt Thomas, and they really need a starting PF with size and length who is versatile enough to switch onto other players and defend the rim. Siakam and Grant would nice additions, but at what cost? Ideally, I would love to hold on to DJJ.

Keep in mind that the Bulls will almost certainly be a primary destination for some ring chasing vet that gets bought out after the trade deadline. I'm pretty confident they will be able to get someone of value before this is all said and done.

[dice]

Pascal Siakam is my number one target out of the group. He has tons of playoff experience AND championship winning experience. Those things are difficult to get and priceless. We would make another massive jump if we got him.

again, not realistically possible w/o giving up one or more members of the core group or completely hollowing out the depth. plus, he's merely a good player. the promise that he displayed at age 24 has waned. and he totally crapped the bed in his last playoffs

??? Why did you choose age 24?

because it was his best season. playing off of kawhi as a very efficient secondary option

At age 25, Pascal made a quantum leap

this is false. his scoring went up 6 points a game because he was now the number 1 scoring option after kawhi left. but he couldn't handle the role and his efficiency plummeted. then he crashed and burned in the playoffs. he didn't deserve to be an all-star unless you include all of his play since the previous all-star game. but he got voted a starter in part i'm sure due to coming off a championship, and of course toronto's rabid fanbase. it was his only all-star season

Dude, he has a lot of playoff winning experience

most of it in one successful playoff run as a starter. at age 24. playing off of kawhi. and to reiterate, he soiled himself the following season in the playoffs w/o kawhi. hasn't been back since

given that in his first year as a playoff starter he had all that success, it just goes to show that playoff experience isn't necessarily a huge asset

Disagree all you want, but I would trade Vuc for him.

well if vuc is on the table that's an entirely different angle on the situation. i assume that people are bringing up siakam because they're looking to plug the PF spot next to vuc, not swap one roster hole for another

[dabig3]

Lonzo, Caruso, Green, Ayo, and DJJ are great defenders and can hassle bigger wings, but if we're talking playoffs where we have to face a bunch of slashing beasts every game and the rotations tighten - then we're going to want some help at the starting 4 to shore up our defense.

And it doesn't sound like PWill is close to coming back. We also can't rely on our smaller guys being able to physically defend all season like we expect/need them to. We're already seeing injuries, and we're not even at the halfway point yet of the season. And injuries seem to be happening to our defensive-minded hustle 4/small ball 5s in Caruso, Green, DJJ, now Tyler Cook, and previously PWill...

Correlation is not causation and all that and some are freak accidents and Vuc has remained durable, but I'm still going to call it a red flag and say that it's a trend to look out for as the season goes on. Hopefully the team can come back together again for the first time in ages it feels, and stay healthy. But it's a long, brutal season.

[The Box Office]

again, not realistically possible w/o giving up one or more members of the core group or completely hollowing out the depth. plus, he's merely a good player. the promise that he displayed at age 24 has waned. and he totally crapped the bed in his last playoffs

??? Why did you choose age 24?

because it was his best season. playing off of kawhi as a very efficient secondary option

At age 25, Pascal made a quantum leap

this is false. his scoring went up 6 points a game because he was now the number 1 scoring option after kawhi left. but he couldn't handle the role and his efficiency plummeted. then he crashed and burned in the playoffs. he didn't deserve to be an all-star unless you include all of his play since the previous all-star game. but he got voted a starter in part i'm sure due to coming off a championship, and of course toronto's rabid fanbase. it was his only all-star season

Dude, he has a lot of playoff winning experience

most of it in one successful playoff run as a starter. at age 24. playing off of kawhi. and to reiterate, he soiled himself the following season in the playoffs w/o kawhi. hasn't been back since

given that in his first year as a playoff starter he had all that success, it just goes to show that playoff experience isn't necessarily a huge asset

Disagree all you want, but I would trade Vuc for him.

well if vuc is on the table that's an entirely different angle on the situation. i assume that people are bringing up siakam because they're looking to plug the PF spot next to vuc, not swap one roster hole for another

How many players actually get to reach the Finals, regardless of Kawhi, and play tons of meaningful minutes in the Finals, as a starter, and win the ring?

Not many. Rare.

Pascal's experience will trickle down, to the rest of the Bulls, if he was here. I humbly disagree that it's "not a huge asset." Because it is a huge asset. I couldn't care less that he "soiled himself." That doesn't matter in present times. Because that's in the past.

[logical_art]

I'm increasingly of mind that we basically just need to get a 6'8"-6'10" version of Green. I don't want to give up quality depth for a major PF upgrade, since IMO the team has enough offense and since depth will be key for this season in particular.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

If Coby keeps playing like this, I would be less inclined to move him. I would still see what a PWIll+Por pick+exp based package could get us.

I wonder if Detroit would bite on PWill+Troy Brown+Marko+Matt Thomas(would have to guarantee his salary)+POR pick for Grant(or Sacramento for Barnes)? The money works there with the +5M rule and would allow us to keep Coby and DJJ.

Imagine

Vuc / DJJ / Bradley
Grant or Barnes / Javonte / Cook
DeRozan / Ayo
Zach / Coby / McKinnie
Ball / Caruso / Dotson

But maybe that's getting greedy(and we would 100% go into the tax next season with Coby still around).

Thing is, if we start to feel like we don't want to trade Coby, than PWill is the major piece, and PWill still has the potential to be better than any of the guys on the 'smaller' list; you trade PWill for Covington or Kleber or whoever, that deal has the potential to look very bad down the line, whereas Grant/Barnes would be a safer bet. So if we take Coby off the table, it basically becomes, get a team to bite on giving us a 'big' guy for a PWill-based package, or don't make a trade.

Also, I was very intrigued b Siakam earlier in the season, but his contract is too big. We'd have to move so many pieces to match the salary.

[jordanwilliams6]

Based on how well this team is playing I still want to go small. I want to keep Coby for bench scoring & PWill for his long term potential and genuine fit with this current group.

My targets are one of RoCo, Nance or Boucher using the Portland pick, TBJ or perhaps DJJ if needed. The assets aren’t much but hopefully enough for one of those guys.

[sco]

Based on how well this team is playing I still want to go small. I want to keep Coby for bench scoring & PWill for his long term potential and genuine fit with this current group.

My targets are one of RoCo, Nance or Boucher using the Portland pick, TBJ or perhaps DJJ if needed. The assets aren’t much but hopefully enough for one of those guys.

I like your thoughts! I still think POR is our best trade partner because they can "upgrade" their pick (by removing protection) and use it in a bigger deal either at the deadline or draft night.

The guy who I don't think we could get who would be the perfect fit would be Taj. I am amazed how good he still is on both ends. I was also surprised to learn that Taj was like a big brother to DD at USC. The Knicks are my 2nd fav team, so I don't want them to suck, but man this year, they aren't clicking.

[dice]

??? Why did you choose age 24?

because it was his best season. playing off of kawhi as a very efficient secondary option

At age 25, Pascal made a quantum leap

this is false. his scoring went up 6 points a game because he was now the number 1 scoring option after kawhi left. but he couldn't handle the role and his efficiency plummeted. then he crashed and burned in the playoffs. he didn't deserve to be an all-star unless you include all of his play since the previous all-star game. but he got voted a starter in part i'm sure due to coming off a championship, and of course toronto's rabid fanbase. it was his only all-star season

Dude, he has a lot of playoff winning experience

most of it in one successful playoff run as a starter. at age 24. playing off of kawhi. and to reiterate, he soiled himself the following season in the playoffs w/o kawhi. hasn't been back since

given that in his first year as a playoff starter he had all that success, it just goes to show that playoff experience isn't necessarily a huge asset

Disagree all you want, but I would trade Vuc for him.

well if vuc is on the table that's an entirely different angle on the situation. i assume that people are bringing up siakam because they're looking to plug the PF spot next to vuc, not swap one roster hole for another

How many players actually get to reach the Finals, regardless of Kawhi, and play tons of meaningful minutes in the Finals, as a starter, and win the ring?

Not many. Rare.

that completely ignores the quality of the player. duh. PJ tucker and pat connaughton played big minutes for the bucks in the finals last year. should we be going after them too?

Pascal's experience will trickle down, to the rest of the Bulls, if he was here. I humbly disagree that it's "not a huge asset." Because it is a huge asset. I couldn't care less that he "soiled himself." That doesn't matter in present times. Because that's in the past.

then you shouldn't care that he has positive playoff experience, that too is in the past. 3 years now. it's pretty obvious that both experience and performance matter. it SHOULD also be obvious that swapping out vuc for siakam wouldn't exactly be a game changer. and would probably be detrimental. siakam wouldn't provide anything that this team needs, and losing vuc would further exacerbate the rebounding issue

[MrSparkle]

Lot of trades have us sending assets and rotation-quality players (DJJ, Coby) for an expiring. I just don’t see AKME making such a short-sighted move, unless it’s a steal.

I think they go smaller (primary chips: Troy, TPE, Bradley).

Coby would go for the right deal. That’d be my idea of a bigger trade. Not Grant or Siakam, but more like Trent Jr and Khem in (Coby/Troy out). Or Bazley/Dort/Roby.

Guys like Thad, Nurkic, Ingles, Warren, Thompson, Favors, Bagley, PJ Tucker, JaMychael Green, Zubac, Boucher, Bamba, McGee, Looney, Portis, Dieng, Covington, Finney-Smith, Batum, Howard, LMA, Markieff, Drummond, Zeller and more are hitting the open market… and there’s really nobody with cap space. These guys are gonna have a tough market. I think Finney or RoCo would be my summer MLE targets, and I’d try to get a vet min or late FRP big man prospect.

Those guys aren’t nearly good enough to guarantee a chip right now, and not worth sending a higher ceiling young asset.

However we have the TPE. As the tank jobs double down and playoff picture clears up, I can totally see us gunning for a $5m rental.

Jeff Green
Dieng (ATL is deep in luxury)
Ariza (LAL is deep in luxury)
DFS (Mavs need sweetener.. not sure I’d pay)
Muscala (haven’t watched this guy in years but his advanced digits are very good, and his odd place on a tank development squad has me curious)

Hawks and Lakers are insanely deep into luxury tax, and presently sub-500 with way too much depth at positions of no need (in the grand scheme). I don’t know how much hope they have in Ariza. He’d be a nice chip vet, low minute, backup-backup (if his ankle is fine).

But I’d explore these types of options. Cap relief (us being the buyers, for a change of pace) could be our best asset with that small TPE.

[Wingy]

Tonight was an example of why a dynamic bench is important. The team has to depend on starters' heroics to win the game while the bench was not doing anything much.

Quality role players matters for the current roster.

We have them in spades. Lonzo, Caruso, Javonte, and Bradley all out. Heck, if Pat can make it back, we’re sitting pretty. Two starter level talents that push last night’s starters to the bench (or serve as uber high quality role player), and two good role players. We need a starting caliber 4 that’s not vertically challenged more than anything.

[Wingy]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned.

Now that it’s 2022, can we actually trade 3x firsts? Portland, 2027, and 2029 if need be? Not exactly sure how the letter of the 7 year law works, but...

Recent Coby, PWill, Ayo, and 3-first round picks could theoretically net a very interesting player.

[The Box Office]

because it was his best season. playing off of kawhi as a very efficient secondary option


this is false. his scoring went up 6 points a game because he was now the number 1 scoring option after kawhi left. but he couldn't handle the role and his efficiency plummeted. then he crashed and burned in the playoffs. he didn't deserve to be an all-star unless you include all of his play since the previous all-star game. but he got voted a starter in part i'm sure due to coming off a championship, and of course toronto's rabid fanbase. it was his only all-star season


most of it in one successful playoff run as a starter. at age 24. playing off of kawhi. and to reiterate, he soiled himself the following season in the playoffs w/o kawhi. hasn't been back since

given that in his first year as a playoff starter he had all that success, it just goes to show that playoff experience isn't necessarily a huge asset


well if vuc is on the table that's an entirely different angle on the situation. i assume that people are bringing up siakam because they're looking to plug the PF spot next to vuc, not swap one roster hole for another

How many players actually get to reach the Finals, regardless of Kawhi, and play tons of meaningful minutes in the Finals, as a starter, and win the ring?

Not many. Rare.

that completely ignores the quality of the player. duh. PJ tucker and pat connaughton played big minutes for the bucks in the finals last year. should we be going after them too?

Pascal's experience will trickle down, to the rest of the Bulls, if he was here. I humbly disagree that it's "not a huge asset." Because it is a huge asset. I couldn't care less that he "soiled himself." That doesn't matter in present times. Because that's in the past.

then you shouldn't care that he has positive playoff experience, that too is in the past. 3 years now. it's pretty obvious that both experience and performance matter. it SHOULD also be obvious that swapping out vuc for siakam wouldn't exactly be a game changer. and would probably be detrimental. siakam wouldn't provide anything that this team needs, and losing vuc would further exacerbate the rebounding issue

I like to think about it this way: If we never got DeMar DeRozan and Alex Caruso right now, we suck. We're losers, under LaVine, as the leader. That's a fact. LaVine, as the Alpha, is a loser team.

With DeMar and Caruso here, we elevated.

If we took away those 2, where would be right now? Losers. And what do DeMar and Caruso share? A lot of playoff experience. How do players get extensive playoff experience? By winning. A lot. Something that the team did not have before DeMar and Caruso joined the team.

Go on and protect Vooch all you want. He's on the wrong side of 30 and hasn't won anything meaningful as the Alpha Dog in Orlando. He's playing good right now for us and I commend Vooch for that. He can get all the rebounds he wants (and he should be getting tons of rebounds no question), but he's no ace on defense.

Vooch will show flashes and that's great, but he's weak and inconsistent on that side of the ball.

As for making a move at the deadline, I'm not sure if I want to make a big move. Rarely that works. I wait for Summer.

[sljdaddy]

I'm for going small: signing a mobile defensive PF off of waivers or trading with TPE/2nd round picks, while preserving the opportunity to develop our young players (Coby, Pat, Ayo) for the long term. Our window for winning a chip with our 3 all stars does not close this year.

As wise as it is to always look for opportunities to improve your team, it is unwise to put yourself in a position where you are constantly retooling: even under the guise of a perpetual "our window of contention is closing soon" mentality every year.

[nomorezorro]

i am really am blown away by how many people are saying "let's just get someone on waivers." it's such a passive conservative mindset after an aggressive offseason that completely turned the state of this team around. why would you want to sit back and wait to pick over the scraps of who other teams choose to actively discard, and cross your fingers that one of the few available positive contributors will fit your needs and want to sign with your team?

like, even if you don't want to trade pat/coby, we have other players on this roster we can trade! allow yourself to aim higher!