RealGM

1 through 5 (Zach, Ball, Caruso, Coby* and Ayo), which teams have better guards than Chicago?

* All aboard!

Curry, Poole, Klay*, Payton Jr from the Dubs. But without Klay for now, I’d give the edge to the Bulls guards.

Also Memphis has a solid young group of guards with Morant, Bane, Brooks (plays some SF too), and Melton.
I’ll give the edge to Bulls still though.

G Ball / Caruso / Ayo
G LaVine / White / Ayo

You literally don't need any other guards. For the forseeable future. That's everything, offense, defense, upside, shotmakers, playmaking etc.

Chicago is #1 without Klay in GS.

Top to bottom at the guard spot, I rank Bulls as no1 . Derozan can play some 2 guard too. But even without derozan, bulls still have the best collection of guards in the league top to bottom. But the Nets are co-1A
With Harden and Irving.

HoopsterJones wrote:Curry, Poole, Klay*, Payton Jr from the Dubs. But without Klay for now, I’d give the edge to the Bulls guards.

Warriors are probably better and they're probably even more balanced and explosive in terms of O and D combinations, but if we play All-Star/All-NBA rules where Derozan is counted as a guard then I'll take Bulls.

NecessaryEvil wrote:G Ball / Caruso / Ayo
G LaVine / White / Ayo

You literally don't need any other guards. For the forseeable future. That's everything, offense, defense, upside, shotmakers, playmaking etc.

Chicago is #1 without Klay in GS.

The thing about the Bulls guards is that they're so complimentary. Zach gives you the offense while Ball can guard the better scorer out of the two guards. Same thing with Coby and Caruso, since Caruso also has the ability to guard both guard positions and like Ball doesn't need to dominate the ball to be effective.

Yeah, definitely the Dubs have a better back court. Without question. Steph Curry is GOAT level and a healthy Klay is also GOAT level.

erlim wrote:Yeah, definitely the Dubs have a better back court. Without question. Steph Curry is GOAT level and a healthy Klay is also GOAT level.

We will have to see how healthy Klay is. He suffered TWO catastrophic leg injuries. Curry/Thompson was the best starting backcourt in NBA history though.

HoopsterJones wrote:Curry, Poole, Klay*, Payton Jr from the Dubs. But without Klay for now, I’d give the edge to the Bulls guards.

We're speaking strictly Guard rotation right?

I disagree that Warriors has better guard rotation than the Bulls even with Klay. I'd take Zach, DD, Lonzo, Caruso, Coby, and Ayo over what they have. Although, Curry is a legendary franchise changing caliber player by himself.

Draymond and Wiggins are important players that also make significant contribution to their Wins.

RSP83 wrote:

HoopsterJones wrote:Curry, Poole, Klay*, Payton Jr from the Dubs. But without Klay for now, I’d give the edge to the Bulls guards.

We're speaking strictly Guard rotation right?

I disagree that Warriors has better guard rotation than the Bulls even with Klay. I'd take Zach, DD, Lonzo, Caruso, Coby, and Ayo over what they have. Although, Curry is a legendary franchise changing caliber player by himself.

Draymond and Wiggins are important players that also make significant contribution to their Wins.

If we’re including Derozan than yeah the Bulls have the edge then.

So the Bulls have better guards than Golden State and at least an equal frontcourt too? Because surely the argument isn't that Draymond, Wiggins, & filler is better than DeRozan, Vooch, and filler.

That argument seems ... a stretch.

Defensively Chicago is undoubtedly at the top. Also factor in that Javonte Green is also a guard. We basically run 3, 4 guard lineups all game long. Even Troy Brown Jr is a guard, but like Green he mans the PF position for us.

This is just a random metric but I agree w/ the rating, Lonzo & Caruso are both All-NBA defense this season. Our defense is one of the worst in the league with them out and one of the best whey they play.

HoopsterJones wrote:

RSP83 wrote:

HoopsterJones wrote:Curry, Poole, Klay*, Payton Jr from the Dubs. But without Klay for now, I’d give the edge to the Bulls guards.

We're speaking strictly Guard rotation right?

I disagree that Warriors has better guard rotation than the Bulls even with Klay. I'd take Zach, DD, Lonzo, Caruso, Coby, and Ayo over what they have. Although, Curry is a legendary franchise changing caliber player by himself.

Draymond and Wiggins are important players that also make significant contribution to their Wins.

If we’re including Derozan than yeah the Bulls have the edge then.

Yes, I included Derozan because I think 2 and 3 is really interchangeable these days. And Derozan can play 1-4 in BD's system. When we stagger Derozan and Zach, who is primarily a 2, I just assume Derozan fills the 2 slot.

kodo wrote:Defensively Chicago is undoubtedly at the top. Also factor in that Javonte Green is also a guard. We basically run 3, 4 guard lineups all game long. Even Troy Brown Jr is a guard, but like Green he mans the PF position for us.

This is just a random metric but I agree w/ the rating, Lonzo & Caruso are both All-NBA defense this season. Our defense is one of the worst in the league with them out and one of the best whey they play.

Yes this analytics match the eye test as well (in case of AC and Lonzo).

EDIT: sorry, what's the Y-axis represents? D-Lebron?

kodo wrote:Lonzo & Caruso are both All-NBA defense this season. Our defense is one of the worst in the league with them out and one of the best whey they play.

True that.

RSP83 wrote:

kodo wrote:Defensively Chicago is undoubtedly at the top. Also factor in that Javonte Green is also a guard. We basically run 3, 4 guard lineups all game long. Even Troy Brown Jr is a guard, but like Green he mans the PF position for us.

This is just a random metric but I agree w/ the rating, Lonzo & Caruso are both All-NBA defense this season. Our defense is one of the worst in the league with them out and one of the best whey they play.

Yes this analytics match the eye test as well (in case of AC and Lonzo).

EDIT: sorry, what's the Y-axis represents? D-Lebron?

Short answer: Defensive impact

Longer answer: Luck-adjusted player estimate using a box prior regularized on-off (defensive)

I hear you guys, but I find these things to be artificial feel good discussions. The NBA is about having a top 5 player, and then other things. Also, positions are artificial too now.

kodo wrote:Defensively Chicago is undoubtedly at the top. Also factor in that Javonte Green is also a guard. We basically run 3, 4 guard lineups all game long. Even Troy Brown Jr is a guard, but like Green he mans the PF position for us.

This is just a random metric but I agree w/ the rating, Lonzo & Caruso are both All-NBA defense this season. Our defense is one of the worst in the league with them out and one of the best whey they play.

I really didn't expect we would have 2 elite scorers, and 2 elite defenders. Wow. I mean the stats backed it up as well.

I saw another stats in some thread showing Derozan being a leader in terms of offensive impact by a wide margin to the next guy. And the next guy is Zach Lavine. And this chart shows AC and Lonzo have similar impact defensively.

Warriors and Nets join the chat.