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PG: Not contenders right now

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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#61 » by Ice Man » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Seems like a cool chart but I can't figure out who the players are, even after blowing up the picture.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#62 » by NecessaryEvil » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:18 pm

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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#63 » by cowraiser » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:19 pm

Ice Man wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:These comments and thread title..lol,


Is your quarrel with "not contenders" or "now"?


His MO is to complain about the complainers.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#64 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:31 pm

DuckIII wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:These comments and thread title..lol,


Yeah, you’re right. We’re top tier contenders. We should probably be favored over all.

So did you expect us to be first in the east right now??? Like before season started
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#65 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:33 pm

cowraiser wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:These comments and thread title..lol,


Is your quarrel with "not contenders" or "now"?


His MO is to complain about the complainers.

Correct because I love this team and it's crazy after all they done the **** people say.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#66 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:37 pm

Lose Zach 4 minutes into the game...Great game to judge lol
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#67 » by Wingy » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:43 pm

DuckIII wrote:
NecessaryEvil wrote:We aren't on the levels of Brooklyn or Golden State.

That much is apparently clear now.

Both of those teams healthy, or unhealthy are still superior.

We'd be lucky to get to the ECF


Presumably this was obvious even before both teams blew us out. I can’t imagine anyone objectively having the Bulls ranked higher than 3rd in the East or 5th in NBA. And with a notable gap between those tiers.


Yup. We were always a punchers chance contender only, and we still are if we're whole. I wrote a post just like this one below at the end of the game thread, but it must've been locked right before I hit "submit." But I found on the last page that bad knees coincidentally had just put up the same thought...

bad knees wrote:Our early season success was fragile. Every piece was needed, everyone covered for another teammate’s weakness. The core element was Caruso and the defense. As that has chipped away, the dam is finally bursting.


Totally agree. I think some people were mistaking DeMar and Zach for real superstars on the level of KD, Giannis...some dude was literally arguing that with me. They're big-timer All Stars, but they are a tier below. For teams lead by that level of player to compete on the level of superstar teams - you absolutely need superior depth, and cohesion. We slowly lost all of our depth.

That response that got lost w/the lock was in reply to you
umfan83 wrote:...
(it would be cool if we had an @ mention feature). I understand why you and many of us would be disappointed in recent performance, and not just the Warriors game, but I think the above outlines the reasons. We were never in the Warriors/Nets class despite the record. We need all of our horses. But when we do have them, as I said, I think we can hang with them. If Zach is ok and ownership let's AK continue to be aggressive - we could beat some of them if they get dinged up...and they have been dinged up plenty (Nets/Warriors), or may just be exhausted come playoff time (Jrue/Middleton's lack of break since before the bubble).
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#68 » by weneeda2guard » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:45 pm

For real I hate these past 2 games. And I really wish we could have solidified ourselves as top contenders on national TV and basked in the rays of the hype. But it's not all over lol. Regardless of how horrible this looks right now we are still somehow 1st in the East and although we may slip some we have players returning who is going to lift the spirits of the team and our defense will get better and once the defense gets improved we will start winning games again. We are a great team. Fine we are not contenders now but who is say these growing pains won't have us legit contending next season? It's growing pains this is not a super team. We have to unfortunately organically grow together.

And BTW, every top team has suffered some embarrassment Bucks got beat by the pistons on their home floor lost a couple other games, nets got destroyed by the Bucks, warriors just got destroyed a few times, grizzlies just got spanked on their home floor by the mavs, it happens. So I know we are all demoralized and felling horrible right now but every fan base has had to deal with being embarrassed so far this season. We will get through it.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#69 » by ChettheJet » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:53 pm

It's not why they lost but they were just sloppy with the ball. Lonzo and Demar both just left their hands at home in the first half and everybody was making weak, way too long passes. That might account for 10-15 points of the deficit but you can't play soft with the ball against a small team like GSW. One thing that's happened of late is when Zach and Demar are pressured near mid court they tend to bend over with their back to their defender to shorten their dribble. And they seem to not be ready for the double team and that's when they cough up the ball. I'd rather see Lonzo, and Caruso when he returns, bring the ball up more than they have been doing.

Tonight proves what I was saying since PW went down and when Green, Caruso and Jones were healthy, they can get by with what they've got but not for long. Well you take those three out of the rotation and while Zach is scheduling his MRI, no they don't have a very good team. Next man up is bull. If the third guy on the depth chart was as good as the first and second they'd make a trade and improve some other spot. A matchup with even a depleted GSW is bad because they don't have a center and the Bulls are counting on Vuc to score in the post, but they shied away from that most of the night. The situation on defense is a disaster. He can't switch onto the wing players or PG, and when they go by him there's no help behind him. If the Bulls have four smaller guys out there with him then he's away from the basket and there's very little rebounding.


They just need to do what they can until people get healthy. Now is not the time to make some halfassed desperation trade like I'm sure some of the usual suspects are already playing trade machine to post. The goal is winning in the playoffs, they don't have to be the #1 seed or even #4, IN is what matters and having the strongest healthiest possible team at the end of April that they can put out there.

Coby will get even more meaningful minutes starting for a while, Brown, Ayo and McKinnie may well play starter's minutes and get used to playing with Ball, DeRozan and Vuc and those starters will gain more confidence in the bench guys.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#70 » by Wingy » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:04 pm

weneeda2guard wrote:For real I hate these past 2 games. And I really wish we could have solidified ourselves as top contenders on national TV and basked in the rays of the hype. But it's not all over lol. Regardless of how horrible this looks right now we are still somehow 1st in the East and although we may slip some we have players returning who is going to lift the spirits of the team and our defense will get better and once the defense gets improved we will start winning games again. We are a great team. Fine we are not contenders now but who is say these growing pains won't have us legit contending next season? It's growing pains this is not a super team. We have to unfortunately organically grow together.

And BTW, every top team has suffered some embarrassment Bucks got beat by the pistons on their home floor lost a couple other games, nets got destroyed by the Bucks, warriors just got destroyed a few times, grizzlies just got spanked on their home floor by the mavs, it happens. So I know we are all demoralized and felling horrible right now but every fan base has had to deal with being embarrassed so far this season. We will get through it.


It's part of the process. We skipped a lot of steps, but unsurprisingly, it looks like we're not going to get away with skipping all of them. These guys have to see what's it's like for the top contenders to come at them like they're a threat. They have to see how they have to work even harder in the offseason if they want to compete with those guys. They have to learn through failure that you can't just dominate the best of the best with what's gotten you here so far (looking at you Zach...you're my one hope to evolve into someone resembling a true superstar).

Think about it for a minute. Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving and James Harden came into our house with something to prove the other night. How insane is that from where we were one year ago?

I can't think of a team that didn't go through a lot of growing pains. Someone might throw out the Suns, but they haven't won a title yet, and their window hangs on the thin thread of a small, 37 year old PG (at time of this year's conference semis) who has faded late and been dinged up in a lot of past playoff runs.

With all the injuries + starters going out (inc. our best player...not 2nd best whoever said that earlier) in two consecutive games very early with non-trivial injuries + the specific opponents + current stage of this teams maturation -- it's puzzling why people are shocked and so disgruntled at such an intense degree to these particular losses.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#71 » by DuckIII » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:11 pm

BeatDaCavs420 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:These comments and thread title..lol,


Yeah, you’re right. We’re top tier contenders. We should probably be favored over all.

So did you expect us to be first in the east right now??? Like before season started


No. And before this week I didn’t expect us to stay there either. Nor will we.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#72 » by Ice Man » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:20 pm

DuckIII wrote:No. And before this week I didn’t expect us to stay there either. Nor will we.


We could conceivably be in 4th place one week from now, as our next 4 games are Boston, Memphis, Cleveland, and Milwaukee. With three of those games on the road, Zach and Caruso unavailable for at least the first 2 games, and DJJ and Javonte unavailable for all four. That's a tough stretch.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#73 » by nitric0 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:24 pm

I'm a pessimist so I like to prepare for the worst.
If Zach does have an ACL injury, where do we go from here? Do we blow it up at the deadline?
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#74 » by weneeda2guard » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:26 pm

Wingy wrote:
weneeda2guard wrote:For real I hate these past 2 games. And I really wish we could have solidified ourselves as top contenders on national TV and basked in the rays of the hype. But it's not all over lol. Regardless of how horrible this looks right now we are still somehow 1st in the East and although we may slip some we have players returning who is going to lift the spirits of the team and our defense will get better and once the defense gets improved we will start winning games again. We are a great team. Fine we are not contenders now but who is say these growing pains won't have us legit contending next season? It's growing pains this is not a super team. We have to unfortunately organically grow together.

And BTW, every top team has suffered some embarrassment Bucks got beat by the pistons on their home floor lost a couple other games, nets got destroyed by the Bucks, warriors just got destroyed a few times, grizzlies just got spanked on their home floor by the mavs, it happens. So I know we are all demoralized and felling horrible right now but every fan base has had to deal with being embarrassed so far this season. We will get through it.


It's part of the process. We skipped a lot of steps, but unsurprisingly, it looks like we're not going to get away with skipping all of them. These guys have to see what's it's like for the top contenders to come at them like they're a threat. They have to see how they have to work even harder in the offseason if they want to compete with those guys. They have to learn through failure that you can't just dominate the best of the best with what's gotten you here so far (looking at you Zach...you're my one hope to evolve into someone resembling a true superstar).

Think about it for a minute. Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving and James Harden came into our house with something to prove the other night. How insane is that from where we were one year ago?

I can't think of a team that didn't go through a lot of growing pains. Someone might throw out the Suns, but they haven't won a title yet, and their window hangs on the thin thread of a small, 37 year old PG (at time of this year's conference semis) who has faded late and been dinged up in a lot of past playoff runs.

With all the injuries + starters going out (inc. our best player...not 2nd best whoever said that earlier) in two consecutive games very early with non-trivial injuries + the specific opponents + current stage of this teams maturation -- it's puzzling why people are shocked and so disgruntled at such an intense degree to these particular losses.

I'm also of the belief that if lavine stayed in the game we would have competed a lot better. Watching him go out took the heart out the team. We didn't look like ourselves at all

But once our defensive guys get back in we will start looking like our old selves again. It's still only half the season. We will be better later in the year and even better next year. This is a process. Sorry to those who thought we were going to get together and go on a miracle title run. That just doesn't happen with this kind of team. That happens when you add Durant to curry klay and Draymond. Or if wade bosh and LeBron join forces. Teams constructed like us have to suffer sometimes to become great.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#75 » by Wingy » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:40 pm

weneeda2guard wrote:I'm also of the belief that if lavine stayed in the game we would have competed a lot better. Watching him go out took the heart out the team. We didn't look like ourselves at all

But once our defensive guys get back in we will start looking like our old selves again. It's still only half the season. We will be better later in the year and even better next year. This is a process. Sorry to those who thought we were going to get together and go on a miracle title run. That just doesn't happen with this kind of team. That happens when you add Durant to curry klay and Draymond. Or if wade bosh and LeBron join forces. Teams constructed like us have to suffer sometimes to become great.


Agreed, and to have that same thing happen in back-to-back games...with someone going out right off... that must've have been crazy bizarre from the team's perspective. Being Zach made it even worse.

I still say if Zach has a short-term diagnosis to make a run this year (e.g. - Pat/DJJ for Grant trade if possible), but we all know we still wouldn't be the favorite. It would still be valuable to make a deeper, more competitive run for the things that have been discussed - the team getting the experience, and seeing what it takes (the process), and us being viewed as a real challenger on the precipice of contention for FA/disgruntled player destination purposes.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#76 » by FriedRise » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:48 pm

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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#77 » by MrSparkle » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:11 pm

I’ll wait and see today’s news before talking about what comes next.

In the meantime, the really apparent thing is that Vuc/Demar/Lonzo need to figure out how to be even half capable of leading a 5-man unit to competitive basketball. It’s not a (literal) G-League squad that gets the “short-handed” excuse.

I think they could get it together, in a slightly above average way, for the betterment of the team. Maybe Demar could help Vuc find his comfort zones. It’s still weird to me how his shooting could decline so much.

Looks like 538 was close… Vuc is the dubious starter with the massive decline.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#78 » by Land Rover » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:15 pm

That was just brutal to watch

We got absolutely smoked in every facet of the game from pretty much the start
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#79 » by nitric0 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:39 pm

Land Rover wrote:That was just brutal to watch

We got absolutely smoked in every facet of the game from pretty much the start

Second game in a row where we lost a starter to an injury out the gate. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
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Re: PG: Not contenders right now 

Post#80 » by Am2626 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:40 pm

BullChit wrote:
HOTCARL_o wrote:There next ESPN game going to be again Charlotte, they need to start showing up for these games cause the playoffs going to be nationally televised so they gotta get used to it


I honestly don't think the whole Nationally televised narrative plays any role in this teams current struggles.

We are a newly put together squad who have had tremendous success and a changed culture in less than half a season.

We are now suffering through injuries to key players and a key position that has been make shift solution after make shift solution since P.Will went down.

The next man up mentality only works for so long and the next man up is always going to be looking for light at the end of the tunnel. During the 9 game winning streak we were essentially holding back the Dam from breaking with plywood and woodglue, we all knew it and shouldn't be surprised.

Remember AKME said last year was an evaluation year and it's exactly what it was - moves were made and the team improved but to think we would instantly become a contending team without in season lapses, struggles and slumps is just nonsensical.

The goals for this season were to
1. Make the playoffs
2. Change the culture
3. Become a better situation for Free Agents to consider.

Even now after 2 massive blow outs in a row (to actual proven title contenders) AKME can tick off at least at 2 of if not all 3 of those goals.

Now as for our most pressing matter, Zach LaVine's injury and all we can do with that is Pray to Christ Almight that Zach is healthy and can continue playing the game he loves.


Do the players even realize that a game is nationally televised? I don’t think that plays any role in their game preparation or is in their minds. Regarding playoffs yeah that might get in their heads a little bit.

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