Demar’s Stellar Run a Curse in Disguise?

[HearshotKDS]

I dont think its a curse, and I trust AKME enough to not have been fooled. But judging by a lot of the comments around the trade deadline, I do think it perhaps tricked a lot of fans into believing the team as-is was something it really wasn't.

That’s right. Donovan spoke apprehensively about the team on opening day, knowing the defense was going to be an issue. And having 6 out of 9 key rotation guys with various knee issues, fractures and tears paid its price. But also, I heard the FO say “development” more than I ever heard “contend.”

I think they took an optimistic gamble at the deadline, but the non-moves also suggested they maybe didn’t want to see this undermanned team “go for it” and fall flat like last year. Cause look, there were a few back end trades they could’ve made (Torrey Craig was nabbed with a non-guaranteed/bust Jalen Smith) to improve our major weaknesses, but they didn’t go for any.

And preferring to play your sophomore starting PF after 6 months of rehab hardly sounds like a “contending” plan. I think they just really want to see how good these young guys can become with a good playoff experience.

I’m just afraid that playoff experience is in serious jeopardy. A play-in bounce would be a swift death. Perhaps motivational, but it would be largely beneficial to atleast play a series.

This is more or less what I guess looking back at deadline (as someone who wanted a "cheap" move), i assume the FO decided the team was actually farther away than a small move and didn't want to spend anything on a move that wouldnt really move the needle.

[MrSparkle]

Yeah agreed.

Demar playing like an MVP talent (which frankly he isn't) was covering up the real issues on the team.

Now he's come back to earth and we're looking like a lower half playoff team.

I just want to be healthy for the playoffs and see how the team fights in that setting.

It’s much easier to gameplan around DeMar when you don’t have to worry about Zach lighting yo up anymore. And as well as Ayo has played he doesn’t open drain 3s like Ball does or play defense as well. Vuc has just been a disappointment most of the season. We really need Patrick Williams to reach the ceiling of what many think he can become.

in the 37 games prior to limping off the floor against the warriors, zach averaged 25.6 points per game. in the 19 games since his initial return he has averaged 23.7. not exactly night and day. he can still light teams up on any given night

and derozan has averaged 32.2 a game w/ lavine out of the lineup, so teams obviously aren't having an easy time game-planning against him w/o the dual threat of lavine

Well, but besides the the drop in PPG, his TS is down closer to .600 as opposed to .660+, which means it's been in the .560 range the past half of the season.

Also his defense is very noticeably worse. He had a positive rating at the beginning, but now it's negative (worse than prior 2 seasons). Of course it's team related, but it is very apparent that he's getting burned now.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yeah agreed.

Demar playing like an MVP talent (which frankly he isn't) was covering up the real issues on the team.

Now he's come back to earth and we're looking like a lower half playoff team.

I just want to be healthy for the playoffs and see how the team fights in that setting.

It’s much easier to gameplan around DeMar when you don’t have to worry about Zach lighting yo up anymore. And as well as Ayo has played he doesn’t open drain 3s like Ball does or play defense as well. Vuc has just been a disappointment most of the season. We really need Patrick Williams to reach the ceiling of what many think he can become.

in the 37 games prior to limping off the floor against the warriors, zach averaged 25.6 points per game. in the 19 games since his initial return he has averaged 23.7. not exactly night and day. he can still light teams up on any given night

and derozan has averaged 32.2 a game w/ lavine out of the lineup, so teams obviously aren't having an easy time game-planning against him w/o the dual threat of lavine

His numbers haven’t completely tanked, but his effectiveness definitely has. It was 1a/1b situation in first half the season. Now if DeMar doesn’t drop 35 plus we are probably losing.

[dice]

It’s much easier to gameplan around DeMar when you don’t have to worry about Zach lighting yo up anymore. And as well as Ayo has played he doesn’t open drain 3s like Ball does or play defense as well. Vuc has just been a disappointment most of the season. We really need Patrick Williams to reach the ceiling of what many think he can become.

in the 37 games prior to limping off the floor against the warriors, zach averaged 25.6 points per game. in the 19 games since his initial return he has averaged 23.7. not exactly night and day. he can still light teams up on any given night

and derozan has averaged 32.2 a game w/ lavine out of the lineup, so teams obviously aren't having an easy time game-planning against him w/o the dual threat of lavine

Well, but besides the the drop in PPG, his TS is down closer to .600 as opposed to .660+, which means it's been in the .560 range the past half of the season.

it was never that far over 60% this season. since injury it's 59.2%. scoring hasn't been the issue with lavine

Also his defense is very noticeably worse. He had a positive rating at the beginning, but now it's negative (worse than prior 2 seasons). Of course it's team related, but it is very apparent that he's getting burned now.

that may well be. i'm just noting that derozan's struggles over the past 10 games (50.6% TS) have little to do with lavine

[Wingy]

I made a longer post, but have a more nutshell thought.

It’s somewhat of a “curse” because DeMar’s play is largely responsible for the raising of expectations around here. Those high expectations are why much of the board’s standing on the ledge right now.

Shouldn’t be taken as blame pointed at DeMar, not at all. It’s just what happened, and is more on us fans than anything.

[sco]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2022/3/20/22987675/blueprint-handcuffing-bulls-offense-so-whats-the-counter

[JordansBulls]

Looks like 5th seed is our ceiling now with how Boston is playing. Could fall to 7th if we lose to Toronto tomorrow.

[Axl Rose]

Yeah they have got a bit lazy. The effort they showed at the beginning of the season just hasn't been there. Injuries to guys like Caruso and Ball hurt as allot of energy came from them playing passing lanes and getting on the break.

[Wingy]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2022/3/20/22987675/blueprint-handcuffing-bulls-offense-so-whats-the-counter

[Wingy]

Yeah they have got a bit lazy. The effort they showed at the beginning of the season just hasn't been there. Injuries to guys like Caruso and Ball hurt as allot of energy came from them playing passing lanes and getting on the break.

In addition, Zach’s knee is big. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think he would’ve had a superstar performance or two that would’ve won us some key games, and stopped the momentum of the current downward spiral. Ive seen some good stretches, but I don’t remember the last time I thought - damn, Zach’s on fire.

[sco]

Yeah they have got a bit lazy. The effort they showed at the beginning of the season just hasn't been there. Injuries to guys like Caruso and Ball hurt as allot of energy came from them playing passing lanes and getting on the break.

In addition, Zach’s knee is big. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think he would’ve had a superstar performance or two that would’ve won us some key games, and stopped the momentum of the current downward spiral. Ive seen some good stretches, but I don’t remember the last time I thought - damn, Zach’s on fire.

Yeah, this is undervalued as a key issue. If there's a silver lining, optimistically his knee isn't chronic, we'll gain some roster flexibility if we resign Zach for "just" the max.

[samwana]

Haven't posted very much this season because I've been savoring how much better this team is than any other that we've had since the Rose years.

Actually, at this point in the Bulls season, my interest has turned to Billy Donovan.

I'm happy with the players but I'm not 100% happy with their preparation.

There are many games where I feel that the other team's staff has better prepared their players for the Bulls.

I have to hope this will change during the playoffs. But, if not, I seen a 1st round elimination coming.

that's it for me as well.

our defense is gone for most part of all games and our offense is so predictable that you can see what's going to happen as soon as the ball is being brought up. my husband and me are betting through the game who is right more often. and they play against pro players that know exactly what play comes up, no wonder it's boring and not working.

it's up to the coach to change the way they start the game, the way they play offense, defense, it's like we completely lost our composure and letting ddr and zach go 1on1 all the time is disgusting and unwatchable. we're back to being unwatchable.
role players can't play their role if they are not getting a chance to play their role, simple. ddr going up against 2 or 3 opponents is plain stupid, zach shooting step back difficult jumpers early in the clock just the same.
why does bd allow that? why doesn't he get them back to teamball?


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[Mr. Tibbs]

With the team’s recent decline record wise, it seems the identity of the team has changed as well. Earlier in the season this team was a joy to watch. Beyond the injuries, the team had a much more pleasurable to watch style of play. They moved the ball.

Don’t get me wrong, Demar has been awesome, but it seems his evolution into the teams clear alpha has changed the identity of this team for the worse. Now everyone on the team expects the 4th quarter to be Demar time as we’ve gotten away from the team basketball style of play we had earlier in the season. It’s awesome to watch when he has it going, but truthfully this style of play makes us worse and much easier to game plan for IMO… especially come playoff time (and we already know about his playoff reputation).

It's hard for me to get on board because the fact is that in the playoffs, what DeMar brings to the table is even more important as defenses become more familiar with the offense over the span of a series.

Having said that, I agree that I miss the cohesion that we once had the pleasure of witnessing. I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of defense to offense transition plays that were once a hallmark. When we're able to convert on those transition buckets, our confidence goes up and we're more willing to share the ball and more confident to hit open shots.

Lonzo really had such a good feel for getting everyone involved, and the combination of AC/Zo steals plus Lonzo generated transition offense swung a lot of games our way. Such a bummer that Zo doesn't seem to be responding to the rehab well.

[JockItch43]

After that dramatic Celtics win, we are the team that can't do ANYTHING when it gets punched in the mouth.

I liked that team identity from November - December when the roles were fluid and the minutes and the basketball was being distributed. It was about the team's defense, everyone was shooting threes, Zach and Demar were an actual duo, not Demar as the lone and sole king of the mid-range.

This team looks like it has zero chemistry when the team other team has its number.

The team's identity right now is too caught up in fixed roles and fixed playing time. I don't like when ANYONE just gets time just because, no matter if its Demar, Vuc, Coby, Caruso.

This quote taken from the Heat PG thread basically sums up the point I was trying to make. The curse I’m referring to is the team’s identity… it definitely took a turn for the worse. Maybe we weren’t as good as we showed, but no way are we as bad as we are currently showing.

By far the most confusing and disappointing season I can remember as a fan.

[RoyceDa59]

Bulls have really missed Lonzo Ball. Everything went down hill when he got hurt.

[RSP83]

I disagree with curse in disguise view. At least DeMar should not be blamed for it. Michael Jordan can only play like Michael Jordan, that's his instinct. That's what DeMar do. It's the same with the Westbrook situation in LA. The only difference is DeMar's game fits better with the Bulls, than Westbrook's in LA. When it comes down to this situation, how to get the best out of your established veterans, I generally turn to the coach more than the player.

When you sign a player like that you know what you're getting. Of course that player must embrace the team culture and strategy as well, which IMO DeMar have shown nothing but support since day 1. While on the other hand, Westbrook maybe not so much (don't shoot me on this, I don't follow the Lakers too closely). It really comes down to the coach and the team itself on what you want this player to be for you.

For DeMar, he quickly established himself as a veteran leader who can help you win games in clutch situation. His teammates embrace this, how can they not when DeMar saves the team numerous time and put up historic Chamberlainian performance this season? IMO team dynamics is fluid, players will naturally develop that hierarchy based on what happen on the court, unconcsciously. So I don't blame DeMar or his teammates.

Now the coaching staff,they're the one that needs to be questioned... they're the one holding the leash, and the one with the grand plan. We've seen this before, Doug Collins and Phil Jackson. Both had MJ. Doug's approach was more "get the ball to Michael, and get out of the way". Phil's on the other hand saw MJ as one of the pieces in his game plan. He designed a role for Scottie, Horace, Cartwright, and stuck to it. Same with DeMar, he's going to be DeMar. It's up to the coaching how you want to utilize him.

So if the situation is indeed go out of hand and DeMar is going out of control, if I'm the GM, I'd ask the coach, why didn't you intervene? Did you try to make the intervention? Or is this your plan all along? I seriously think the DeMar situation is definitely fixable. I've followed enough of DeMar's interview to know that DeMar would definitely listen. That dude is probably one of the most likeable superstar in the league (yes, he is a superstar).

ADD: I hear a lot about NBA being player's league. While I don't disagree with it, good coaching differentiates good teams and the really best teams. Bud in Miwaukee, Spo in Miami. To name a few. So good coaching still matters, a lot IMO.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yes a guy vastly exceeding expectations and playing at an All-NBA level is curse. /s

Playing bad is bad. Playing great is bad. Ugh.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yeah they have got a bit lazy. The effort they showed at the beginning of the season just hasn't been there. Injuries to guys like Caruso and Ball hurt as allot of energy came from them playing passing lanes and getting on the break.

In addition, Zach’s knee is big. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think he would’ve had a superstar performance or two that would’ve won us some key games, and stopped the momentum of the current downward spiral. Ive seen some good stretches, but I don’t remember the last time I thought - damn, Zach’s on fire.

Yeah, this is undervalued as a key issue. If there's a silver lining, optimistically his knee isn't chronic, we'll gain some roster flexibility if we resign Zach for "just" the max.

Every was worried he would qualify for the super max. Well they got the monkey paw version of their wish and now they are losing faith.

[MrSparkle]

Bulls have really missed Lonzo Ball. Everything went down hill when he got hurt.

Everything went down hill when 7 rotation players, inc. 4 starters got hurt.

Caruso's shooting hand (wrist) broke. He looked like a better offensive player the first 2 months of the season. Lot of guys haven't been able to get in peak conditioning, instead we have some finding their legs and others getting fatigued from shouldering loads, playing small and hitting walls.

Refuse to believe that one player here was that important, besides Demar.

[Michael Jackson]

ADD: I hear a lot about NBA being player's league. While I don't disagree with it, good coaching differentiates good teams and the really best teams. Bud in Miwaukee, Spo in Miami. To name a few. So good coaching still matters, a lot IMO.

It’s true but Spo was supposed to be fired in Miami a long time ago. Last year Bud wasn’t going to make it through the year, up to the ecf he was on the hot seat playing for his job. Both are obviously great coaches. Spo has impressed me over his career more than I can say.