PG: We made the playoffs

[DuckIII]

[pl
We're neither an underdog team with upset potential nor a championship contender. And for a fan that's frustrating. The worst kind of treadmil.

In the context of team building there is an immense difference between being unlikely to reach the 2nd round in a given year vs. being a “treadmill” team.

A treadmill team, by definition, does not have the assets to improve in any meaningful way over the course of years and therefore is forced to just sell everything off and start over. That is not the position the Bulls currently are in.

I may be overly emphasizing your use of one word, but we are not currently positioned as a treadmill team.

I get it. Yeah, it's not a treadmill team in that sense. Of course we can still try to improve next year. What I meant is this team is just walking on the same spot, no matter how fast they run, they're not going to best the good teams.

Definitely not this year we aren’t. Not good enough or healthy enough. But the postseason will still provide value to these players. They need the experience.

[MrSparkle]

After being one of the biggest Vuc defenders… seeing him lay bricks for the whole first month… I had a bad feeling about Vuc. Healthy vet “all stars” don’t brick open shots for the first 20 games of a season.

My hopes on this season had a lot to do with him playing better, making the game easier for our less talented scorers (Caruso, Javonte, inconsistent Coby, Pat). Instead he seemingly shrunk more than anybody on the roster. And it’s plain disappointing. I acknowledge his job wasn’t easy at times, but was Demar’s?

Without a doubt, he was the worst C in the NBA on many nights this season. Atleast 20 games, his game score was in single digits. So over a quarter of the season, he was unable to outproduce an average scrub… and that’s on top of his 24/7 defensive liability (which is supposed to be hedged by being a good floor spacer, reliable scorer/threat).

Just a reminder, he was dominated by one night heroes like Sharpe, Mo Wagner.. he couldn’t score on them.

My eyes could often not believe the NBA incompetence, especially compared to the 2 month window from last year where… he was a pretty efficient scorer. Although the high losing rate should’ve been a hint of things to come.

He’s a sunk cost. I think he’s merely an expiring contract. No one is attaching anything of value back. Too late to worry about the 2023 pick owed. AK has some work to do.

I think the injuries first and foremost killed the Bulls this year… particularly losing 2 starters… but make no mistake, Vuc’s implosion was the nail in the coffin. Especially as teams figured out just how low his floor is. Many Cs had season highs against the Bulls this season.

Lauri, Wendell, and now Vuc. I want them all out of my life. Please let’s just check Luc Longley into the game.

[imagge]

News flash the Bulls were NOT suppose to make the playoffs and were picked to finished 11th in the east! How can you be disappointed in a season that you were expected to be lottery team and end up making the playoffs. Those of you who are disappointed were delusional in the first place by thinking this was a finished product. Playoff experience is needed, sweep or whatever. My only disappointment is that Zo won’t play in it. Proud of the team for pushing through and moving up the first step. The Bulls are not a treadmill team if this is the first season on the wheel….let’s see where this goes and Lets Go Bulls!

The Bulls played the first half of the season as one of the best teams in the NBA.
The Bulls played the second half of the season as one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Anyone who thinks that is normal or a fan who isn't bothered by that is "delusional".

You answered your own question the Bulls are currently a middle of the road team…they played way above their heads early and way below their ability late which makes them an average team which is being better than they have been in the last 4 years. So no I am not bothered because I expected them to be average and all they did was prove me right…the Bulls are who I thought they were an average team who would finish 6 and below if they played above their heads would get to the fourth seed….seems like fans that took the beginning of the season for who the Bulls were as a team were blinded and yeah a little delusional

[MrSparkle]

News flash the Bulls were NOT suppose to make the playoffs and were picked to finished 11th in the east! How can you be disappointed in a season that you were expected to be lottery team and end up making the playoffs. Those of you who are disappointed were delusional in the first place by thinking this was a finished product. Playoff experience is needed, sweep or whatever. My only disappointment is that Zo won’t play in it. Proud of the team for pushing through and moving up the first step. The Bulls are not a treadmill team if this is the first season on the wheel….let’s see where this goes and Lets Go Bulls!

The Bulls played the first half of the season as one of the best teams in the NBA.
The Bulls played the second half of the season as one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Anyone who thinks that is normal or a fan who isn't bothered by that is "delusional".

You answered your own question the Bulls are currently a middle of the road team…they played way above their heads early and way below their ability late which makes them an average team which is being better than they have been in the last 4 years. So no I am not bothered because I expected them to be average and all they did was prove me right…the Bulls are who I thought they were an average team who would finish 6 and below if they played above their heads would get to the fourth seed….seems like fans that took the beginning of the season for who the Bulls were as a team were blinded and yeah a little delusional

I mean, it took multiple season long injuries to starters and 6th men for you to be “proven right.” They were above average until our top 3 guards Zach, Lonzo and Caruso started missing time, and then we also lost almost an entire depth chart of forwards to broken fingers and sprains. Now Caruso is playing with a bad back and shooting wrist.

Just think it’s a little convenient saying “yeah this is who I thought they were, just like I predicted.”

Did you expect so many injuries?

And if not, do you honestly think a more healthy roster would’ve still only won 45 games? They were clearly on track for 50. Even with some dips. Which would’ve put them in 1st seed.

[umfan83]

I think the thing that sticks out most is the lack of pride when they play against good teams. They just don't care.

Not true at all. They care. There flawed system and defensive schemes are awful. All you gotta do is play hard and make 3 or 4 passes till someone gets lazy and allows the other team to score. Vuc just gets attacked at will. Bulls lack a Ben Wallace type player.

On offense it's just not enough effort. What does it take to get these players fired up. Any team with a desire to win and has talent will always beat this helpless team. There in the playoffs but we all know a sweep is coming.

This was one of my concerns at the beginning of the season. They lack an emotional leader of the team. They don’t have a Draymond Green and Joakim Noah that can galvanize the troops. Everybody is too laid back they need someone that is going to light a fire underneath them.

This. There is something missing beyond basketball that causes a team to play like a 4-78 team against elite competition with more than half the games being blowouts and a 63-19 team against everyone else. There is no way its just lack of talent, or elite teams playing the bulls harder or whatever. I cant personally explain what that missing element is, but its definitely something. It's not a gradual scale of the Bulls getting worse as the competition increases, its a dramatic cutoff

Record against teams with .600 winning percentage: 2-21
Record against teams with .540-.599 winning percentage: 10-3
Record against teams with .480-.539 winning percentage: 9-2
Record against teams below .480 winning percentage: 24-9

Some of it could be the fact that a large majority of those games against .600 winning percentage teams were all bunched together in the last third of the season when the Bulls were clearly a worse team for several reasons, but they were still 2-12 against them before that post-ASB stretch started.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Hopefully the Bulls rest their starters the rest of the way. 5th or 6th doesn’t matter at this point, and the lower seed gets a better pick.

Right now they’re at 19th, but if they lose to Minnesota could get to 18th, which feels like it could net a good player. Maybe even package it with Coby and move up to the late lottery and get a core piece.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

A couple things I’m amazed by that seem to not get talked about much.

1. There is no accountability held against Vuc. He’s never missed a scheduled rotation in a game, which has pretty directly led to losses (Memphis comes to mind). He has the green light to do whatever he wants. That’s a failure on Billy. Nothing negative he does ever matters to his play time.

This team came screaming out of the gates to start the season, when most experienced teams take it slow and understand it’s a marathon. And now this team looks gassed, lifeless. All the more reason to sit these last 3 games.

[MalagaBulls]

Lonzo Ball. I believe they are now 18-22 in games he hasn't played (I might be 1 game off). Of course, many of those Caruso was missing or playing hurt as well. When Ayo and Coby are getting bunches of minutes....

The more troubling thing to me is that even early on they couldn't come up with a win against the best teams, although some of those games were close.

They are a healthy roster plus one player away from making serious noise.

Over the past 15 games, Chicago is the 5th worst team in the NBA by net rating, 9th worst by record. That's with having everyone except for Ball playing most of those games.

I was one of the more optimistic posters coming into the season and early on. I can't deny or really explain what is going on right now. This is not a good team and they are much more than Lonzo Ball away from being good.

I believe that you were pretty negative about Donovan earlier and quite frankly, I think that's a big factor. At some point, teams seemed to figure out Chicago's simplistic schemes and since then the team has struggled, which in turn has had a noticeable impact on confidence.

Agreed. A healthy roster, including Ball, plus one quality starting big...and yeah, likely a new coach. I think that coaching weakness was one of the reasons they couldn't get over the hump against good teams, even when they were playing well,

Of course, not sure we can count on Lonzo ever being healthy at a normal NBA level, and maybe not Caruso either after the beating he endured this season.

I highly doubt BD is going anywhere. He has 2 years & 12M left on his contract. I also can't see Michael R signing off on eating that contract, maybe after next season.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Without a doubt, he was the worst C in the NBA on many nights this season

An NBA center, nearly 7' tall, played 26 minutes and went 3-19 from the field and only grabbed 6 boards. How the hell does a center go 3-19? 16% from the field....as a starting big in the NBA. Inexcusable.

And you're right, it's not just been a stinker here or there. Nor is it always his jumpers that hurt his fg%. He misses bunnies left and right.

Can't wait to see him off of this team. Seems like a nice guy, solid teammate, blah blah blah, but he's not an NBA caliber center playing like that, much less a starter on a playoff team.

[Stratmaster]

Over the past 15 games, Chicago is the 5th worst team in the NBA by net rating, 9th worst by record. That's with having everyone except for Ball playing most of those games.

I was one of the more optimistic posters coming into the season and early on. I can't deny or really explain what is going on right now. This is not a good team and they are much more than Lonzo Ball away from being good.

I believe that you were pretty negative about Donovan earlier and quite frankly, I think that's a big factor. At some point, teams seemed to figure out Chicago's simplistic schemes and since then the team has struggled, which in turn has had a noticeable impact on confidence.

Agreed. A healthy roster, including Ball, plus one quality starting big...and yeah, likely a new coach. I think that coaching weakness was one of the reasons they couldn't get over the hump against good teams, even when they were playing well,

Of course, not sure we can count on Lonzo ever being healthy at a normal NBA level, and maybe not Caruso either after the beating he endured this season.

I highly doubt BD is going anywhere. He has 2 years & 12M left on his contract. I also can't see Michael R signing off on eating that contract, maybe after next season.

Yeah I agree. What i want and what i will get are 2 different things. And frankly... who knows if they did replace him if the next guy would be any better

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[panthermark]

After being one of the biggest Vuc defenders… seeing him lay bricks for the whole first month… I had a bad feeling about Vuc. Healthy vet “all stars” don’t brick open shots for the first 20 games of a season.

My hopes on this season had a lot to do with him playing better, making the game easier for our less talented scorers (Caruso, Javonte, inconsistent Coby, Pat). Instead he seemingly shrunk more than anybody on the roster. And it’s plain disappointing. I acknowledge his job wasn’t easy at times, but was Demar’s?

Without a doubt, he was the worst C in the NBA on many nights this season. Atleast 20 games, his game score was in single digits. So over a quarter of the season, he was unable to outproduce an average scrub… and that’s on top of his 24/7 defensive liability (which is supposed to be hedged by being a good floor spacer, reliable scorer/threat).

Just a reminder, he was dominated by one night heroes like Sharpe, Mo Wagner.. he couldn’t score on them.

My eyes could often not believe the NBA incompetence, especially compared to the 2 month window from last year where… he was a pretty efficient scorer. Although the high losing rate should’ve been a hint of things to come.

He’s a sunk cost. I think he’s merely an expiring contract. No one is attaching anything of value back. Too late to worry about the 2023 pick owed. AK has some work to do.

I think the injuries first and foremost killed the Bulls this year… particularly losing 2 starters… but make no mistake, Vuc’s implosion was the nail in the coffin. Especially as teams figured out just how low his floor is. Many Cs had season highs against the Bulls this season.

Lauri, Wendell, and now Vuc. I want them all out of my life. Please let’s just check Luc Longley into the game.

I'm still foolishly holding out hope on Vuc.
I don't know what the hell happened to him, but yeah...he feels like a sunk cost at this point.

[sco]

After being one of the biggest Vuc defenders… seeing him lay bricks for the whole first month… I had a bad feeling about Vuc. Healthy vet “all stars” don’t brick open shots for the first 20 games of a season.

My hopes on this season had a lot to do with him playing better, making the game easier for our less talented scorers (Caruso, Javonte, inconsistent Coby, Pat). Instead he seemingly shrunk more than anybody on the roster. And it’s plain disappointing. I acknowledge his job wasn’t easy at times, but was Demar’s?

Without a doubt, he was the worst C in the NBA on many nights this season. Atleast 20 games, his game score was in single digits. So over a quarter of the season, he was unable to outproduce an average scrub… and that’s on top of his 24/7 defensive liability (which is supposed to be hedged by being a good floor spacer, reliable scorer/threat).

Just a reminder, he was dominated by one night heroes like Sharpe, Mo Wagner.. he couldn’t score on them.

My eyes could often not believe the NBA incompetence, especially compared to the 2 month window from last year where… he was a pretty efficient scorer. Although the high losing rate should’ve been a hint of things to come.

He’s a sunk cost. I think he’s merely an expiring contract. No one is attaching anything of value back. Too late to worry about the 2023 pick owed. AK has some work to do.

I think the injuries first and foremost killed the Bulls this year… particularly losing 2 starters… but make no mistake, Vuc’s implosion was the nail in the coffin. Especially as teams figured out just how low his floor is. Many Cs had season highs against the Bulls this season.

Lauri, Wendell, and now Vuc. I want them all out of my life. Please let’s just check Luc Longley into the game.

I'm still foolishly holding out hope on Vuc.
I don't know what the hell happened to him, but yeah...he feels like a sunk cost at this point.

Is it crazy that I want him to play in summer league? Sorta kidding. He seems to have lost confidence in his game. I can't remember him having a good game against any competent defending C this season. His 3pt shot doesn't scare opponents and he rushes his bunnies when there is any sort of rim protection.

[imagge]

I mean, it took multiple season long injuries to starters and 6th men for you to be “proven right.” They were above average until our top 3 guards Zach, Lonzo and Caruso started missing time, and then we also lost almost an entire depth chart of forwards to broken fingers and sprains. Now Caruso is playing with a bad back and shooting wrist.

Just think it’s a little convenient saying “yeah this is who I thought they were, just like I predicted.”

Did you expect so many injuries?

And if not, do you honestly think a more healthy roster would’ve still only won 45 games? They were clearly on track for 50. Even with some dips. Which would’ve put them in 1st seed.

Not convenient at all I saw what they were back in early December and if you listened to BD he told you back then...

1. They started to slide defensively in the little things, effort back in December.
2. Of everyone added shooting was still an issue. Love Zo but up until the beginning of the year he was a career 36% shooter, AC a career 36% shooter from 3 42% FG (also not a great finisher) DJJ never has been a shooter.
3. I unlike many thought DD and Zach would be a great match because neither heavily operated in the other's space.
4. The Bulls started with no legit PFs on the roster??? One long athletic SF in PWill.

Yes I expected them to be slightly above average offensively and slightly below avg defensively which puts you right in the middle. Again the experts picked the Bulls to finish 11th in the east. I expected them to make the playoffs but not as a top 3 seed. Even in the 9 game winning streak The Bulls were not playing complete games some due to injuries, some due to lack of personnel that is not currently on the roster. As a matter of fact given all that has happened to the roster

1. Losing PWill early
2. Covid issues
3. Zach early hand injuy then knee issues
4. AC wrist injury
5. Zo Knee injury
6. Vuc having the worst offensive year of his career
7. DJJ going out with finger issues
8. Coby starting the season recovering from shoulder injury

BD has done a remarkable job just allowing this team to limp to the playoffs, If I knew all those things would happen then I would expected the Bulls to maybe be fighting for the 10th seed.

[MrSparkle]

I mean, it took multiple season long injuries to starters and 6th men for you to be “proven right.” They were above average until our top 3 guards Zach, Lonzo and Caruso started missing time, and then we also lost almost an entire depth chart of forwards to broken fingers and sprains. Now Caruso is playing with a bad back and shooting wrist.

Just think it’s a little convenient saying “yeah this is who I thought they were, just like I predicted.”

Did you expect so many injuries?

And if not, do you honestly think a more healthy roster would’ve still only won 45 games? They were clearly on track for 50. Even with some dips. Which would’ve put them in 1st seed.

Not convenient at all I saw what they were back in early December and if you listened to BD he told you back then...

1. They started to slide defensively in the little things, effort back in December.
2. Of everyone added shooting was still an issue. Love Zo but up until the beginning of the year he was a career 36% shooter, AC a career 36% shooter from 3 42% FG (also not a great finisher) DJJ never has been a shooter.
3. I unlike many thought DD and Zach would be a great match because neither heavily operated in the other's space.
4. The Bulls started with no legit PFs on the roster??? One long athletic SF in PWill.

Yes I expected them to be slightly above average offensively and slightly below avg defensively which puts you right in the middle. Again the experts picked the Bulls to finish 11th in the east. I expected them to make the playoffs but not as a top 3 seed. Even in the 9 game winning streak The Bulls were not playing complete games some due to injuries, some due to lack of personnel that is not currently on the roster. As a matter of fact given all that has happened to the roster

1. Losing PWill early
2. Covid issues
3. Zach early hand injuy then knee issues
4. AC wrist injury
5. Zo Knee injury
6. Vuc having the worst offensive year of his career
7. DJJ going out with finger issues
8. Coby starting the season recovering from shoulder injury

BD has done a remarkable job just allowing this team to limp to the playoffs, If I knee all those things would happen then I would expected the Bulls to maybe be fighting for the 10th seed.

I don't disagree with the flaws the roster showed in the beginning. But just cause a roster is flawed doesn't mean it's going to suck. 8-11th seeds suck. The roster was deep as hell. That's why they won 45 games despite a myriad of injuries. BTW 45 wins has traditionally been good for a 4 seed in the East.

My floor was around 6th or 7th seed in a worst-case scenario, and seeing the volume of injuries and Vuc playing worse than I could've possibly imagined... I'd say a #1 seed ceiling was totally valid. Especially since we were there for 3 months. Certainly walking into a potential major 1st or 2nd round upset, because regular season records don't mean that much.

I do think we were a legit dark-horse contender. But at least 6 of those 8 things you listed couldn't have happened. That's more than your usual share of things gone wrong. Which granted, happened to 2 super teams who theoretically had chips in the bag (Clippers and Nets).

[kodo]

Caruso still being significantly hurt was confirmed today, he's listed as doubtful for the game due to the back. Really shouldn't have been playing him at all, we're risking him not being 100% for the 1st round. And it's not like him going 0-4 is helping much in-game.