Rank the Bulls assets

[League Circles]

We don't have many guys under contract this summer to potentially make trades with. How do you all think they stack up in terms of A) value on the trade market and B) value to the Bulls?

For me it's probably like this:

Trade value:
1. Demar
2. Williams
3. Vuc
4. Caruso
5. Coby
6. Ball
7. Ayo
8. Green

Value to Bulls:
1. Demar
2. Ball
3. Vuc
4. Williams
5. Ayo
6. Coby
7. Caruso
8. Green

If I'm correct, it might make more sense to dangle Coby, Caruso and maybe Patrick in trade offers than the other guys.

[League Circles]

I only think Caruso has less value to the Bulls than in trade because of Lonzo and Ayo and their contract realities. I love Caruso as a player. Ball I think teams are likely very cautious about his health right now, but he stands to help us a LOT.

[DuckIII]

Value to the Bulls. Is that limited to just next year?

[DuckIII]

Trade value:

1. Demar (someone out there desperate to contend could offer some really nice value for him in my opinion).

2. Williams (thank god he came back this season and showed flashes to up his value - but I have very little interest in trading him unless part of something major)

3. Caruso (very reasonable contract, his play in Chicago and the death of the Lakers have upped his value)

4. Vuc (expiring next summer and has a nice skill set many teams could use but in a more complimentary role than he plays here)

5. Ball (injury history, pretty big contract, not the type of PG many teams prefer)

6. Ayo (could really be a terrific sweetener to push a deal through).

You also listed Coby and Green, and I assign no stand alone value to either. They are just contracts for math.

Value to Bulls:

1. Ball (makes the rest of it work a lot better, need his three ball, defense and decision making)

2. Williams (the most important player on the team because he’s the only unknown on the roster with the type of upside that could propel us forward)

3. Zach (he’s better than the first two guys, but I may be ascribing “value” differently than you - max him and forget about it)

4. DDR (his isolation style will never take a back seat in Chicago like it should, and I believe he has the trade value to improve the team by moving on, his age matters too)

5. AC (need the D, guts and brains)

6. Ayo (somewhat redundant of AC and Ball in his current form, but will evolve into more of a scorer than has shown)

7. Vuc (signing better interior defenders will help raise Vuc’s value to the Bulls, but I’m willing to trade him for a role player off the bench, I prefer to load up on interior D despite our poor offensive showing in the playoffs)

8. Green (has negative value as currently used and should never play in that capacity unless about 9 guys are injured - might be the most overrated role player to ever wear a Bulls uniform (given the way he’s used, which isn’t even fair to him)).

Coby has no value to the Bulls.

[League Circles]

Value to the Bulls. Is that limited to just next year?

I guess I think of it as value relative to each other, so contract status definitely matters. It's one reason. I rate Caruso as being more valuable to another team than us. For another team his 3 remaining cheapish years would be attractive. For us, considering we have Ball. Signed for just as long and Ayo on the cheap, being committed to a similar guy in Caruso for another 3 years isn't ideal when we have other holes.

[dice]

ayo, p-will, caruso, green, derozan in some order. all more valuable than their contracts

[LateNight]

I get the redundancy issue, but I would be very hesitant to move any of Ball/Caruso/Ayo.

Edit: to make this more relevant I’ve added this next bit.

Essentially, I think each of those three players has far more value to us than they do on the market. Because Lonzo can switch and hit 3s, he covers our weaknesses. But his injuries and the fact that he’s not a half-court PG make him less valuable on the market.

Caruso has trade value, but again, his impact on our team is better than the return. Best offer alone is probably a mid-late 1st and lesser talent. Possible lateral move for a less impactful player at a different position.

Ayo has some value, but his contract limits his trade value. If Flipping him for a Late first round pick, you’d be lucky to get back a player as good as Ayo.

Not to mention, if you trade any of them, you basically need to sign another point guard because there’s a strong possibility Caruso or Ball are injured for a stretch. Anyone we sign is most likely low salary and worse than those 3.

For that reason, I’d say our best trade assets are Zach, Demar, Vuc, Pat, our pick, Coby, Portland pick.

Pat’s potential probably outweighs his market value right now.

The pick is more valuable to us because we need the cheap, long contract.

I can see a situation where Zach (money) or DeMar (age) could be seen as more valuable as assets than players - but if you lose either one, it’s a gigantic hole to fill and a semi-rebuild.

And Vuc’s value has been explained - may be more impactful playing than any return you’d get for him.

Coby and the Portland pick are question marks.

[kodo]

1. Lavine S&T
2. Ball
3. Derozan
4. Caruso
5. Dosunmu
6. 2022 18th pick
7. Williams
8. Portland pick

Rest: not much positive value

Derozan isn't going to be that much in demand because almost no other team is focused on a mid range 2 offense and he has a rep of being useless in the playoffs, which he didn't dispel this season. He was called the worst signing of last summer, and while he's proven that somewhat wrong, lots of people feel vindicated after the playoffs. Also factor in the very low defense and age.

I've never seen any fan of another team even acknowledge Williams exists. Can't think of another team that thinks Patrick Williams is a solution to something, either a core for a rebuilding team, or some kind of key piece for a contender. There was a lot more admiration for Ayo around the league.

I think Coby's value has gone down since the deadline, as he'll now make $7.5M next season and then he has to be extended and who knows how much he thinks he's worth. Utterly disastrous playoff showing as well, 8 ppg on 27% 3P shooting. I don't think he's worth more than the $7.5M he's owed, so he's probably not a positive asset.

[sco]

1. Lavine S&T
2. Ball
3. Derozan
4. Caruso
5. Dosunmu
6. 2022 18th pick
7. Williams
8. Portland pick

Rest: not much positive value

Derozan isn't going to be that much in demand because almost no other team is focused on a mid range 2 offense and he has a rep of being useless in the playoffs, which he didn't dispel this season. He was called the worst signing of last summer, and while he's proven that somewhat wrong, lots of people feel vindicated after the playoffs. Also factor in the very low defense and age.

I've never seen any fan of another team even acknowledge Williams exists. Can't think of another team that thinks Patrick Williams is a solution to something, either a core for a rebuilding team, or some kind of key piece for a contender. There was a lot more admiration for Ayo around the league.

I think Coby's value has gone down since the deadline, as he'll now make $7.5M next season and then he has to be extended and who knows how much he thinks he's worth. Utterly disastrous playoff showing as well, 8 ppg on 27% 3P shooting. I don't think he's worth more than the $7.5M he's owed, so he's probably not a positive asset.

I think Williams has value in trade, but there is zero chance he's traded. There is way too much org focus on his development.

I agree on DeRozan. He's worth more to us than what we'd get in return. Forgetting what he brings on the court. He has made a difference already to guys like Zach, Ayo, Coby and Pat with his leadership.

I also agree on Coby. IMO he doesn't even have a late 1st rounder value anymore. Seems to me that we see how he comes back next season to see if he steps up and grows. Maybe he becomes a guy who is a keeper as a backup SG, but I don't think he is there now. We can shop him at the deadline, we can try a S&T next offseason, or see if he's keepable for around $7M/yr.

[TheSuzerain]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

[sco]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

I just hope we don't extend him this offseason.

[PlayerUp]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

If this turns out to be the case, then he won't be moved and Bulls will play out his contract possibly look to re-sign him for much cheaper like a Brook Lopez type contract.

[PlayerUp]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

I just hope we don't extend him this offseason.

What if Vucevic is willing to sign for 2/20 with a player option on 2024-25 season? Then we use Vucevic more as an off the bench punch versus playing with the starters? Vucevic does have value just we're overpaying for him. Bobby Portis putting up 15/11 tonight and getting paid $4.3m/yr.

[HomoSapien]

I would rank Caruso ahead of Ayo in terms of value to the Bulls. Arguably the teams best defender, but inarguably the team’s leader.

[sco]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

I just hope we don't extend him this offseason.

What if Vucevic is willing to sign for 2/20 with a player option on 2014-15 season? Then we use Vucevic more as an off the bench punch versus playing with the starters? Vucevic does have value just we're overpaying for him. Bobby Portis putting up 15/11 tonight and getting paid $4.3m/yr.

Vuc might sign a deal like that, but not on an extension. He's coming from very high salary and, IMO, it will take the market to tell him he's worth less than half that, and that won't happen until next season.

[MikeDC]

Value to Bulls
1. DeMar
2. Zach
3. Pat
4. Caruso
5. Ball
6. Vuc
7. 2022 FRP
8. Ayo
9. Coby
10. Javonte

Value to League
1. Zach
2. Pat
3. Caruso
4. DeMar
5. Vuc
6. Coby
7. 2022 FRP
8. Ball
9. Ayo
10. Javonte

Trade Likelihood (Value to Bulls - Value to League) A guiding principle to think about this.
+3 Coby
+1 Zach
+1 Caruso
+1 Vuc
+1 Pat
0 2022 FRP
0 Javonte
-1 Ayo
-3 DeMar
-3 Ball

1/2. Zach S&T. Almost every team would consider adding Zach if it were an option for them. This is especially true of playoff teams. One can imagine him fitting in really well with the Sixers, Nets, Bucks, Lakers, Mavs, for example. If you're a team on the cusp of the playoffs, like Charlotte or San Antonio, you could imagine him being a big step up. Most teams would at least make an offer, even if it's not the kind of offer we'd want.

I put his value to the Bulls as 2, because I think there are several factors that make him less valuable to the Bulls than DeRozan. This is somewhat subjective, but I ultimately think his value to the Bulls is lower than Demar's because I can imagine S&T scenarios where the Bulls don't crater if they trade Zach. Like, suppose we did a S&T of Zach for Brunson and Tim Hardaway. I think with DeRozan, that's still a 6-8 seed playoff team but younger and with more salary flexibility. Having Brunson on a non-max deal vs. Zach on the max with a history of knee problems weighs into this as well.

On the other hand, if 1/4 DeMar were traded for, like, the best case scenario I can imagine... maybe a guy like Miles Bridges in a complicated 3 way deal, we'd get younger, but I don't know that we're as good. I can't define the attitude that DeMar brings, but he's, for both better and worse, the alpha dog here. So that gives him extra value to the Bulls.

4/3 Caruso. Again... every team going to the playoffs would love a guy like this. They'd make room for him, even. The only player on the Bulls who kind of stepped up. And on a reasonable deal. Now, I think there's obviously a limit on what teams would give up for him, you gotta figure every playoff team wants a battle-tested playoff stopper who can shoot. His value to other teams is underrated. His value to the Bulls is a little less clear, simply because we're not that kind of team.

But... lots of teams that wouldn't want DeMar would love to have Caruso and would probably give up a pick or young player for him. With DeMar... there are certain scenarios where he might fetch a great return, but a lot of others where we'd basically be giving him away. So I think realistically, we are very unlikely to trade him.

Ball 5/8 has basically no value with all the knee injuries.

Coby 9/6 +3 is the most obvious trade candidate. Contrary to what people here think, guys who shoot in the high thirties on high volume are in demand, even if they stank it up in the playoffs. I could see teams that want shooting giving up a late first if they are looking to win now and don't expect the pick options to help them. His contract status makes him less valuable to the Bulls, but potentially more valuable to another team that would rather have the option 1yr + RFA status than having to commit to a current FA, so a S&T deal also looks like a reasonable idea.

Vuc 6/5 +1 is probably a slight positive. But nobody's going to go, "hey, Vuc is the missing piece for us", so I think that value is, on the whole, rather low. Most teams would take him willingly and plug him into a role, but no team is going to seek him out.

Pat 3/2 +1 isn't going to generate interest from a team that's looking to improve and get better in the playoffs. He probably did enough in the playoffs not to destroy his value around the league, but he certainly didn't eliminate any doubts either. The team that wants Pat is rebuilding. This makes it a problem for the Bulls, because rebuilding teams generally don't have the sort of guys we'd want to improve in the playoffs.

[LateNight]

What if Vucevic is willing to sign for 2/20 with a player option on 2014-15 season? Then we use Vucevic more as an off the bench punch versus playing with the starters?

If Vuc agrees to that contract, can we still sign Pau Gasol?

[TheSuzerain]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

I just hope we don't extend him this offseason.

What if Vucevic is willing to sign for 2/20 with a player option on 2014-15 season? Then we use Vucevic more as an off the bench punch versus playing with the starters? Vucevic does have value just we're overpaying for him. Bobby Portis putting up 15/11 tonight and getting paid $4.3m/yr.

I'd move on from Vuc entirely. He's basically the opposite of what you want your center to do these days (aside from his rebounding which is good)

[khufure]

Vuc is clearly below everyone else.

He's barely an asset if he is one at all.

I am going to disagree, but not in terms of end-of-season & post-season performance. How the Bulls used him is wrong. He needs a PG to set him up. The Bulls need to go to him early in the post. The entire team needs to be smarter and take advantage of match-ups in general.

What we're seeing is there's 3 positions these days -- PG, wing, and big. Can't really get rid of your only real big and replace him with nothing. You need all 3.

[FriedRise]

All I know is that this list:

1. Demar
2. Williams
3. Vuc
4. Caruso
5. Coby
6. Ball
7. Ayo
8. Green

is infinitely better than this other list:

1. Zach
2. Williams
3. Vooch
4. Lauri
5. Coby
6. Thadgic
7. Theis
8. Green
9. TBJ
10. Sato
11. Temple
12. Aminu