So what really happened in that locker room?

[NecessaryEvil]

If true that's somewhat surprising because all the players comments about Donovan in the first half of the season showed they were really high on him. DeRozan even mentioned he was trying to win the game before the all star break so they could get the #1 seed so Donovan could the game.

But it's also not surprising given all those feel good comments were gone in the 2nd half and it was just a lot of frustration in the post game locker room every game. Getting blown out every game definitely points to a coaching issue, or a player buy in of the coach issue.

I'll also say this, one of the higher paid players on the teams ladder does NOT like Billy Donovan. Which, I'm surprised about because in the media u wouldn't think that would be the case.

Why exactly were you talking to Malcolm Hill?

Not Malcolm though but hey, if he comes into one of my businesses, I'll talk to him too.

[kodo]

Also, the players don't feel like Vooch is the type of big the team needs. Not to say he isn't a talent but not the RIGHT big for this particular team.

We'll see if anything gets done about that though.

Agreed. A soft/finesse center works if you have an athlete, shotblocker, and lob dunker next to him to fulfill those roles. Vuc worked with Aaron Gordon most of his career, then Jonathan Isaac. Joker had Aaron Gordon, and before him Jerami Grant.

But if you're going smallball where the PF is a SF, you need a rim runner / shotblocker. Utah plays Bogdonovic at PF, they have Gobert in the middle. Phoenix plays Crowder at PF, they have Ayton.

But soft Center + soft PF is just asking to be killed in the paint, and in response Billy sends all 5 bulls into the paint on defense and the end result is we are the worst 3P defense in the league and it's time to blame Lavine's defense again for the problems of the FO & coaching.

[NecessaryEvil]

Also, the players don't feel like Vooch is the type of big the team needs. Not to say he isn't a talent but not the RIGHT big for this particular team.

We'll see if anything gets done about that though.

Agreed. A soft/finesse center works if you have an athlete, shotblocker, and lob dunker next to him to fulfill those roles. Vuc worked with Aaron Gordon most of his career, then Jonathan Isaac. Joker had Aaron Gordon, and before him Jerami Grant.

But if you're going smallball where the PF is a SF, you need a rim runner / shotblocker. Utah plays Bogdonovic at PF, they have Gobert in the middle. Phoenix plays Crowder at PF, they have Ayton.

But soft Center + soft PF is just asking to be killed in the paint, and in response Billy sends all 5 bulls into the paint on defense and the end result is we are the worst 3P defense in the league and it's time to blame Lavine's defense again for the problems of the FO & coaching.

Yep, he said he feels they only needed a shot blocking big at center.

[R3AL1TY]

No drama. They just turned out to be a middle of the pack team lacking 3 pt shooting, good off ball schemes, and bigs mobile enough to defend on a switch.

[chitownsports4ever]

Vuc makes a lot of sense and I could see him wanting off the team just because his game took a big hit. I was thinking Zach because he has a really powerful voice this offseason so I could see him voicing some of the frustrations the other players may be feeling. I agree though either way whatever caused the collapse it doesn't reflect well on Billy and it looked like he's either really incompetent or they started tuning him out.

I dont think Vooch wants off the team and he said from the start he understood that his stats would take a hit but he wanted to hit and as said him and Demar are very close friends since college so hes not gonna be mad his boy is getting good numbers

Now just like fans I could see somebody questioning why DJJ didnt get more run at PF over Javonte but I don't see the core guys having an issue with each other. I would not be surprised if they all ended up out at Demars house later this summer working out together

“You look at the talent we have and there’s a lot of good players and a lot of players who have had success throughout their career,” Vučević said. “You see the group of guys we have, there are a lot of guys who are willing to sacrifice to win, guys that get along now.

“I think we do have the talent to match up with the teams in the East. I don’t see any reason or anything that has happened for us to panic and take the group apart.”

“I think almost all the great teams, they’re built over time. Nothing happens overnight or over a year. You need to have that continuity. You need to give teams a chance to go through the ups and downs of seasons and playoffs, tough moments, good moments,” Vučević said. “Getting to build that chemistry doesn’t happen just like that. You have to go through the grind of the season and do that to get there. And I think they know that.

“That was the message we talked about in exit meetings. I think the core guys here are really good players and we can work really well together. It’s just about taking that next step forward now.”

and there is Zo

“I would love to run it back,” he said. “I was unhealthy this year. Caruso went down. Pat was pretty much out all the way until the playoffs. Everyone knows Zach was playing hurt pretty much this whole year. If everybody can get healthy and come back, I don’t see why we couldn’t run it back.

“Early on, you could kind of see the potential we had. I don’t think we ever got to reach that full potential because of COVID and injuries. Hopefully this summer does well for everyone and we can regroup and come back stronger.”

Demar and AC

“I got the utmost trust, faith and hope in the front office to do the job,” DeRozan said. “Just like we are competitors, they are as well, for the right reasons. That’s all you can ask for.”

DeRozan joined the chorus of Bulls advocating for continuity among the core.

“That’s where it starts,” he said. “All the great teams that played for something, that played deep, that competed for championships, that continuity has to be there, first and foremost.”

“Ultimately, championship teams are tight. Championship teams are connected,” he said. “And you build that connection playing games together throughout the regular season.

“I don’t know if we got to see our full potential having as many guys miss as many games. Lonzo wasn’t able to play in the playoffs. Just big pieces that hurt the symmetry and ability to build habits throughout the season. I think we’re a really good team that has a chance to be really special.”

[NecessaryEvil]

No drama. They just turned out to be a middle of the pack team lacking 3 pt shooting, good off ball schemes, and bigs mobile enough to defend on a switch.

Nah, you don't do as well as they did for the first half of the season to completely nose dive the last 32 games. It was a night and day difference.

Usually a coaching or chemistry issue.

[LateNight]

No drama. They just turned out to be a middle of the pack team lacking 3 pt shooting, good off ball schemes, and bigs mobile enough to defend on a switch.

Nah, you don't do as well as they did for the first half of the season to completely nose dive the last 32 games. It was a night and day difference.

Usually a coaching or chemistry issue.

So, to summarize:

1.) a core player doesn’t like the coach

2.) team thinks they need a different center

3.) Zach is frustrated with the offense (maybe related to demar’s usage rate, iso ball).

Question: Are 1 and 3 related issues or separate problems that we need to worry about?

[R3AL1TY]

No drama. They just turned out to be a middle of the pack team lacking 3 pt shooting, good off ball schemes, and bigs mobile enough to defend on a switch.

Nah, you don't do as well as they did for the first half of the season to completely nose dive the last 32 games. It was a night and day difference.

Usually a coaching or chemistry issue.

Injuries played a part + they began playing more top teams that took advantage of their weaknesses like the Jazz, Heat, Celtics, and Sixers towards the end.

[NecessaryEvil]

No drama. They just turned out to be a middle of the pack team lacking 3 pt shooting, good off ball schemes, and bigs mobile enough to defend on a switch.

Nah, you don't do as well as they did for the first half of the season to completely nose dive the last 32 games. It was a night and day difference.

Usually a coaching or chemistry issue.

Injuries played a part + they began playing more top teams that took advantage of their weaknesses like the Jazz, Heat, Celtics, and Sixers towards the end.

When they started playing like scrubs against the bottom feeders, that told me all I needed to know.

That's why I said during that time, I can't wait til' the season ends so i can hear about what REALLY happened to disrupt this whole thing.

[R3AL1TY]

Nah, you don't do as well as they did for the first half of the season to completely nose dive the last 32 games. It was a night and day difference.

Usually a coaching or chemistry issue.

Injuries played a part + they began playing more top teams that took advantage of their weaknesses like the Jazz, Heat, Celtics, and Sixers towards the end.

When they started playing like scrubs against the bottom feeders, that told me all I needed to know.

That's why I said during that time, I can't wait til' the season ends so i can hear about what REALLY happened to disrupt this whole thing.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility. I just doubt it currently. I think we are used to some management and locker room drama from the GARPAX days so we expect the same due to how they fell off at the end. They were still beating the bottoms teams like the Cavs, Pistons, Hornets, Magic, Thunder, and even the T-Wolves for the most part. Only a few disappointing losses to bad teams like the Knicks, Kings, and the game where Lamelo couldn't miss.

[NecessaryEvil]

No drama. They just turned out to be a middle of the pack team lacking 3 pt shooting, good off ball schemes, and bigs mobile enough to defend on a switch.

Nah, you don't do as well as they did for the first half of the season to completely nose dive the last 32 games. It was a night and day difference.

Usually a coaching or chemistry issue.

So, to summarize:

1.) a core player doesn’t like the coach

2.) team thinks they need a different center

3.) Zach is frustrated with the offense (maybe related to demar’s usage rate, iso ball).

Question: Are 1 and 3 related issues or separate problems that we need to worry about?

#1 yes

#2 yes

#3 I can't say that he was frustrated with DeMar, because he wasn't. The ball stopped moving as much as it did before the whole MVP agenda took centerfold. That's on Billy. I personally thought Zach may have been upset over it, but apparently he wasn't. Again, politics and also, they have a good relationship.


1 and 3 are seperate problems. I'm not sure how much we have to worry about either though. I'm sure plenty of star talents don't like the coaching.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

If I had to guess, it was more a matter of what *didn’t* happen in that locker room.

The guys seem to genuinely like each other. Can’t imagine there was drama. But when they hit a wall in February with their injuries and tough schedule, there was no one to foster the sort of healthy conflict that lifts teams out of slumps.

Obv I can’t know that for sure. But usually what you see in games reflects what’s going on in the locker room, and I can’t think of many instances of guys challenging each other on the floor or bench. I don’t expect anyone to go full Jimmy. Just share a frank word here and there. You look around the playoffs and quickly see how necessary that ingredient is.

[Chi town]

If I had to guess, it was more a matter of what *didn’t* happen in that locker room.

The guys seem to genuinely like each other. Can’t imagine there was drama. But when they hit a wall in February with their injuries and tough schedule, there was no one to foster the sort of healthy conflict that lifts teams out of slumps.

Obv I can’t know that for sure. But usually what you see in games reflects what’s going on in the locker room, and I can’t think of many instances of guys challenging each other on the floor or bench. I don’t expect anyone to go full Jimmy. Just share a frank word here and there. You look around the playoffs and quickly see how necessary that ingredient is.

Best post I’ve read in awhile.

It’s weird but it feels like Ayo has the most leadership chops on the team.

[R3AL1TY]

If I had to guess, it was more a matter of what *didn’t* happen in that locker room.

The guys seem to genuinely like each other. Can’t imagine there was drama. But when they hit a wall in February with their injuries and tough schedule, there was no one to foster the sort of healthy conflict that lifts teams out of slumps.

Obv I can’t know that for sure. But usually what you see in games reflects what’s going on in the locker room, and I can’t think of many instances of guys challenging each other on the floor or bench. I don’t expect anyone to go full Jimmy. Just share a frank word here and there. You look around the playoffs and quickly see how necessary that ingredient is.

Great perspective. Teams also need a level of leadership where a player ruffle some feathers and challenge guys to get better.

[chitownsports4ever]

If I had to guess, it was more a matter of what *didn’t* happen in that locker room.

The guys seem to genuinely like each other. Can’t imagine there was drama. But when they hit a wall in February with their injuries and tough schedule, there was no one to foster the sort of healthy conflict that lifts teams out of slumps.

Obv I can’t know that for sure. But usually what you see in games reflects what’s going on in the locker room, and I can’t think of many instances of guys challenging each other on the floor or bench. I don’t expect anyone to go full Jimmy. Just share a frank word here and there. You look around the playoffs and quickly see how necessary that ingredient is.

Good post but there is also a talent component involved here as well.

Look at it this way coming into the season

we had 4 guys who were starter level players

Demar
Vooch
Zach injured
Zo out for the season

one guy who was a high level reserve on a title team but again was never more than a 20 mpg player

AC injured

4 guys who were 22 years or younger

Ayo great in stretches and then hit rookie wall
Coby wildly inconsistent
TBJ
Pat missed 80+ % of the season

one journeyman who averaged 20 mpg DJJ
one journeyman who averaged 15 mpg Javonte


when you consider the injuries and Covid its remarkable that our 2 oldest players Demar and Vooch kept us afloat as long as were .

I think by March both Demar and Vooch were running on empty a bit and the entire team was basically playing with the belief that Zo was returning and they would get made whole . Once they found out he wasn't which I think the players knew well before the public did that sucked the little air they had left out of their sails .

There is only so much you will be able to get out of a Green, DJJ, TBJ we are talking about having to rely on far too marginal players in our lineups who all played the same positions . We had a lot of guys who before joining us played a limited amount of minutes.

We basically played nearly whole season with 3 starter level nba players(one of which was playing injured) and still made the playoffs so we basically stretched it as far as we could and punched above or weight class as long as we could .

[Wingy]

If I had to guess, it was more a matter of what *didn’t* happen in that locker room.

The guys seem to genuinely like each other. Can’t imagine there was drama. But when they hit a wall in February with their injuries and tough schedule, there was no one to foster the sort of healthy conflict that lifts teams out of slumps.

Obv I can’t know that for sure. But usually what you see in games reflects what’s going on in the locker room, and I can’t think of many instances of guys challenging each other on the floor or bench. I don’t expect anyone to go full Jimmy. Just share a frank word here and there. You look around the playoffs and quickly see how necessary that ingredient is.

Great perspective. Teams also need a level of leadership where a player ruffle some feathers and challenge guys to get better.

I don’t buy into this theory simply because I saw DeMar, the best player, get into guys on camera a number of times after the dark times were among us. Whether it be getting visibly frustrated and passionate trying to motivate the team in a huddle, to doing the same on the floor with an individual calling out mistakes. You would also see Caruso call out Zach’s mistakes and pointing out how to ‘do it right.’

So that’s your best player imploring guys to play better in a fairly heated manner (it looked like a healthy, non-Jimmy level to me), and your most talented player able to be openly coached up about his mistakes in front of the whole stadium and TV cameras.

[TokeBulls]

So NecessaryEvil has a source that happens to be a player on the team, and he was aware there was lockerroom dysfunction and unhappy players. But he thought this Bulls team would win in 5 despite the lockerroom dysfunction? Not to mention how awful the team was.

Yeah, I'm not buying it.

[mj234eva]

So, I just talked to a player on the team yesterday who doesn't play much. Billy Donovan lost the team a while ago.

I won't get into too much but it was an interesting convo to say the least.

This is definitely or DJJ. AC wouldn't be saying this to a rando.

He was in NT?

[Jcool0]

It’s Zach.

Only 4 guys can even fit that description. Lonzo didn’t play during the collapse, makes no sense it would be him.

Everything bent to the will of DeMar, so I highly doubt it’s him.

That leaves Zach or Vuc, and you could see how it could be either of them. I’d guess Zach though since he always said the nice thing publicly, thus the - you wouldn’t expect it comment...this is the closest thing to a giveaway. I remember his public comments being highlighted around here. Don’t recall ever hearing a single Vuc opinion on the coach.

He probably felt underutilized with so much DeMar-ball. I also recall a few times where he was really annoyed at a timeout, and not saying it never happened, but i don’t recall seeing that from other players.

I can see that. I am not saying the initial 3rd hand story we are discussing is true or not but speculating it is, I can see Zach being upset. DDR took over what was supposed to be his team in a contract year etc... I wouldn't doubt it idk it were true.

There is no problem between DeMar and Zach at all but Zach definitely had a problem with how everything was allocated to DeMar. But, that's on Billy Donovan and he alone.

Politics

So Zach has no problem with DeMar but has a problem with how much DeMar got the ball... So does he have a problem with him or not? I never saw Billy yelling at Zach to pass DeMar the ball or to stand in the corner to let DeMar go ISO.

[Jcool0]

Its always the simplest answer:

Lonzo out for the year, Zach going from All-NBA player to NBA starter level (because of the knee) & DeMar went from Jordan light to typical DeMar. Its not surprising to see them collapse since they filled much of the bench with fringe NBA players.