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Posted: **Sun Nov 6, 2022 11:26 pm**

Last 5 games: 10.8 pts 4.4rebs .8 asts 1stl 1blk

Slowly trending up but his aggressiveness is far different to what it was the first 5 games.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 12:19 am**

All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 1:24 am**

Stratmaster wrote:All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 1:43 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

The difference is Lauri flashed and produced plenty when he was here, he just couldn't put it together consistently. PWill has shown less in his entire short career than Lauri did in a single month. So much has to go right for PWill to become anything close to the player AKME expects him to be, and I just don't like those odds at all.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 1:58 am**

GoBlue72391 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

The difference is Lauri flashed and produced plenty when he was here, he just couldn't put it together consistently. PWill has shown less in his entire short career than Lauri did in a single month. So much has to go right for PWill to become anything close to the player AKME expects him to be, and I just don't like those odds at all.

You want to know what is funny though?

Have a look at Lauri's numbers when he played next to Vooch and Zach. You will be surprised. That was 4th year Lauri by the way.

EDIT: If you didnt know, he averaged 10 and 4.5

Now imagine Lauri with Demar, Zach and Vooch. What would you expect Lauri to average? Im just putting context to what the expectation should be instead of getting ahead of ourselves.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:06 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

I didn't say he was trash and will never be good. I said I am tired of the excuses and entitlement minutes and treatment. He shouldn't be starting and he shouldn't be getting significant minutes other than when he is having a big night.

Green has consistently outplayed him. Caruso has consistently outplayed him. Hell, Ayo, Dragic and Drummond have consistently outplayed him.

Other than the guys who haven't seen the court at all hec should be right there with Coby at the end of the rotation.

None of which means he will never be anything. But it means he ain't **** right now.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:09 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

The difference is Lauri flashed and produced plenty when he was here, he just couldn't put it together consistently. PWill has shown less in his entire short career than Lauri did in a single month. So much has to go right for PWill to become anything close to the player AKME expects him to be, and I just don't like those odds at all.

You want to know what is funny though?

Have a look at Lauri's numbers when he played next to Vooch and Zach. You will be surprised. That was 4th year Lauri by the way.

EDIT: If you didnt know, he averaged 10 and 4.5

Now imagine Lauri with Demar, Zach and Vooch. What would you expect Lauri to average? Im just putting context to what the expectation should be instead of getting ahead of ourselves.

So, you are saying the problem is Vuc and Zach, not Williams? Would the Bulls be better without Zach and Vuc?

Just more rationalizations and excuses.

The Bulls are 1-3 when Zach doesn't play and 4-3 when he does. Is it more important to win or to get the good players out of Lauri and Pat's way?

Why hasn't Williams excelled in the games Zach missed?

Without Williams the Bulls have 1 more win. Maybe 2. But we should be worried about how Zach and Vuc affect him?

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:11 am**

Meh, he's on an uptrend. I'd trade him for a proven star, but also see an upward trend to his game if we can't. He's got to tighten up his handles and develop some post moves.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:12 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

This isn't the same as the Lauri situation though. Lauri showed concrete evidence that he could play at the level he's playing at right now. Pat had like 1 throwaway game against third stringers. Lauri's problem was usage.

Edit: seems like others beat me to it

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:16 am**

PaKii94 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:All I can do is SMH. I'm so over all the rationalizations and excuses.

He has been bad so far. The last few games he showed a pulse, was still bad, but it was "progress".

Starts tonight 1 for 8 getting stuffed 4 times, and people say "but it was a good 1 for 8".

Any other player on this roster performing like him and we would be running him out of town.

All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

This isn't the same as the Lauri situation though. Lauri showed concrete evidence that he could play at the level he's playing at right now. Pat had like 1 throwaway game against third stringers. Lauri's problem was usage.

Edit: seems like others beat me to it

Lauri was good from the first preseason game, he just never really got better with the Bulls but he was always at least playable. Pat is not playable right now and never has been. People are just basing his potential on where he was picked, which was 4th in a 3 player draft that was one of the worst drafts we've seen in awhile.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:22 am**

That drive around Barnes followed by the dunk was the best move of Pat’s pro career. Can’t remember many times when he’s changed directions off the dribble and gotten all the way to the basket. Hopefully there’s more where that came from.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:39 am**

JimmyButler21 wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

This isn't the same as the Lauri situation though. Lauri showed concrete evidence that he could play at the level he's playing at right now. Pat had like 1 throwaway game against third stringers. Lauri's problem was usage.

Edit: seems like others beat me to it

Lauri was good from the first preseason game, he just never really got better with the Bulls but he was always at least playable. Pat is not playable right now and never has been. People are just basing his potential on where he was picked, which was 4th in a 3 player draft that was one of the worst drafts we've seen in awhile.

It wasn't the level of improvement we were hoping from Lauri but he did improve. He got better finishing at the rim & eventually got his 3pt shot to the 40% level. But he had his own issues with injury/consistency/mental make up. But not to the extent that is pat

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 2:51 am**

Stratmaster wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:The difference is Lauri flashed and produced plenty when he was here, he just couldn't put it together consistently. PWill has shown less in his entire short career than Lauri did in a single month. So much has to go right for PWill to become anything close to the player AKME expects him to be, and I just don't like those odds at all.

You want to know what is funny though?

Have a look at Lauri's numbers when he played next to Vooch and Zach. You will be surprised. That was 4th year Lauri by the way.

EDIT: If you didnt know, he averaged 10 and 4.5

Now imagine Lauri with Demar, Zach and Vooch. What would you expect Lauri to average? Im just putting context to what the expectation should be instead of getting ahead of ourselves.
So, you are saying the problem is Vuc and Zach, not Williams? Would the Bulls be better without Zach and Vuc?

Just more rationalizations and excuses.

The Bulls are 1-3 when Zach doesn't play and 4-3 when he does. Is it more important to win or to get the good players out of Lauri and Pat's way?

Why hasn't Williams excelled in the games Zach missed?

Without Williams the Bulls have 1 more win. Maybe 2. But we should be worried about how Zach and Vuc affect him?

Its still holds merit though and Im not making excuses for him. Im making the point that Larui avg 10/5 and was significantly better than Pat. That did happen.

Lauri was called trash because he didnt rebound or he didnt defend, or he couldnt score in the low post the way most wanted him to. People seem to give the impression that whomever is in that spot is actually going to average 18/10. Which is a bunch of Bull Jive.

I think realistically that position is probably more like 12 and 7 tops. But again, people are thinking in a fantasy world here. I cant think of many players who are going to average 12/7 while also guarding the opposing best player well.

The players that do, all started off like Patrick. - Hunter, Mikai Bridges. OG - the list goes on.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 3:47 am**

but he gets credit for increased energy. Thing is, there is no energy column in my box score. Maybe its…over last season, he has .5 more steals and .2 more blocks per 36. Puts up maybe 1.6 more shots. Unfortunately 1 less rebound. This is still Pat.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 3:53 am**

He's still getting his bearings

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 4:05 am**

sco wrote:Meh, he's on an uptrend. I'd trade him for a proven star, but also see an upward trend to his game if we can't. He's got to tighten up his handles and develop some post moves.

Williams would be a throw in on a trade for a proven star.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 5:37 am**

ShouldaPaidBG wrote:He's still getting his bearings

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 6:30 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
All because a guy doesnt perform fast enough for fans they think the player is trash. Then years from now we will have a Lauri thread talking about why didnt he develop here. Opps we do have one. Thats my point.

He hasnt played long enough to come to any conclusion yet. He just giving glimpses. Its fine if you think someone would be constantly better. I disagree. That guy isnt on the roster.

The difference is Lauri flashed and produced plenty when he was here, he just couldn't put it together consistently. PWill has shown less in his entire short career than Lauri did in a single month. So much has to go right for PWill to become anything close to the player AKME expects him to be, and I just don't like those odds at all.

You want to know what is funny though?

Have a look at Lauri's numbers when he played next to Vooch and Zach. You will be surprised. That was 4th year Lauri by the way.

EDIT: If you didnt know, he averaged 10 and 4.5

Now imagine Lauri with Demar, Zach and Vooch. What would you expect Lauri to average? Im just putting context to what the expectation should be instead of getting ahead of ourselves.

It's really not about stats for me and never has been. I've made that clear consistently. PWill just hasn't flashed frequently enough or highly enough as far as I'm concerned.

He doesn't have standout athleticism or explosion, he doesn't have any moves, he doesn't have a post-game, he can't create his own shot outside of a pull-up mid, he's not a natural driver or finisher, he has limited ballhandling and playmaking abilities, he's a poor rebounder and has a low motor, he's a good shooter but his release is probably too slow to ever become a true high volume knock down guy, he's an ok defender but lacks the footspeed to be a good one, etc.

What is there to be excited about other than his youth, frame, and draft position?

Ignoring stats and production, PWill has just never flashed anything near what Lauri flashed. He's had maybe 3 plays in his career that really stand out in my memory and really made me say "Wow", and one of them was tonight with that driving crossover hop step dunk. Another poster here said that was the best move of his career and I agree. Of all the other drives he's ever taken, 99% of them have been of the basic straight-line variety.

But to answer your question, this current version of Lauri would be the 3rd option on our team ahead of Vuc. Or at least should be, but this organization is pretty big on entitlement roles, so who knows? But as the 3rd option behind DeMar and Zach, I would expect him to get something like 16-21 PPG and 6-8 RPG with good efficiency and defense.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 6:41 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:
You want to know what is funny though?

Have a look at Lauri's numbers when he played next to Vooch and Zach. You will be surprised. That was 4th year Lauri by the way.

EDIT: If you didnt know, he averaged 10 and 4.5

Now imagine Lauri with Demar, Zach and Vooch. What would you expect Lauri to average? Im just putting context to what the expectation should be instead of getting ahead of ourselves.
So, you are saying the problem is Vuc and Zach, not Williams? Would the Bulls be better without Zach and Vuc?

Just more rationalizations and excuses.

The Bulls are 1-3 when Zach doesn't play and 4-3 when he does. Is it more important to win or to get the good players out of Lauri and Pat's way?

Why hasn't Williams excelled in the games Zach missed?

Without Williams the Bulls have 1 more win. Maybe 2. But we should be worried about how Zach and Vuc affect him?

Its still holds merit though and Im not making excuses for him. Im making the point that Larui avg 10/5 and was significantly better than Pat. That did happen.

Lauri was called trash because he didnt rebound or he didnt defend, or he couldnt score in the low post the way most wanted him to. People seem to give the impression that whomever is in that spot is actually going to average 18/10. Which is a bunch of Bull Jive.

I think realistically that position is probably more like 12 and 7 tops. But again, people are thinking in a fantasy world here. I cant think of many players who are going to average 12/7 while also guarding the opposing best player well.

The players that do, all started off like Patrick. - Hunter, Mikai Bridges. OG - the list goes on.

Ehh, I would argue that at that point AKME had already determined they didn't like the fit of Lauri and Vuc playing together and had decided to move on from him barring Lauri taking a well-under-market value contract, so they weren't really concerned with putting Lauri in a position to succeed at that point. They could have tried playing Lauri, PWill, and Vuc together in a big lineup like the Cavs and Jazz have, but they decided to bring him off the bench in a very limited role. They were all but done with him at that point.

The PF spot on our team could absolutely produce more than a max of 12 and 7, it just isn't because we don't have the personnel capable of producing any more than that. Put a PF who is actually good and fits this roster, like an off-ball/cutter/shooter, and they're getting an easy 15. Lonzo is about as big of a non-scorer as you're gonna get and even he averaged 13 for us. But at the end of the day, I'm really not that concerned with the stats.

Posted: **Mon Nov 7, 2022 7:01 am**

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Last 5 games: 10.8 pts 4.4rebs .8 asts 1stl 1blk

Slowly trending up but his aggressiveness is far different to what it was the first 5 games.

Basically his career numbers. This is still Pat.

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