Bears 2023 Thread

[Michael Jackson]

Other than those two, I am just not too excited by anyone else at #9. Would not mind a trade back to pick of of them up, or Calijah Kancey on the defensive end.

Darnell Washington was one of my 2nd round hopefuls but he shot way up after the combine

I feel like there are some Edge prospects (or Jalen Carter slide).

But would also certainly be in for a trade-down (not unthinkable to have a QB slip to #9 like Fields did).

If Carter slides, I take him before the clock even starts ticking. I just worry that both him, and the tope Edge guys will be gone by 9. We need some of the CB prospects to sneak up, so that our positions of need drop

Anderson I really think was the best fit but if Carter, problems and all is there you take him as you said without a seconds hesitation. I also think his "issues" absolutely effect his talent. It might be an on going issue but Anderson is better. I am bit sure I love the trade but Poles literally had the worst team in the league is doing a full overhaul this year so has lots of holes to fill. Different approach than it was with Pace. So I am good at seeing what happens. I am good with the "decent" WR core a couple mid upper talents and let's see if the team can scheme for it.

[fleet]

Bijan can't be justified imo.

JSN potentially could be worth it. WR is a premium position. Investing in those is always good business.

They both can be justified. Bijan is not a generic running back that you don't take in the first. He's almost a hybrid receiver. Gibbs too, would be a fantastic idea. Dealing with the headache of either Gibbs/Robinson as runners/receivers out of the backfield will be a nightmare for a defense to handle if the quarterback is able to hit them. More than any receiver in this draft would help imo. But anyway, can't believe I am saying this, but perhaps the best way to help Justin is indeed to give him a wide receiver room like he had at Ohio State. Sure, add JSN. Maybe what Fields needs is College open, not just NFL open. I'm against it after Moore. Moore should be enough. For a normal quarterback.

[bad knees]

Let’s see who they sign in next few days. Then we can discuss the draft with more info about need.

[Michael Jackson]

Let’s see who they sign in next few days. Then we can discuss the draft with more info about need.

Very true

[TheSuzerain]

Bijan can't be justified imo.

JSN potentially could be worth it. WR is a premium position. Investing in those is always good business.

They both can be justified. Bijan is not a generic running back that you don't take in the first. He's almost a hybrid receiver. Gibbs too, would be a fantastic idea. Dealing with the headache of either Gibbs/Robinson as runners/receivers out of the backfield will be a nightmare for a defense to handle if the quarterback is able to hit them. More than any receiver in this draft would help imo. But anyway, can't believe I am saying this, but perhaps the best way to help Justin is indeed to give him a wide receiver room like he had at Ohio State. Sure, add JSN. Maybe what Fields needs is College open, not just NFL open. I'm against it after Moore. Moore should be enough. For a normal quarterback.

People said the same about Fournette and Todd Gurley and Trent Richardson.

And I think the goal should be to have a top tier WR corps. I don't see why we'd stop at average (where we're at with Moore). Especially with Claypool/Mooney both expiring.

[atut55]

It's something I have not thought about, but if Richardson or Levis slips to 9, we could potentially trade back again and pick up and additional future 1st. There is not a big difference in talent (IMO) between picks 9-20 in this draft. That is unless, Wilson or Anderson slip to 9.

[fleet]

Bijan can't be justified imo.

JSN potentially could be worth it. WR is a premium position. Investing in those is always good business.

They both can be justified. Bijan is not a generic running back that you don't take in the first. He's almost a hybrid receiver. Gibbs too, would be a fantastic idea. Dealing with the headache of either Gibbs/Robinson as runners/receivers out of the backfield will be a nightmare for a defense to handle if the quarterback is able to hit them. More than any receiver in this draft would help imo. But anyway, can't believe I am saying this, but perhaps the best way to help Justin is indeed to give him a wide receiver room like he had at Ohio State. Sure, add JSN. Maybe what Fields needs is College open, not just NFL open. I'm against it after Moore. Moore should be enough. For a normal quarterback.

People said the same about Fournette and Todd Gurley and Trent Richardson.

And I think the goal should be to have a top tier WR corps. I don't see why we'd stop at average (where we're at with Moore). Especially with Claypool/Mooney both expiring.

In concept, I agree.

JSN is slow. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a slow, albeit good receiver in the first round, and the Bears mantra of length and speed set aside with their first first ever. For the record, I'm sitting here doubting it occurs.

[atut55]

They both can be justified. Bijan is not a generic running back that you don't take in the first. He's almost a hybrid receiver. Gibbs too, would be a fantastic idea. Dealing with the headache of either Gibbs/Robinson as runners/receivers out of the backfield will be a nightmare for a defense to handle if the quarterback is able to hit them. More than any receiver in this draft would help imo. But anyway, can't believe I am saying this, but perhaps the best way to help Justin is indeed to give him a wide receiver room like he had at Ohio State. Sure, add JSN. Maybe what Fields needs is College open, not just NFL open. I'm against it after Moore. Moore should be enough. For a normal quarterback.

People said the same about Fournette and Todd Gurley and Trent Richardson.

And I think the goal should be to have a top tier WR corps. I don't see why we'd stop at average (where we're at with Moore). Especially with Claypool/Mooney both expiring.

In concept, I agree.

JSN is slow. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a slow, albeit good receiver in the first round, and the Bears mantra of length and speed set aside with their first first ever. For the record, I'm sitting here doubting it occurs.

Where are you getting that he is slow? He might be, I do not know, but you are stating this as a known fact. Without a 40 at the combine, it is hard to determine straight line speed. He more than excelled at the other agility/quickness drills at the combine.

No starting an argument, just curious if you have found somewhere that states he is slow.

[MissileMike]

I doubt it happens but it brings up the idea of JSN being a draft target. I wonder if they are taking offers for Claypool potentially. If you could trade him for an early second, after getting JSN, it could be huge for us. I don’t see it but it’s be interesting at minimum.

I don’t think Claypool has second round draft pick value right now. This coming season is his contract year so he will have to perform to secure a nice contract.

I see some posters here talking like he's a #2. He needs to prove he even belongs on the field. He's never open when I watch.

[fleet]

People said the same about Fournette and Todd Gurley and Trent Richardson.

And I think the goal should be to have a top tier WR corps. I don't see why we'd stop at average (where we're at with Moore). Especially with Claypool/Mooney both expiring.

In concept, I agree.

JSN is slow. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a slow, albeit good receiver in the first round, and the Bears mantra of length and speed set aside with their first first ever. For the record, I'm sitting here doubting it occurs.

Where are you getting that he is slow? He might be, I do not know, but you are stating this as a known fact. Without a 40 at the combine, it is hard to determine straight line speed. He more than excelled at the other agility/quickness drills at the combine.

No starting an argument, just curious if you have found somewhere that states he is slow.

Fair enough. He's plenty quick though. Slot receiver more thsan an X receiver. Slow is too strong. A scouts opinion (Gabriel) was that he doesn't have deep speed to play outside. And isn't going to get drafted by the Bears after Moore's aquisition.. More analysis:

Smith-Njigba is a possession slot receiver who lacks the shake to separate underneath and the speed to run past defenses. He’s tough in the middle of the defense and has proven he can make catches in congestion. Smith-Njigba will need to fine-tune his route running to give himself his best chance to succeed at the next level. It is impossible to ignore his monster finish to the 2021 season, and he has starting slot potential, but the speed concerns coupled with an injury-plagued 2022 season threaten to negatively impact his draft stock

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaxon-smith-njigba/3200534d-4982-9636-a18c-5da6fbdaa80c

[biggestbullsfan]

I think it’ll be interesting how Poles approaches free agency. Last year he preferred to wait for the secondary market of free agent and pick up decent players on cheaper contracts. Partially for advantage but also because we had little cap space. We struck out on two of our bigger free agent targets last year, so I’d be surprised if we go hard early with and sign a bunch of players in the first day. But we could.

[Hold That]

In concept, I agree.

JSN is slow. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a slow, albeit good receiver in the first round, and the Bears mantra of length and speed set aside with their first first ever. For the record, I'm sitting here doubting it occurs.

Where are you getting that he is slow? He might be, I do not know, but you are stating this as a known fact. Without a 40 at the combine, it is hard to determine straight line speed. He more than excelled at the other agility/quickness drills at the combine.

No starting an argument, just curious if you have found somewhere that states he is slow.

Fair enough. He's plenty quick though. Slot receiver more thsan an X receiver. Slow is too strong. A scouts opinion (Gabriel) was that he doesn't have deep speed to play outside. And isn't going to get drafted by the Bears after Moore's aquisition.. More analysis:

Smith-Njigba is a possession slot receiver who lacks the shake to separate underneath and the speed to run past defenses. He’s tough in the middle of the defense and has proven he can make catches in congestion. Smith-Njigba will need to fine-tune his route running to give himself his best chance to succeed at the next level. It is impossible to ignore his monster finish to the 2021 season, and he has starting slot potential, but the speed concerns coupled with an injury-plagued 2022 season threaten to negatively impact his draft stock

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaxon-smith-njigba/3200534d-4982-9636-a18c-5da6fbdaa80c

JSN is a slot possessions receiver works in the intermediate of the field. He has a Cooper Kupp style. Both line up in slot mostly with exceptional route running skills. They always find a way to create separation with their foot work. JSN will never be known as a speed demon and that’s ok.

[Dresden]

I doubt it happens but it brings up the idea of JSN being a draft target. I wonder if they are taking offers for Claypool potentially. If you could trade him for an early second, after getting JSN, it could be huge for us. I don’t see it but it’s be interesting at minimum.

I don’t think Claypool has second round draft pick value right now. This coming season is his contract year so he will have to perform to secure a nice contract.

I see some posters here talking like he's a #2. He needs to prove he even belongs on the field. He's never open when I watch.

Im pretty sure the Bears see him as a #2, otherwise they would not have given up what they gave up for him.

[Dresden]

I think it’ll be interesting how Poles approaches free agency. Last year he preferred to wait for the secondary market of free agent and pick up decent players on cheaper contracts. Partially for advantage but also because we had little cap space. We struck out on two of our bigger free agent targets last year, so I’d be surprised if we go hard early with and sign a bunch of players in the first day. But we could.

I expect him to go very hard for either Dremont Jones or Javon Hargrave, and then for at least one of the top O lineman like McGlinchey or Orlando Brown. I'd be very surprised if he did not, and almost universally, every analyst I've read or listened to expects this as well.

[Chi town]

Bijan can't be justified imo.

JSN potentially could be worth it. WR is a premium position. Investing in those is always good business.

They both can be justified. Bijan is not a generic running back that you don't take in the first. He's almost a hybrid receiver. Gibbs too, would be a fantastic idea. Dealing with the headache of either Gibbs/Robinson as runners/receivers out of the backfield will be a nightmare for a defense to handle if the quarterback is able to hit them. More than any receiver in this draft would help imo. But anyway, can't believe I am saying this, but perhaps the best way to help Justin is indeed to give him a wide receiver room like he had at Ohio State. Sure, add JSN. Maybe what Fields needs is College open, not just NFL open. I'm against it after Moore. Moore should be enough. For a normal quarterback.

People said the same about Fournette and Todd Gurley and Trent Richardson.

And I think the goal should be to have a top tier WR corps. I don't see why we'd stop at average (where we're at with Moore). Especially with Claypool/Mooney both expiring.

WR position is the new QB DE.

You want an elite QB and DE on the roster at all times but you can’t pay both top dollar and still field a team. The same is now said for WR.

If we draft JSN he will be cheaper than Claypool or Mooney on his rookie contract. It would also indicate that Poles knows we have to win with offense and that will come through the air not JF1 or a RB running all the time.

[dice]

It's something I have not thought about, but if Richardson or Levis slips to 9, we could potentially trade back again and pick up and additional future 1st. There is not a big difference in talent (IMO) between picks 9-20 in this draft. That is unless, Wilson or Anderson slip to 9.

there probably rarely is

edit: turns out i'm a little off. average number of all-pro selections by draft position as of 2017 (using logarithmic curve formula for data smoothing purposes):

#1 - 1.78
#5 - 1.50
#9 - 1.23
#20 - 0.87
#30 - 0.68
#40 - 0.55
#50 - 0.45
#60 - 0.36

a 29% decrease in all pro selections between 9 and 20 is pretty significant

[CjayC]

I've seen Moore listed as in the 11-20 group of WR's. I don't know how you define "a #1 WR" exactly, but I think that being in the top 20 is likely going to put you in that category. Unless what you mean by a "#1" is someone who can dominate a game, in which case you're talking about maybe 5-6 guys league wide. But that definition seems overly restrictive. When people talk about having a #1, they generally mean a guy who would be the best receiver on most teams in the league.

Yardage wise, Moore had 3 1,100 yard seasons before this last one. Only 8 receivers in the league had more than 1100 yards last year- Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Brown, Diggs, Lamb, Waddle and Kelce (a TE). There were 7 guys who had 1100-1200 yards. So it seems reasonable to assume Moore can comfortably fit into that second tier of WR's, since he's done that in the past 3 years in a row. That puts him in the 9-15 category among WR's. I'd call that a #1. You really aren't going to do much better than that, unless you can get your hands on one of the true stars, which is mighty hard to do and mighty expensive.

The only separator between a lot of these guys is whose throwing them the ball. Nobody can throw to themselves unfortunately. Personally I only put Tyreek, and maybe Jefferson in that category as being good enough to do it even if you or me were throwing them the ball.

[CjayC]

Bijan can't be justified imo.

JSN potentially could be worth it. WR is a premium position. Investing in those is always good business.

Bijan runs CRISPY, WR-esque routes out of the backfield. Some scouts say he's the legit best talent in the draft, and if he was a WR, he'd be the best WR in the draft. He's an every down back that can lower his shoulder, and run routes with the best of them. It's not as simple as "He's a RB, RB's are devalued in 2023, end of discussion". He will legitimately add a new dimension to the Bears offense.

I do lean towards the smart move being drafting a DL, or OL, depending on how Free Agency shakes out, but this question isn't totally out of bounds especially if they improve their Oline going into the draft.

[dice]

I've seen Moore listed as in the 11-20 group of WR's. I don't know how you define "a #1 WR" exactly, but I think that being in the top 20 is likely going to put you in that category. Unless what you mean by a "#1" is someone who can dominate a game, in which case you're talking about maybe 5-6 guys league wide. But that definition seems overly restrictive. When people talk about having a #1, they generally mean a guy who would be the best receiver on most teams in the league.

Yardage wise, Moore had 3 1,100 yard seasons before this last one. Only 8 receivers in the league had more than 1100 yards last year- Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Brown, Diggs, Lamb, Waddle and Kelce (a TE). There were 7 guys who had 1100-1200 yards. So it seems reasonable to assume Moore can comfortably fit into that second tier of WR's, since he's done that in the past 3 years in a row. That puts him in the 9-15 category among WR's. I'd call that a #1. You really aren't going to do much better than that, unless you can get your hands on one of the true stars, which is mighty hard to do and mighty expensive.

The only separator between a lot of these guys is whose throwing them the ball. Nobody can throw to themselves unfortunately. Personally I only put Tyreek, and maybe Jefferson in that category as being good enough to do it even if you or me were throwing them the ball.

the people who actually watch and grade every ball that is thrown in the direction of the WR grade the receiver only on catchable balls. the #1 receiver (tyreke) was graded by PFF at 92.1. the #20 was graded at 78.4. that's a steep falloff. moore graded at 73.9

and as i've already pointed out, the consensus ranking for DJ moore is in the 20s. PFF (one of the few widely available sources that actually watches every play) had him at #25 heading into last season and he'll probably be out of the top 25 going into this season

tyreke 92.1 (last season)
moore 78.0 (4 year average)
st. brown 64.2 (last season)

moore effectively splits the difference between the guy who he will be replacing in the starting lineup and the top receiver in the league in any given year.. so what do you call a guy that is right in-between A+ and C- (and am i being generous by calling st. brown a C- starter)? i'd say "really good". he's been a B starting WR over the course of 4 years. that's good enough to be the top guy on some teams, including the bears

[Dresden]

I've seen Moore listed as in the 11-20 group of WR's. I don't know how you define "a #1 WR" exactly, but I think that being in the top 20 is likely going to put you in that category. Unless what you mean by a "#1" is someone who can dominate a game, in which case you're talking about maybe 5-6 guys league wide. But that definition seems overly restrictive. When people talk about having a #1, they generally mean a guy who would be the best receiver on most teams in the league.

Yardage wise, Moore had 3 1,100 yard seasons before this last one. Only 8 receivers in the league had more than 1100 yards last year- Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Brown, Diggs, Lamb, Waddle and Kelce (a TE). There were 7 guys who had 1100-1200 yards. So it seems reasonable to assume Moore can comfortably fit into that second tier of WR's, since he's done that in the past 3 years in a row. That puts him in the 9-15 category among WR's. I'd call that a #1. You really aren't going to do much better than that, unless you can get your hands on one of the true stars, which is mighty hard to do and mighty expensive.

The only separator between a lot of these guys is whose throwing them the ball. Nobody can throw to themselves unfortunately. Personally I only put Tyreek, and maybe Jefferson in that category as being good enough to do it even if you or me were throwing them the ball.

the people who actually watch and grade every ball that is thrown in the direction of the WR grade the receiver only on catchable balls. the #1 receiver (tyreke) was graded by PFF at 92.1. the #20 was graded at 78.4. that's a steep falloff. moore graded at 73.9

and as i've already pointed out, the consensus ranking for DJ moore is in the 20s. PFF (one of the few widely available sources that actually watches every play) had him at #25 heading into last season and he'll probably be out of the top 25 going into this season

tyreke 92.1 (last season)
moore 78.0 (4 year average)
st. brown 64.2 (last season)

moore effectively splits the difference between the guy who he will be replacing in the starting lineup and the top receiver in the league in any given year.. so what do you call a guy that is right in-between A+ and C-? i'd say "really good". he's been a B starting WR over the course of 4 years. that's good enough to be the top guy on some teams, including the bears

It doesn't make sense to grade a WR only on catchable balls. That seems to leave out a) whether he is able to get open or not, and b) if his QB is accurate enough to throw catchable balls to him.

PFF provides a good window into a lot of things, but I wouldn't trust them as the final word, as some of their rankings seem pretty far off.