How Bad Was That Dallas Win?

[pipfan]

I was just looking at the lotto odds, and I can't believe how stupid it was to play Vuc big minutes, plus play PWill and Coby-going for the win. Hell, they started Caruso-who's always hurt.

If we lose that game, we have the 10th worst odds in the Lotto (I think we all know we are not coming out of the Playin-I hope AKME know that as well).
If we lost Friday and lose today (by playing scrubs-Det is set for the worst spot so I assume they'll play to win) we would have a shot at 9th.

Where we are now we have an 8% chance of keeping our pick in the lotto
The 10th spot has a 14% chance

That's 6% better odds-not a lot, but CLEARLY not nothing.

PLUS, we lose out, and Utah wins today (they won last night) and we could have gotten to 9th, with a 20% chance of keeping the pick

FINALLY-If we blow it up this summer, NY is the most obvious spot for Lavine. By helping Dallas keep their pick, they'd give a #11 or 12 pick to NY-a nice asset to add to a Lavine trade

I have supported AKME. I was in favor of the Vuc trade (not for the 2nd 1st, but I wanted to add him for the package and 1 pick). The Ball signing was a good gamble. Great deal for Caruso. DDR has been a stud for us. I thought the DJJ trade was good-Lauri was not going to break out for us like that. Hell, I wanted PWill in the draft. Hated the Terry pick but in general I have approved of most of their moves.

Sometimes things don't go your way. Ball's injury cursed us, but it happens. We should have blown it up at the deadline, but I see the logic of fighting on. But COME ONE-why win a meaningless game when losing would help SO MUCH more.

Hell, Coby will probably get paid a bit extra due to his great last 2 games (I'm sure he'll hit 40 today!!) and be more expensive to resign

[dukeespn]

Here's the twit summarizing it perfectly.

Read on Twitter

I've criticized AKME since they traded for Vuc (and I got tons of criticism of AKME defenders at that time lol) and a victory like the game against DAL is one of reasons I hate them. They're so good at winning meaningless games which even hurt the team's future.

[Wingy]

I mean, we should be where the Blazers are at 42%.

Why wake up and get upset now?

Glad everyone plans to tune in for the playin though. Show your interest and approval of the playin being the team’s goal.

[pipfan]

I honestly had them as unanimous FO of the Year last year, at the ASB. All their moves looked great (except the Vuc trade, at that point-but the team was ROLLING). Now, the wheels have fallen off. It happens-not all plans work out

BUT PIVOT-don't pour good money after bad

The Dallas win was bad for SO MANY reasons
-lotto odds
-give NY a trade chip to get Lavine
-injury risk (playing Caruso, really?)

If our GLeague MVP played 40 minutes and went GOAT, and won the game-fine. The guys on the floor should ALWAYS try to win. But, Donovan should have played
White/Williams the full Q1/Q3 and let them sit
Vuc 18 minutes, 9 minutes in Q1/Q3

Simonovic DIDN'T PLAY-how is that possible. Do we need to see what DJJ can do? I think we know what he is. Ayo-sure, let him run around. But Terry/Jones/Terry should have played 36 minutes each

That was SUCH BAD planning by our decision makers, on so many levels

[DuckIII]

I got over this whole thing once the trade deadline passed. Not to mention the Bulls did sit all of their main players and limited Vuc while honoring his personal request. We just got out-tanked and still almost lost the game.

Plus wouldn’t we have to lose against Detroit too? How many guys do we have to sit to do that? 7? 8?

I believe in tanking as a general matter, but there’s only so much you can do.

[League Circles]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

[coldfish]

I got over this whole thing once the trade deadline passed. Not to mention the Bulls did sit all of their main players and limited Vuc while honoring his personal request. We just got out-tanked and still almost lost the game.

Plus wouldn’t we have to lose against Detroit too? How many guys do we have to sit to do that? 7? 8?

I believe in tanking as a general matter, but there’s only so much you can do.

This is going to be one of those look back moments where everyone agrees the organization screwed up. This isn't a hindsight thing. A LOT of people wanted the team to blow itself up at the trade deadline. AK himself said there were a ton of buyers.

Instead, Chicago held on and is probably going to lose in the play in and then lose their pick.

This just screams of a front office that is more concerned about their jobs than the good of the organization.

[rjforniss]

While being hire in the lottery chances isn’t a bad idea, I was at the game so I enjoyed seeing my team win live for once. First time in about 12 tries.

[FriedRise]

I mean, they were on their way to getting blown out at halftime. They were down big for like 3.5+ quarters and the players they played were guys usually in street clothes. Carlik Jones, Terry Taylor, Dalen Terry.

I don’t think they were trying to win that game, but somebody had to win.

If anything, Dallas should be heavily punished for intentionally throwing the game when they technically were still alive.

[sco]

I got over this whole thing once the trade deadline passed. Not to mention the Bulls did sit all of their main players and limited Vuc while honoring his personal request. We just got out-tanked and still almost lost the game.

Plus wouldn’t we have to lose against Detroit too? How many guys do we have to sit to do that? 7? 8?

I believe in tanking as a general matter, but there’s only so much you can do.

This is going to be one of those look back moments where everyone agrees the organization screwed up. This isn't a hindsight thing. A LOT of people wanted the team to blow itself up at the trade deadline. AK himself said there were a ton of buyers.

Instead, Chicago held on and is probably going to lose in the play in and then lose their pick.

This just screams of a front office that is more concerned about their jobs than the good of the organization.

Your points are right, but IMO, it was totally unreasonable to expect the FO to tank this season on the premise they could get a 50/50ish shot at a top 4 pick. Also, they'd need to tank for longer for that pick to never convey. IMO, we lose little by dumping Demar, Vuc and Caruso this offseason for young guys and picks, and do a 1 year mini-tank next season, and be smart about contracts to have space for 2 max slots or 1 max slot and a bunch of good young players for 25 to pair with a good pick.

[coldfish]

I got over this whole thing once the trade deadline passed. Not to mention the Bulls did sit all of their main players and limited Vuc while honoring his personal request. We just got out-tanked and still almost lost the game.

Plus wouldn’t we have to lose against Detroit too? How many guys do we have to sit to do that? 7? 8?

I believe in tanking as a general matter, but there’s only so much you can do.

This is going to be one of those look back moments where everyone agrees the organization screwed up. This isn't a hindsight thing. A LOT of people wanted the team to blow itself up at the trade deadline. AK himself said there were a ton of buyers.

Instead, Chicago held on and is probably going to lose in the play in and then lose their pick.

This just screams of a front office that is more concerned about their jobs than the good of the organization.

Your points are right, but IMO, it was totally unreasonable to expect the FO to tank this season on the premise they could get a 50/50ish shot at a top 4 pick. Also, they'd need to tank for longer for that pick to never convey. IMO, we lose little by dumping Demar, Vuc and Caruso this offseason for young guys and picks, and do a 1 year mini-tank next season, and be smart about contracts to have space for 2 max slots or 1 max slot and a bunch of good young players for 25 to pair with a good pick.

This isn't just about the pick. Vucevic is a free agent. Demar is going to be a year older. White is going to be a free agent. May others will be just a year older and/or leave. Chicago devalued its trade value in order to likely lose a play in game. Even worse, there isn't a lot of good options for next year either particularly given Ball's situation. Its foolish asset management.

Chicago has virtually nothing to gain by winning 38 games instead of 30 and in doing so, they are worsening their long term future.

Its not like people are asking to blow up a 2nd round playoff team. This is functionally an older team that isn't even a top 8 seed in the east. MOST organizations in that position would blow it up.

[DuckIII]

I got over this whole thing once the trade deadline passed. Not to mention the Bulls did sit all of their main players and limited Vuc while honoring his personal request. We just got out-tanked and still almost lost the game.

Plus wouldn’t we have to lose against Detroit too? How many guys do we have to sit to do that? 7? 8?

I believe in tanking as a general matter, but there’s only so much you can do.

This is going to be one of those look back moments where everyone agrees the organization screwed up. This isn't a hindsight thing. A LOT of people wanted the team to blow itself up at the trade deadline. AK himself said there were a ton of buyers.

Instead, Chicago held on and is probably going to lose in the play in and then lose their pick.

This just screams of a front office that is more concerned about their jobs than the good of the organization.

No doubt. I’ve been saying that since 2:01 pm on February 9th.

[Stratmaster]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

I'm with you on this one.

[DuckIII]

Demar is going to be a year older.

With DDR it’s not even about the age so much as it is the contract. The target buyers for him are teams in the midst of the arms race to win right now. Teams would only really be interested in him because of the postseason. By not trading him at deadline you cut his value to such a buyer in half.

I am still 100% in favor of trading him this summer and believe he’ll still have “better fitting role players” value. But whatever that value is, it will be much less than it was two months ago when he offered 2 postseason runs and teams were aggressively making “win right now” moves. It was an ideal market despite his age, and we know AK knew it because he’s the one who told us about it.

One of the biggest strategic “real time” blunders in Bulls history.

[pipfan]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

I'm with you on this one.

I hear you-and, as I mentioned-the guys on the court should have been trying to win. But why play Coby SO many minutes? And PWill? Caruso gets hurt all the time-let him sit. Play Vuc a bit, but he went for 20/10.
Adding a top 4 pick would REALLY help this team in the future. We had NOTHING to win from that game-our 10th seed spot was secure

[PJSteven22]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

And you’re going to be sitting here a few years from now wondering why this team is so mediocre

[ChettheJet]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

[League Circles]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

And you’re going to be sitting here a few years from now wondering why this team is so mediocre

Why would the naturally expected outcome for all teams need explanation?

Every team in the league projects as medicore "in a few years". That's the essence of the natural world.

[Taj FTW]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

You've never played professional sports. Stop acting like your sports career is anything similar to the highest level of sports. Tanking is a thing in basically all the major sports. There's a reason for that. Remember what happened with the Bears this season?

Yeah, I'm sure they're all torn up about "not being competitive".

[CROBulls]

Black lung bad.