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Just curious what everyone's thoughts on the starting line-up opening night? The team still doesn't really have a PF (unless you include Smith).

I'm guessing:

Giddey
Ayo (I think Ayo will outwork Coby)
LaVine
PWill (maybe Craig beats him out?)
Vucevic

Hopefully by the deadline they've found a suitor for Zach and Pat can move to SF.

The Bulls are probably going to struggle once again inside, Vuc, Smith and Buzelis are the tallest players at 6'10", there's no Drummond to gobble up boards this year.

Ayo may start. But there is no way Coby White isnt starting. Even if hes “out worked”. Which i dont even know what that means. Coby is now the best player on the team. Hes starting.

terry wrote:Ayo may start. But there is no way Coby White isnt starting. Even if hes “out worked”. Which i dont even know what that means. Coby is now the best player on the team. Hes starting.

Whilst I agree that there is no question that Coby is going to be in the starting line up, I'm not sure if he is the best player. Zach will be back and healthy, and then there is the addition of Giddey. And on a side note, there is the problem, we still need a legitimate star player on our roster before we can really start building this team. Right now, the focus needs to be obtaining as many quality young players and players on good contracts as much as possible.

I somewhat expect:
Coby
Lavine
Giddey
PWill
Vuc

terry wrote:Ayo may start. But there is no way Coby White isnt starting. Even if hes “out worked”. Which i dont even know what that means. Coby is now the best player on the team. Hes starting.

One of Ayo, Zach and Coby isn't starting when the season begins. I think given his contract and trade status Zach is pretty much a lock as a starter.

Which leaves Ayo and Coby and I think Ayo is going to go out there and provide more of an impact (because he's a better defender), therefore 'outworking' Coby for a starting spot. This isn't meant as a knock on Coby, I just think Ayo is going to provide more to the starting line-up than Coby. Just my opinion.

Muzbar wrote:

terry wrote:Ayo may start. But there is no way Coby White isnt starting. Even if hes “out worked”. Which i dont even know what that means. Coby is now the best player on the team. Hes starting.

One of Ayo, Zach and Coby isn't starting when the season begins. I think given his contract and trade status Zach is pretty much a lock as a starter.

Which leaves Ayo and Coby and I think Ayo is going to go out there and provide more of an impact (because he's a better defender), therefore 'outworking' Coby for a starting spot. This isn't meant as a knock on Coby, I just think Ayo is going to provide more to the starting line-up than Coby. Just my opinion.

I don't think it's a knock to say that Ayo has more defensive versatility over Coby, that's just a fact. But remember, Billy used his best defensive player off from the bench in Alex, which is exactly the role that I see Ayo taking over, just with lesser defense, and more offense.

kulaz3000 wrote:

Muzbar wrote:

terry wrote:Ayo may start. But there is no way Coby White isnt starting. Even if hes “out worked”. Which i dont even know what that means. Coby is now the best player on the team. Hes starting.

One of Ayo, Zach and Coby isn't starting when the season begins. I think given his contract and trade status Zach is pretty much a lock as a starter.

Which leaves Ayo and Coby and I think Ayo is going to go out there and provide more of an impact (because he's a better defender), therefore 'outworking' Coby for a starting spot. This isn't meant as a knock on Coby, I just think Ayo is going to provide more to the starting line-up than Coby. Just my opinion.

I don't think it's a knock to say that Ayo has more defensive versatility over Coby, that's just a fact. But remember, Billy used his best defensive player off from the bench in Alex, which is exactly the role that I see Ayo taking over, just with lesser defense, and more offense.

I also think Coby and Zach are very similar and may not be the best of fits together along with Giddey.

Coby is definitely starting. Ayo will likely log the most minutes of anybody in the 2nd unit.

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Giddey
White
LaVine
Williams
Vucevic

Ayo
Smith
Craig
Ball
Buzelis

Coby
Zach
Giddey
Patrick
Smith

step wrote:I somewhat expect:
Coby
Lavine
Giddey
PWill
Vuc

Same here, I can't see any other logical choice.

Ccwatercraft wrote:

step wrote:I somewhat expect:
Coby
Lavine
Giddey
PWill
Vuc

Same here, I can't see any other logical choice.

This is what I expect too, but I want:
Giddey
Lavine
Ayo
Pat
Smith

If we want to win, Coby is a worse choice than Ayo due to Ayo's better defense, while not losing much on the scoring side. Also, Smith will bring better 3 & D than Vuc, while Vuc plays his best against weaker C's. A bench rotation of: Ball, Coby, Terry, Matas, Vuc might be very good.

I get the people that are suggesting Ayo over Coby due to defense, and cause with Giddey, Coby's playmaking isn't as important, but IMO the way to handle the defensive imbalance is to start Smith over Vuc instead. Coby needs to be on the court. He was arguably our best player last year and is clearly the closest thing we have to an incumbent leader. You just don't bench guys like that, even if it makes sense in theory.

I do actually think there's a decent chance that Smith starts.

League Circles wrote:I get the people that are suggesting Ayo over Coby due to defense, and cause with Giddey, Coby's playmaking isn't as important, but IMO the way to handle the defensive imbalance is to start Smith over Vuc instead. Coby needs to be on the court. He was arguably our best player last year and is clearly the closest thing we have to an incumbent leader. You just don't bench guys like that, even if it makes sense in theory.

I do actually think there's a decent chance that Smith starts.

I think there is zero chance Smith starts. Billy is horrible with his cowtowing to the mid-3, but I hope you're right!

Coby wasn't as good as many suggest last season. He had a good a month+. Now it can be argued that he was dealing with a wrist injury. Also, Coby isn't a pouter if he comes off the bench, which I like. He'll still get 30MPG.

sco wrote:

League Circles wrote:I get the people that are suggesting Ayo over Coby due to defense, and cause with Giddey, Coby's playmaking isn't as important, but IMO the way to handle the defensive imbalance is to start Smith over Vuc instead. Coby needs to be on the court. He was arguably our best player last year and is clearly the closest thing we have to an incumbent leader. You just don't bench guys like that, even if it makes sense in theory.

I do actually think there's a decent chance that Smith starts.

I think there is zero chance Smith starts. Billy is horrible with his cowtowing to the mid-3, but I hope you're right!

Coby wasn't as good as many suggest last season. He had a good a month+. Now it can be argued that he was dealing with a wrist injury. Also, Coby isn't a pouter if he comes off the bench, which I like. He'll still get 30MPG.

Is there a single bench player in the league that averages 30 mpg? Not sure I've ever seen one.

Coby had some ups and downs as most smaller perimeter players do, but his overall numbers and overall play for the season were good, and he definitely stepped up as a vocal leader.

Frankly it's hard to argue IMO that anyone is more deserving of starting than Coby, considering Zach was bad, injured, and wanting out, and Giddey is new, poor on defense and poor shooting.

Who should we start?

Giddey, Ayo, Zach, Pat, Jalen

Who will we start?

Giddey, Coby, Zach, Pat, Vuc

mack2354 wrote:Coby is definitely starting. Ayo will likely log the most minutes of anybody in the 2nd unit.

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That is the correct answer.

I think we can all agree that Zach, Giddey, Pat, and Vooch will be starting. The only way a player like Smith will be starting over Vooch is if Vooch is injured/traded, because politics. Hell, a high impact player like Andre Drummond couldn't even get considered to start over Vooch.

On Coby vs Ayo: Coby is generally the better scorer, but if the ball is gonna be mostly in Giddey's hands anyway, I wanted to look at how these two fare in terms of catch and shoot 3s, because I feel like that's gonna be the determining factor when it comes to spacing and giving Giddey decent options at the 3pt line.

Last year Ayo was actually very good at that:

Ayo: 40.6%
Coby: 36.5%

And we know he's the better defender than Coby.

Just for comparison, discounting last year Zach has been consistently elite in C&S 3s:
2022-23: 41.6%
2021-22: 46%
2020-21: 48.6%

Pat ain't so bad either:
2023-24: 38.8%
2022-23: 41.9%
2021-22: 52%

Vooch was laughably bad last year with 29.1%.

I still think it's gonna be Coby, but Ayo is up there too and def not a bad option.

Assuming Zach is still here:

Giddey
Coby
Zach
Williams
Vooch

Assuming Zach is traded:

Giddey
Coby
Ayo
Williams
Vooch

It's not going to surprise me if Matas supplants Williams at some point, with either Williams moving to the 3 and Ayo going to the bench or Williams coming off the bench.

I agree that Ayo is probably a better starter than Coby from a fit/balance perspective, given how woeful the defense will be without him, but I just don't see Billy moving Coby to the bench after last season, unless he really stinks it up.

FriedRise wrote:I think we can all agree that Zach, Giddey, Pat, and Vooch will be starting. The only way a player like Smith will be starting over Vooch is if Vooch is injured/traded, because politics. Hell, a high impact player like Andre Drummond couldn't even get considered to start over Vooch.

On Coby vs Ayo: Coby is generally the better scorer, but if the ball is gonna be mostly in Giddey's hands anyway, I wanted to look at how these two fare in terms of catch and shoot 3s, because I feel like that's gonna be the determining factor when it comes to spacing and giving Giddey decent options at the 3pt line.

Last year Ayo was actually very good at that:

Ayo: 40.6%
Coby: 36.5%

And we know he's the better defender than Coby.

Just for comparison, discounting last year Zach has been consistently elite in C&S 3s:
2022-23: 41.6%
2021-22: 46%
2020-21: 48.6%

Pat ain't so bad either:
2023-24: 38.8%
2022-23: 41.9%
2021-22: 52%

Vooch was laughably bad last year with 29.1%.

I still think it's gonna be Coby, but Ayo is up there too and def not a bad option.

I'm a huge Drummond fan, but for better or worse, the Bulls value Smith quite a bit more than Drummond, so I think he may still start.