Bulls' Superlatives

[pipfan]

Traditionally we've had lots of "best" in the league at something for at least a season. Obviously, these are subjective and many are random

-best perimeter defender, AC
-best DWade/RAllen defender, Captain Kirk
-most bonehead "and 1's" given up-Dougie
-most missed dunks-Laurie
-most exciting player, DRose

And many others

On this year's squad-here's what I think we have
Vuc-biggest gap between offensive and defensive value. Most would say TYoung, but I think his offensive value is a bit overrated, and center is a MUCH more important position

Lavine-best looking jumper. His shot is SO smooth, and it goes in so nicely. Has to be the prettiest in the league

CWhite-player most obvious for a specific role (6th man). Coby is literally a perfect 6th man now, but we don't use him that way (should start Ayo clearly)

PWill-worst dunker. I don't think I've ever seen someone mess up so many dunks, he's clearly worse than Laurie was

Any others?

[Stratmaster]

Traditionally we've had lots of "best" in the league at something for at least a season. Obviously, these are subjective and many are random

-best perimeter defender, AC
-best DWade/RAllen defender, Captain Kirk
-most bonehead "and 1's" given up-Dougie
-most missed dunks-Laurie
-most exciting player, DRose

And many others

On this year's squad-here's what I think we have
Vuc-biggest gap between offensive and defensive value. Most would say TYoung, but I think his offensive value is a bit overrated, and center is a MUCH more important position

Lavine-best looking jumper. His shot is SO smooth, and it goes in so nicely. Has to be the prettiest in the league

CWhite-player most obvious for a specific role (6th man). Coby is literally a perfect 6th man now, but we don't use him that way (should start Ayo clearly)

PWill-worst dunker. I don't think I've ever seen someone mess up so many dunks, he's clearly worse than Laurie was

Any others?

I agree with all of those except I think Vuc has played defense much better this season. To the point where he hasn't been a liability.

[Andi Obst]

Trae Young is both a way better offensive player and a way worse defensive player than Vuc. Come one now.

[dougthonus]

I agree with all of those except I think Vuc has played defense much better this season. To the point where he hasn't been a liability.

Opponents are shooting 72.7% against him around the basket on 7.7 attempts per game. (72 total shots defended)

Among centers, only KAT and Valanciunas are worse, but they have only had 39 and 32 attempts per game against them respectively.

The next closest guy with similar attempts and really bad FG% defense is Jokic (78 attempts 66.7% FG%) which is still 6% better FG% allowed.

My personal take on his defense visually is that its been horrific. He's moving around like he's got cinderblocks on his feet on that end. Things look noticeably better when Jalen Smith (whom also has a terrible reputation defensively) is in there in terms of at least being able to contest or stay in front of someone.

I'd add that teams are hunting Vuc/Giddey pick and rolls and Giddey is way worse than anyone else on the team in his defensive responsibilities, and that's putting even more pressure on Vuc than existed previously and exacerbating the negative outcomes of his limitations.

Either way, Vuc on offense has been really incredible this year, Vuc on defense might be workable in a scheme of smart defenders, especially if you have quality on the perimeter, but that's still a huge hole in his game and likely will be forever, because at this point, it is physical limitations, he's too slow / unathletic. Probably knows what he should do / where he should be, but that's simply not enough given all the other cracks in our defense.

[Stratmaster]

I agree with all of those except I think Vuc has played defense much better this season. To the point where he hasn't been a liability.

Opponents are shooting 72.7% against him around the basket on 7.7 attempts per game. (72 total shots defended)

Among centers, only KAT and Valanciunas are worse, but they have only had 39 and 32 attempts per game against them respectively.

The next closest guy with similar attempts and really bad FG% defense is Jokic (78 attempts 66.7% FG%) which is still 6% better FG% allowed.

My personal take on his defense visually is that its been horrific. He's moving around like he's got cinderblocks on his feet on that end. Things look noticeably better when Jalen Smith (whom also has a terrible reputation defensively) is in there in terms of at least being able to contest or stay in front of someone.

I'd add that teams are hunting Vuc/Giddey pick and rolls and Giddey is way worse than anyone else on the team in his defensive responsibilities, and that's putting even more pressure on Vuc than existed previously and exacerbating the negative outcomes of his limitations.

Either way, Vuc on offense has been really incredible this year, Vuc on defense might be workable in a scheme of smart defenders, especially if you have quality on the perimeter, but that's still a huge hole in his game and likely will be forever, because at this point, it is physical limitations, he's too slow / unathletic. Probably knows what he should do / where he should be, but that's simply not enough given all the other cracks in our defense.

Define "around the basket" and what qualifies as being against him? If he is providing help defense and someone does at the basket is that charged against him?

Serious questions. I want to understand what the number means and it seems like, especially with defensive stats, different sorts are all over the place. Or just point me to your source and I will figure it out. I don't expect you to tutor me

[dougthonus]

Define "around the basket" and what qualifies as being against him? If he is providing help defense and someone does at the basket is that charged against him?

Serious questions. I want to understand what the number means and it seems like, especially with defensive stats, different sorts are all over the place. Or just point me to your source and I will figure it out. I don't expect you to tutor me

Source is NBA.com's advanced stats using synergy. The category is DFG% with shots within 6 ft of the basket. I wish I had more info than that, but that's all that is listed there, so not sure how it charges attempts.

Still, among centers, they'd all be fighting the same basic things in the system, and Vuc has by far the most attempts against him of anyone with a truly horrific DFG%.

If you are charged on not doing help defense correctly, that's still a critical role of the center in defense, and other centers aren't getting hit with the same problems, so again, feels like a Vuc issue.

I don't want to live and die by the stat really though because it is hard to fully quantify it, small sample size for any stats so far, but just an easy way to show what I believe I have seen defensively from him this year, which I think has more or less been an abomination.

To be clear, I don't view Vuc as a big problem this year, so I'm not trying to rail on him or anything. He's giving us a ton of offensive efficiency and that makes up for the defense, but I wouldn't say his defense has improved any.

[pipfan]

Trae Young is both a way better offensive player and a way worse defensive player than Vuc. Come one now.

Not sure about "way better" for Young. I think his offense (while very good) is overrated, due to turnovers and poor shot selection.

Vuc is "better" than him on D, but center is SO much more important that I think Vuc might be a bigger negative

I can't stand Young, and I would never want him on my team. Maybe you're right, Vuc might be #2 in this department behind Young, but it's close

[Andi Obst]

Trae Young is both a way better offensive player and a way worse defensive player than Vuc. Come one now.

Not sure about "way better" for Young. I think his offense (while very good) is overrated, due to turnovers and poor shot selection.

Vuc is "better" than him on D, but center is SO much more important that I think Vuc might be a bigger negative

I can't stand Young, and I would never want him on my team. Maybe you're right, Vuc might be #2 in this department behind Young, but it's close

Not sure about this season, but the Hawks have basically always been an elite offense with Young on the floor. He's been by far the best player on a team that made it to the ECF. I wouldn't want him on my team either, but Trae is better than Vuc on offense...by a ridiculous amount.

[NZB2323]

Front Office - worse plan.

[Clint Eastwood]

I just think its unfair to judge vuc defense when he has not played with a power forward for one minute while a member of the bulls. It makes a difference when he is the only player of reasonable size in there.