What if the Bulls just went for it?

[nanokooshball]

Devil's Advocate.

Bulls Team is starting to gel now. Had a few injuries and Ayo will come back soon. We had one of the hardest schedules prior to this month and we're 17-19, with a cupcake schedule coming up. We could easily be 26-23 at the end of the month and could be looking at 5th and 6th seed because of the East's decimated injuries.

We've shown we can beat any time on any given night (also lose to any given team). With the East looking particularly bad, and any injury to Celts or Cavs could be a chance at the ECF... do we say just go for it? We're not bad enough to keep our pick. So what's the point in tanking?

- Lonzo and Giddey look to be a great PG duo. Zach and Vuc are having All-Star years. Coby is getting back into it. Ayo was playing incredible before he went down. Matas has shown he can be a key defensive PF in our scheme if he can get more minutes.
- Let's say we look at trade deadline, not to dump players, but add members to go as far as possible.
- What moves would you make to put us into contending (for ECF) status...

Could dangle the POR pick + salary Carter, Craig (although I think he'd more useful in a run), Williams, etc. What could we realstically get that would help us? I think we'd need some shot blockers and lanky 3/4 on defense and a shot blocking center. Maybe have Smith play more PF.

- Targets - Butler, Johnathon Isaac, Capella, Claxton, Clowney, Nurkic, Zach Collins, John Collins, Harrison Barnes, Jerami Grant, Deni Avijda?

[nanokooshball]

And, knocking on wood so that the Bull's don't all of a sudden lose 5 in a row with my Bull-ish optimism

[meekrab]

White Williams Carter and Craig is enough salary to match Butler

[SpongeWorthy]

the discipline the FO always needed to show this season was to still press the reset button if things started to look pretty good

[WindyCityBorn]

Go for what? A 1st round loss. No way in Hell would I trade for Butler btw.

[t-time]

Go for what? A 1st round loss. No way in Hell would I trade for Butler btw.

Or we could tank and maybe build a team in 5 years time that can make the first round of the playoffs.

[WindyCityBorn]

Go for what? A 1st round loss. No way in Hell would I trade for Butler btw.

Or we could tank and maybe build a team in 5 years time that can make the first round of the playoffs.

We don’t need to tank. Just keep doing what we are doing now and make smart trades when an opportunity is available. Teams under .500 should not be going for it or going all in.

[HomoSapien]

Lately while watching this team, I really have felt that if Pat were either to rebound more or spend more time at the three with Smith or Craig at the 4 that (assuming his conditioning improves as he continues to shake off the injury) that this team would be pretty solid.

[Hangtime84]

I wouldn’t be upset if we didn’t blow our assets on Vuc. If we did not do that we should be a playoff caliber team right now

[Andi Obst]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

[dougthonus]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

[Andi Obst]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

I agree. That's why I added "if the opportunity presents itself".

And yeah, there aren't many rumors out there, but Marc Stein at least reported that he expects Vuc and Lonzo to be traded by the deadline (and he mentioned the Warriors for Vuc).

[dougthonus]

I agree. That's why I added "if the opportunity presents itself".

And yeah, there aren't many rumors out there, but Marc Stein at least reported that he expects Vuc and Lonzo to be traded by the deadline (and he mentioned the Warriors for Vuc).

Yeah, I read the steinline, and I would say while he made that statement, relative to other trade rumor reporting he does, there is little substance behind it. He hasn't listed a bunch of interested parties or bidders like he has with other trade options.

Either way, I'm fine trading one or both of those guys, just the return needs to be something.

[Andi Obst]

I agree. That's why I added "if the opportunity presents itself".

And yeah, there aren't many rumors out there, but Marc Stein at least reported that he expects Vuc and Lonzo to be traded by the deadline (and he mentioned the Warriors for Vuc).

Yeah, I read the steinline, and I would say while he made that statement, relative to other trade rumor reporting he does, there is little substance behind it. He hasn't listed a bunch of interested parties or bidders like he has with other trade options.

Either way, I'm fine trading one or both of those guys, just the return needs to be something.

I don't think you need much for Vuc or Lonzo though. I'd definitely take a couple of seconds + expirings.

Love the Lonzo comeback story, but I wouldn't want to be the team that gives him his next contract. Vuc is old, definitely not part of the next good Bulls team (if we ever see that) and his shooting numbers are extremely likely to come down to earth again.

[nanokooshball]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

This is the other piece I didn't verbalize in my post.

Is there any point in trading Vuc for 2 2nd rounders?
I don't really want to dump Zach for filler salary.
Trading Lonzo for a 2nd rounder as well... what's the point?

Now if we could get real assets for them... Vuc for Kuminga; a 1st rounder for Zach, 1st rounder for Lonzo... sure then long term picture it may look better, and I would be on board w that.

I do think this team if you sprinkle in another good player and maybe a vocal vet defensive center we could have a random shot at the ECF

[Andi Obst]

Is there any point in trading Vuc for 2 2nd rounders?
I don't really want to dump Zach for filler salary.
Trading Lonzo for a 2nd rounder as well... what's the point?

On Zach, I agree. But what's the point of keeping Vuc and/or Lonzo? The point of trading them is to keep and improve your own pick by giving up two helpful players who won't be part of your future anyway.

I do think this team if you sprinkle in another good player and maybe a vocal vet defensive center we could have a random shot at the ECF

That's insane.

[Guru]

Please don't let the two biggest debbie downers ruin your thread. I don't think the ECF is out of the question if they decided to go for it, even if I think trading Vuc is the most prudent decision.

This team is pretty good and they hate that because they would rather be right than anything else.

[sco]

Is there any point in trading Vuc for 2 2nd rounders?
I don't really want to dump Zach for filler salary.
Trading Lonzo for a 2nd rounder as well... what's the point?

On Zach, I agree. But what's the point of keeping Vuc and/or Lonzo? The point of trading them is to keep and improve your own pick by giving up two helpful players who won't be part of your future anyway.

I do think this team if you sprinkle in another good player and maybe a vocal vet defensive center we could have a random shot at the ECF

That's insane.

If the premise, going with the thread here, is to win now, then I don't see the point of trading Vuc for expirings and 2nds. None of that remotely helps us.

Same with Zo. He's expiring anyway, who wouldn't give up a 2nd to have the chance to keep him for a reasonable deal.

Now if a Coby/Pat/Vuc/Zo combo lands us another sub-30 very good player, then I'd get it.

[jnrjr79]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

There have been consistent rumors re: Vooch and Golden State.

Lonzo is probably more in the situation where he needs to keep proving his health and perhaps someone bites at the deadline.

[FriedRise]

They've been trying to trade Zach and Vooch, but there have been no takers. They're not just gonna give these players up for peanuts.

The Bulls are almost at .500 with a super easy schedule coming up. We have a better record at this point in the season compared to the last 2 years.

There are also so many mid teams in the East:
- Knicks bumslayed all December and are now trending down with fatigue because Thibs is playing every starter 40mpg+ and refusing to play more than 7 players. NYK have the hardest remaining schedule in the league.
- Orlando has been injured, though they might get some of their players back soon.
- Milwaukee have been mid since winning the in-season tournament.
- Atlanta was hot for a minute, but have now lost 3 in a row.
- Miami is trending way down after the whole Jimmy debacle, getting blown out by Utah at home.
- Outside of maybe Philly, I don't see Nets, Raps, Hornets, or Wiz making a run in the second half of the season. They're def not gonna catch the Bulls in terms of win totals.

If AK stands pat, we're destined to make at least the play-in and are on pace to shatter the Vegas prediction at the beginning of the year.