Pick Protections: Good franchises vs Bad Franchises

[HomoSapien]

In 2021, we acquired the Portland Trailblazer's first-round pick. The pick protections worked out as follows:

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Meanwhile, the Miami Heat acquired a first-round pick from the Warriors this trade deadline. By contrast, here's how the pick protections were set in that trade:

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Can we take a moment to appreciate just how terrible and nonsensical the pick protections on our Blazers pick is? With the way the Blazers are playing, there's a chance the pick could convey before 2028. But in what world does the logic "hey if the pick doesn't convey as a first by 2028, then we will punish ourselves by accepting a 2nd round pick" make sense? Either that pick should be 1-14 protected UNTIL it conveys, or it should eventually become unprotected (or at least increasingly less protected).

This might not be the most thread-worthy topic, but boy is this something that annoys me. Our front office is just bad in every respect. We lose all our trades at face value, but we even lose trades in the margins. It's so infuriating as a fan and I can't believe that the Reinsdorfs are just sitting by as they watch AKME diminish the world-class brand that used to be the Chicago Bulls.

[Dan Z]

I've said this before (and earlier today) that the protections on that pick are ridiculous. Wasn't Markkenann (even the Bulls version) worth more than this? Keep in mind that DJJ wasn't worth that much.

Also, there are many trades where a pick is protected, but then turns into two 2nds. AK couldn't even get them to agree to two!

Trades like this, and other things AK has said, makes me think he doesn't value picks all that much. It's crazy because picks are basically trade currency in the NBA.

[OzmanTheWizard]

AKME are just as bad, if not worse than GarPax at this point.


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[meekrab]

Sign and trades are just not very valuable in the NBA, even when the player is a RFA.

What's really insane is that the Trailblazers even gave up a first round pick in that deal to turn Derrick Jones Jr. into Larry Nance Jr.

[2weekswithpay]

The Bulls got a FRP for taking on 1 year of DJJ's salary and the Blazers had made the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons. I don't think this was a bad trade the Bulls just got unlucky. Lillard got hurt and the Blazers were no longer a playoff team.

[Dan Z]

The Bulls got a FRP for taking on 1 year of DJJ's salary and the Blazers had made the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons. I don't think this was a bad trade the Bulls just got unlucky. Lillard got hurt and the Blazers were no longer a playoff team.

Why not ask for better protections just in case? I bet the Blazers still say yes because, like you said, they were planning on making the playoffs. I also think Markkenen (the Bulls version) should've been worth more than a highly protected pick and a so-so role player.

When is the last time there was a trade with protections like this? Was there ever one?

[sco]

The Bulls got a FRP for taking on 1 year of DJJ's salary and the Blazers had made the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons. I don't think this was a bad trade the Bulls just got unlucky. Lillard got hurt and the Blazers were no longer a playoff team.

Why not ask for better protections just in case? I bet the Blazers still say yes because, like you said, they were planning on making the playoffs. I also think Markkenen (the Bulls version) should've been worth more than a highly protected pick and a so-so role player.

When is the last time there was a trade with protections like this? Was there ever one?

Is it just me or do others think AK isn't a detail oriented guy. His guy probably just said "we get a protected 1st back" and AK probably just said "that good deal".

[2weekswithpay]

The Bulls got a FRP for taking on 1 year of DJJ's salary and the Blazers had made the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons. I don't think this was a bad trade the Bulls just got unlucky. Lillard got hurt and the Blazers were no longer a playoff team.

Why not ask for better protections just in case? I bet the Blazers still say yes because, like you said, they were planning on making the playoffs. I also think Markkenen (the Bulls version) should've been worth more than a highly protected pick and a so-so role player.

When is the last time there was a trade with protections like this? Was there ever one?

They'll say no and find another team to work with. The Blazers didn't get Lauri, they swapped an expiring DJJ for Larry Nance. A lottery-protected first is fine given the Bulls aren't taking back bad salary and the Blazers aren't getting back someone who moves the needle for them.

[Dan Z]

The Bulls got a FRP for taking on 1 year of DJJ's salary and the Blazers had made the playoffs for 8 consecutive seasons. I don't think this was a bad trade the Bulls just got unlucky. Lillard got hurt and the Blazers were no longer a playoff team.

Why not ask for better protections just in case? I bet the Blazers still say yes because, like you said, they were planning on making the playoffs. I also think Markkenen (the Bulls version) should've been worth more than a highly protected pick and a so-so role player.

When is the last time there was a trade with protections like this? Was there ever one?

They'll say no and find another team to work with. The Blazers didn't get Lauri, they swapped an expiring DJJ for Larry Nance. A lottery-protected first is fine given the Bulls aren't taking back bad salary and the Blazers aren't getting back someone who moves the needle for them.

Then so be it, you look elsewhere. The Bulls weren't desperate to get rid of Markkanen and even back then he had some potential. I bet they could've got a better pick for him.

[Axl Rose]

On the other end you have to look at the awful protection they placed on picks they traded. They gave up 2 picks that were only top 4 protected (along with a WCJ) for Vuc and then another in a S&T for DeMar that was only top 10 that changed to 8 if not conveyed. It essentially cost us LaVine to get one of those back.

[MrSparkle]

On the other end you have to look at the awful protection they placed on picks they traded. They gave up 2 picks that were only top 4 protected (along with a WCJ) for Vuc and then another in a S&T for DeMar that was only top 10 that changed to 8 if not conveyed. It essentially cost us LaVine to get one of those back.

Not to mention Bulls could have simply matched (or threatened to match) our talented RFA… whereas tanking Spurs had zero interest in resigning their UFA. Interesting to know if negotiations were had, or AKME just said yes.

These guys have lost the margins on every single trade. It’s impressive.

[League Circles]

Funny to see this perspective just because I looked into the protections on this for the first time in forever within the last couple days and was outright excited at it from our perspective when I saw that we're probably getting a mid to late first from Portland within the 4 drafts lol.

[Dan Z]

On the other end you have to look at the awful protection they placed on picks they traded. They gave up 2 picks that were only top 4 protected (along with a WCJ) for Vuc and then another in a S&T for DeMar that was only top 10 that changed to 8 if not conveyed. It essentially cost us LaVine to get one of those back.

Not to mention Bulls could have simply matched (or threatened to match) our talented RFA… whereas tanking Spurs had zero interest in resigning their UFA. Interesting to know if negotiations were had, or AKME just said yes.

These guys have lost the margins on every single trade. It’s impressive.

Imagine if the Bulls didn't give up a first for DDR (which I still think would've been possible)...then we might go into the off season with an additional pick (from the Zach trade). Maybe the lower of the two Spurs 2025 picks? That means the Bulls would currently have #8 and #15 in the draft.

It's moves like that (plus picking well) that can turn a franchise around.

[2weekswithpay]

Why not ask for better protections just in case? I bet the Blazers still say yes because, like you said, they were planning on making the playoffs. I also think Markkenen (the Bulls version) should've been worth more than a highly protected pick and a so-so role player.

When is the last time there was a trade with protections like this? Was there ever one?

They'll say no and find another team to work with. The Blazers didn't get Lauri, they swapped an expiring DJJ for Larry Nance. A lottery-protected first is fine given the Bulls aren't taking back bad salary and the Blazers aren't getting back someone who moves the needle for them.

Then so be it, you look elsewhere. The Bulls weren't desperate to get rid of Markkanen and even back then he had some potential. I bet they could've got a better pick for him.

Both sides wanted to move on and a Lauri was a RFA. Trying to find a deal for Lauri was holding up the Bulls FA signings that offseason, they weren't going to keep him. The trade happened a month before training camp started, a protected lottery first was the most they were going to get for him.

[Mk0]

On the other end you have to look at the awful protection they placed on picks they traded. They gave up 2 picks that were only top 4 protected (along with a WCJ) for Vuc and then another in a S&T for DeMar that was only top 10 that changed to 8 if not conveyed. It essentially cost us LaVine to get one of those back.

Not to mention Bulls could have simply matched (or threatened to match) our talented RFA… whereas tanking Spurs had zero interest in resigning their UFA. Interesting to know if negotiations were had, or AKME just said yes.

These guys have lost the margins on every single trade. It’s impressive.

Imagine if the Bulls didn't give up a first for DDR (which I still think would've been possible)...then we might go into the off season with an additional pick (from the Zach trade). Maybe the lower of the two Spurs 2025 picks? That means the Bulls would currently have #8 and #15 in the draft.

It's moves like that (plus picking well) that can turn a franchise around.

Also keep in mind the Kings sent the Spurs an unprotected 2031 pick swap for taking on Harrison Barnes when the Bulls signed DDR. They killed Chicago and Sacramento in both of these deals by getting assets for nothing.

At least with the Zach trade we will have 3 smaller expiring contracts instead of just 1 big one. Now we just need someone to inform AKME that they are allowed to use those deals at or before the deadline in order to help other teams make a deal and we should get draft compensation for doing so.

[kodo]

Portland didn't get Lauri, they got Larry Nance. They're not going to pay an unprotected or lightly protected 1st rounder for Larry Nance, a bench undersized PF who doesn't shoot and has major injury issues. The full lottery protection was warranted.

The real question is if the Bulls gave Lauri away to Cleveland too easily, considering all CLE had to give up was Larry Nance and Markkanen was a key piece of them getting Donovan Mitchell. The answer is obviously yes, but the ineptness of our FO is old news.

Any thought of maximizing Lauri's trade value was thrown out the window when you bench him and say he's been benched because he's a losing player. He was third on the PF depth chart behind NBA benchwarmers Thad Young & Daniel Theis.

[Dan Z]

They'll say no and find another team to work with. The Blazers didn't get Lauri, they swapped an expiring DJJ for Larry Nance. A lottery-protected first is fine given the Bulls aren't taking back bad salary and the Blazers aren't getting back someone who moves the needle for them.

Then so be it, you look elsewhere. The Bulls weren't desperate to get rid of Markkanen and even back then he had some potential. I bet they could've got a better pick for him.

Both sides wanted to move on and a Lauri was a RFA. Trying to find a deal for Lauri was holding up the Bulls FA signings that offseason, they weren't going to keep him. The trade happened a month before training camp started, a protected lottery first was the most they were going to get for him.

Then you wait. Rushing into a deal and making a bad one is never a good move. If he's holding up FA then so be it (I can't remember the cap details...could they make any signings plus keep him? I know DDR and Lonzo were both S&T so..maybe?).

For a long time many people here have thought that the Portland pick will never convey. Some still feel that way. Portland is trending up so maybe it does, but it's still unknown.

If you found out back in 2021 that the Bulls traded Markkanen for one 2028 second and DJJ then you'd be very disappointed.

I think even in 2021 they could've got a pick that didn't have such crazy protections. I asked this earlier in the thread: when has a team ever traded for a pick with protections like this? Can you remember one? I can't.

[Dan Z]

Portland didn't get Lauri, they got Larry Nance. They're not going to pay an unprotected or lightly protected 1st rounder for Larry Nance, a bench undersized PF who doesn't shoot and has major injury issues. The full lottery protection was warranted.

The real question is if the Bulls gave Lauri away to Cleveland too easily, considering all CLE had to give up was Larry Nance and Markkanen was a key piece of them getting Donovan Mitchell. The answer is obviously yes, but the ineptness of our FO is old news.

Any thought of maximizing Lauri's trade value was thrown out the window when you bench him and say he's been benched because he's a losing player. He was third on the PF depth chart behind NBA benchwarmers Thad Young & Daniel Theis.

A lottery protected pick for Markkanen at that time would be okay (not ideal, but I know his value wasn't the same back then). But why get a pick with protections all the way to 2028? And not even get it to turn into two 2nds if it doesn't convey (which seems to be standard with most deals)?

[dougthonus]

If a team isn't getting enough value to gave up a high lottery pick under any circumstances, then you get into this situation with the 2nds.

Portland basically swapped DJJ for Nance, which isn't much value, and it's pretty easy to see where Portland was not going to ever gave up a lotto pick to make that swap.

Lauri wasn't going to get a whole ton of value, because we waited until he was a restricted free agent to try to move him.

[Dan Z]

If a team isn't getting enough value to gave up a high lottery pick under any circumstances, then you get into this situation with the 2nds.

Portland basically swapped DJJ for Nance, which isn't much value, and it's pretty easy to see where Portland was not going to ever gave up a lotto pick to make that swap.

Lauri wasn't going to get a whole ton of value, because we waited until he was a restricted free agent to try to move him.

Waiting too long. That seems like a typical move by AK.