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Jones has played well of late. He's a UFA after the season.

Do people want to keep him? At what price?

sco wrote:Jones has played well of late. He's a UFA after the season.

Do people want to keep him? At what price?

No chance on earth. Why?

We already have 4 better players under contract that can all play the only position he can play (the 1) in Coby, Ball, Carter and Ayo.

His best attribute - ball handling - isn't special enough for him to ever stand out in this group.

We need to keep salary clear as much as possible.

We already have our entire 15 man roster spoken for next year assuming we re-sign Giddey, Carter opts in, we keep both draft picks, and any trades bring back as many players as they send out. I think all of these contingencies are very likely to occur.

He's always been a quietly effective player, so he's a useful player to have as a backup 1. But like LC said there's no room for him, even if we trade other guys.

I'm actually surprised SAC didn't find a way to acquire him in the Lavine trade since they need a player like him more than we do.

$6M would be cool.

Just a system check… his Bulls stint is likely a honeymoon. 11 games, he’s at 18.3 PER and 64% TS which is way higher than his best Spurs season and career averages (15.1 PER, 56%).

The same deal with Collins. All players generally revert to means in larger sample size.

I like his handles and passing though, and he can shoot… but consider he’ll be less effective with worse shooting percentages.

A career PER of 15 is pretty damn good for a cheap player. For example, we have only 4 players on this year's roster who have played significant minutes for the Bulls who have a higher PER

Vuc
Jalen Smith
Zach
Giddey

To be sure, PER isn't the be-all and end-all, but at least on that measure, Tre is better than a bunch of guys on our roster whom we pay a lot more.

The guys we talk about would be in front of him, most are not most effective at PG. Coby, Ayo particularly. Neither should be backup PG, really. Carter, sure, but get rid of Debo, Zach, and Vuc and keep Carter at his age? No thanks, if we're going young, Carter's not the vet we want. I don't think Giddey ever starts at the 1, nor would I want him guarding PG's.

Coby and Ayo, will both be kept and resigned? Carter should be gone this summer. Get rid of Dalen Terry. Tre Jones looks like the best actual backup PG, assuming Ball starts. Let's keep increasing our talent level.

Infinity2152 wrote:The guys we talk about would be in front of him, most are not most effective at PG. Coby, Ayo particularly. Neither should be backup PG, really. Carter, sure, but get rid of Debo, Zach, and Vuc and keep Carter at his age? No thanks, if we're going young, Carter's not the vet we want. I don't think Giddey ever starts at the 1, nor would I want him guarding PG's.

Coby and Ayo, will both be kept and resigned? Carter should be gone this summer. Get rid of Dalen Terry. Tre Jones looks like the best actual backup PG, assuming Ball starts. Let's keep increasing our talent level.

But Carter is almost certainly back for next year on his player option. And yes we don't know what will happen with the other guys, but we do project to have at least Giddey and Ball as guys we'd rather have playing point (from whichever defensive position) than Jones, and IMO Jones is never going to be a real plus defender (nobody that small ever is IMO), so I can't fathom why it would make sense to lock up an OK backup semi-long term for a team as bad as us. Dalen Terry is also coming back next year because we stupidly picked up his 4th year option, and I'd much rather have him defend (and smother) the opposing 1 than have Tre Jones and his unimportant. With Giddey and Ball on board, our two primary points do not play the 1 position ideally, which means guys like Coby, Ayo, and Carter are best suited for it, in that order, over a guy like Jones. Nothing against him. He's a perfectly fine role playing backup in a vacuum. Just not for this team at this time.

This is why we can't have nice things IMO lol.

Ice Man wrote:A career PER of 15 is pretty damn good for a cheap player. For example, we have only 4 players on this year's roster who have played significant minutes for the Bulls who have a higher PER

Vuc
Jalen Smith
Zach
Giddey

To be sure, PER isn't the be-all and end-all, but at least on that measure, Tre is better than a bunch of guys on our roster whom we pay a lot more.

IMO, as far as building winning team basketball, I honestly believe that Tre Jones is the worst player on our 15 man roster. He looks better than Dalen Terry, but Dalen's defense IMO is more valuable than anything Jones can do. That's not an indictment of Jones though. We don't have super trashy players unlike the post Jimmy era (Grant, Valentine etc).

Tre has outplayed Ayo so far this season, and it doesn't make much sense to keep both as slashing guards who don't shoot 3s much.
Per 30 minutes (what Ayo averages this season):



I don't think it's a huge outlier because he's played better than this for SAS in the past, other than the 3P shooting which is probably a hot streak. But at the same production, I like Ayo's size.

kodo wrote:Tre has outplayed Ayo so far this season, and it doesn't make much sense to keep both as slashing guards who don't shoot 3s much.
Per 30 minutes (what Ayo averages this season):

Code: Select all

     PPG   RPG  APG  SPG  FG%  3P%
Ayo  12.2  3.5  4.5  1.1  49%  33%
Tre  13.9  3.8  4.8  1.5  56%  42%


I don't think it's a huge outlier because he's played better than this for SAS in the past, other than the 3P shooting which is probably a hot streak. But at the same production, I like Ayo's size.

Ayo is significantly better at the half of the game that is defense.

League Circles wrote:

Ice Man wrote:A career PER of 15 is pretty damn good for a cheap player. For example, we have only 4 players on this year's roster who have played significant minutes for the Bulls who have a higher PER

Vuc
Jalen Smith
Zach
Giddey

To be sure, PER isn't the be-all and end-all, but at least on that measure, Tre is better than a bunch of guys on our roster whom we pay a lot more.

IMO, as far as building winning team basketball, I honestly believe that Tre Jones is the worst player on our 15 man roster. He looks better than Dalen Terry, but Dalen's defense IMO is more valuable than anything Jones can do.

That's a strong statement. I don't see any way Tre isn't better than Huerter, THT, Carter, Dalen or Lidell. It's arguable if Julian Phillips and PAW are currently better. Although I can see an argument for upside.

Jvaughn wrote:

League Circles wrote:

Ice Man wrote:A career PER of 15 is pretty damn good for a cheap player. For example, we have only 4 players on this year's roster who have played significant minutes for the Bulls who have a higher PER

Vuc
Jalen Smith
Zach
Giddey

To be sure, PER isn't the be-all and end-all, but at least on that measure, Tre is better than a bunch of guys on our roster whom we pay a lot more.

IMO, as far as building winning team basketball, I honestly believe that Tre Jones is the worst player on our 15 man roster. He looks better than Dalen Terry, but Dalen's defense IMO is more valuable than anything Jones can do.

That's a strong statement. I don't see any way Tre isn't better than Huerter, THT, Carter, Dalen or Lidell. It's arguable if Julian Phillips and PAW are currently better. Although I can see an argument for upside.

Your point is fair, but I think Carter is better than he is given credit for. Huerter, now given a bigger role, is way better. But the truth is that the bottom of rosters are hard to evaluate.

sco wrote:

Jvaughn wrote:

League Circles wrote:
IMO, as far as building winning team basketball, I honestly believe that Tre Jones is the worst player on our 15 man roster. He looks better than Dalen Terry, but Dalen's defense IMO is more valuable than anything Jones can do.

That's a strong statement. I don't see any way Tre isn't better than Huerter, THT, Carter, Dalen or Lidell. It's arguable if Julian Phillips and PAW are currently better. Although I can see an argument for upside.

Your point is fair, but I think Carter is better than he is given credit for. Huerter, now given a bigger role, is way better. But the truth is that the bottom of rosters are hard to evaluate.

Yeah, makes sense. Honestly I see Tre very close to his brother in terms of production. He shouldn't be your full time starting PG, but he can handle the load if there are injuries. He's not going to win you too many games, but he's not going to lose you too many either. Very low mistakes and doesn't have those head scratching moments we see with a lot of our current PGs.

As for Carter, he could probably be a bigger impact on another team, but truthfully he's been pretty horrible since he got here. His one plus skill (3pt shooting) has completely disappeared. We signed him thinking he'd compete for a starting spot, and instead he played his way out of the rotation completely.

Huerter is a strange one. He came in the league as a shooter. He had a great first year in SAC, then his efficiency fell off a cliff. I will say he looks to regaining that shooting prowess. Just don't understand what happens to his shot every few years.

Jvaughn wrote:

sco wrote:

Jvaughn wrote:
That's a strong statement. I don't see any way Tre isn't better than Huerter, THT, Carter, Dalen or Lidell. It's arguable if Julian Phillips and PAW are currently better. Although I can see an argument for upside.

Your point is fair, but I think Carter is better than he is given credit for. Huerter, now given a bigger role, is way better. But the truth is that the bottom of rosters are hard to evaluate.

Yeah, makes sense. Honestly I see Tre very close to his brother in terms of production. He shouldn't be your full time starting PG, but he can handle the load if there are injuries. He's not going to win you too many games, but he's not going to lose you too many either. Very low mistakes and doesn't have those head scratching moments we see with a lot of our current PGs.

As for Carter, he could probably be a bigger impact on another team, but truthfully he's been pretty horrible since he got here. His one plus skill (3pt shooting) has completely disappeared. We signed him thinking he'd compete for a starting spot, and instead he played his way out of the rotation completely.

Huerter is a strange one. He came in the league as a shooter. He had a great first year in SAC, then his efficiency fell off a cliff. I will say he looks to regaining that shooting prowess. Just don't understand what happens to his shot every few years.

I think we underestimate the impact of role/minute consistency on 3pt shooting %. Carter has looked like his old self on those few occasions that he gets solid minutes. I've consistently thought that MIL should trade back for him.

League Circles wrote:

sco wrote:Jones has played well of late. He's a UFA after the season.

Do people want to keep him? At what price?

No chance on earth. Why?

We already have 4 better players under contract that can all play the only position he can play (the 1) in Coby, Ball, Carter and Ayo.

His best attribute - ball handling - isn't special enough for him to ever stand out in this group.

We need to keep salary clear as much as possible.

We already have our entire 15 man roster spoken for next year assuming we re-sign Giddey, Carter opts in, we keep both draft picks, and any trades bring back as many players as they send out. I think all of these contingencies are very likely to occur.

Carter is not better than Jones.

sco wrote:

Jvaughn wrote:

League Circles wrote:
IMO, as far as building winning team basketball, I honestly believe that Tre Jones is the worst player on our 15 man roster. He looks better than Dalen Terry, but Dalen's defense IMO is more valuable than anything Jones can do.

That's a strong statement. I don't see any way Tre isn't better than Huerter, THT, Carter, Dalen or Lidell. It's arguable if Julian Phillips and PAW are currently better. Although I can see an argument for upside.

Your point is fair, but I think Carter is better than he is given credit for. Huerter, now given a bigger role, is way better. But the truth is that the bottom of rosters are hard to evaluate.

Carter had his chance when we were all in on winning and he sucked. The reason doesn’t play is because he sucks.

WindyCityBorn wrote:

League Circles wrote:

sco wrote:Jones has played well of late. He's a UFA after the season.

Do people want to keep him? At what price?

No chance on earth. Why?

We already have 4 better players under contract that can all play the only position he can play (the 1) in Coby, Ball, Carter and Ayo.

His best attribute - ball handling - isn't special enough for him to ever stand out in this group.

We need to keep salary clear as much as possible.

We already have our entire 15 man roster spoken for next year assuming we re-sign Giddey, Carter opts in, we keep both draft picks, and any trades bring back as many players as they send out. I think all of these contingencies are very likely to occur.

Carter is not better than Jones.

IDK that there is enough of a difference to keep Jones. Also, I just don't want more non-3pt shooters on the roster.

sco wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:

League Circles wrote:No chance on earth. Why?

We already have 4 better players under contract that can all play the only position he can play (the 1) in Coby, Ball, Carter and Ayo.

His best attribute - ball handling - isn't special enough for him to ever stand out in this group.

We need to keep salary clear as much as possible.

We already have our entire 15 man roster spoken for next year assuming we re-sign Giddey, Carter opts in, we keep both draft picks, and any trades bring back as many players as they send out. I think all of these contingencies are very likely to occur.

Carter is not better than Jones.

IDK that there is enough of a difference to keep Jones. Also, I just don't want more non-3pt shooters on the roster.

I’d want to keep him simply as a trade piece. Which could be on cheap deal.

WindyCityBorn wrote:

sco wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Carter is not better than Jones.

IDK that there is enough of a difference to keep Jones. Also, I just don't want more non-3pt shooters on the roster.

I’d want to keep him simply as a trade piece. Which could be on cheap deal.

Who do you want to cut to keep him? Assuming we keep Giddey and Carter opts in, and any trades bring back the same number of guys (or fewer) that they send out, the only way to keep Jones is to renounce or stash our 2nd round pick, or release somebody like Terry or Phillips.

I wanted to make this thread but wasn't sure if it was worth it.

Tre has been playing very well of late and that has continued as he got to start.

If the price is right I wouldn't mind having him back next season. But, the Bulls need to remove their guard glut, the Bulls currently have Giddey, Coby, Ayo, Carter, Tre, THT, Ball & Huerter as guards. Huerter and Giddey have the size to play some forward, THT will probably (hopefully) be gone next season.

I think if the Bulls can trade Coby and Carter for non-guards or space/picks then keeping Tre on the cheapish (if possible) would be a good idea, he could potentially be a good trade piece.