Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[Red Larrivee]

As long as other teams are certain that you're going to match any offer anyway, they ("they" being only Brooklyn, really) won't be locking up their capspace for two days to make Giddey sign a pointless offer sheet. If Giddey is actually looking for 30+ mil a year and/or a player option, you make him find that on the open market. And he won't.

His strong play to finish the season definitely made me more optimistic about Giddey's future, but we shouldn't ignore that he was awful for a pretty significant stretch to start the season and that he's still a difficult player to build around.

Don’t be so sure he can’t get $30 million. That isn’t build around money. It’s 3rd best player money.

Yeah, at this point if he does get $30M, it's really not the end of the world. He'd be the 33rd highest-paid guard or 23rd highest-paid forward in the league with the cap rising over the life of the deal. It's by no means franchise player money and it would not signal that the Bulls are "building around" him.

Players like Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, C.J. McCollum, Jordan Poole and Immanuel Quickley make the same money. Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram make $8M more. Giddey has a reasonable argument to get that money.

[Evil_Headband]

I just don't see the Nets being interested in signing Giddey. They should still be at the aborsbing-bad-contracts-for-draft-capital stage in their rebuild.

[MrSparkle]

I just don't see the Nets being interested in signing Giddey. They should still be at the aborsbing-bad-contracts-for-draft-capital stage in their rebuild.

From who? The Bulls? (Patrick)

I can’t think of any luxury tax teams that need to dump salary AND have draft capital.

Lot of teams with big cap killers (Beal, Dame) don’t have any picks, nor would they spend more to dump them. And then a lot of costly players, you could argue they’re starters, not dumps (Jamal, MPJ, Grant, Porzingis, Jrue, etc.).

I think Giddey is a perfectly fine low-risk RFA for the Nets to pursue.

[WindyCityBorn]

I just don't see the Nets being interested in signing Giddey. They should still be at the aborsbing-bad-contracts-for-draft-capital stage in their rebuild.

Giddey is a 22 year old player with all-star potential. He exactly the type of player a rebuilding franchise like the Nets(and Bulls) should be pursuing.

[bledredwine]

Trade.

[sco]

Trade.

Hard to execute given that he's a UFA.

[jnrjr79]

Trade.

Hard to execute given that he's a UFA.

He's a RFA, FWIW.

[dougthonus]

Players like Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, C.J. McCollum, Jordan Poole and Immanuel Quickley make the same money. Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram make $8M more. Giddey has a reasonable argument to get that money.

I mean I think you just named a huge group of guys that people would say "That's a bad contract" about, so I don't know much happier that makes me feel. The ones you don't feel are bad contracts right now are guys that you still view have a lot of potential to be two way players if their offense continues to grow and still are concerned that they'll be bad contracts if it doesn't happen.

[Red Larrivee]

Players like Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, C.J. McCollum, Jordan Poole and Immanuel Quickley make the same money. Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram make $8M more. Giddey has a reasonable argument to get that money.

I mean I think you just named a huge group of guys that people would say "That's a bad contract" about, so I don't know much happier that makes me feel. The ones you don't feel are bad contracts right now are guys that you still view have a lot of potential to be two way players if their offense continues to grow and still are concerned that they'll be bad contracts if it doesn't happen.

I think Poole is the only player on that list who wouldn't have a market for a trade.

Either way, it's just pointing out that $30M isn't this grand figure. If you can sign him for less, then that's great; but I think the window for that is only cracked open at this point. $30M is in the range of what players of his caliber (or worse) are getting.

[Indomitable]

Trade.

Hard to execute given that he's a UFA.

What is a UFA?

He is a RFA. The can match or do a sign & trade.

[MrSparkle]

AK just laid a big old trap for his self, again.

I’m just reflecting how absurd this season has been.

Entered the year knowing you had top-10 protection on the Demar pick, and you entered knowing with the remaining roster that it was basically a 33-38 win team barre a Zach/Vuc dump. Yet they kept both and stayed on direct course for flirting with disaster and giving San Antonio the best possible pick at 11-12.

So they made the deal, got that pick secured instead of flirting with the 50% odds of giving it to SAS. Opened up FGAs and usage for Giddey, Coby — two guys without long contract security. Rather, the complete opposite- playing for big money. Before the deadline, imo these guys had next to no decent market value. Now they will certainly seek above-market value, and AK will give it.

We’ve slipped to miracle odds for Flagg. Total longshot. They’ll have to hope for a no-brainer Matas-style drop (Malauch, Kasparas, maybe Queen), cause any prospect that hasn’t slipped has been a disaster for this FO.

Sigh- pent up rant of the month. This team is going to enter next season flat. Who would’ve thought a $35m Giddey and the Collins/Huerter/Tre crew doesn’t play as well in October?

[dougthonus]

Players like Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, C.J. McCollum, Jordan Poole and Immanuel Quickley make the same money. Michael Porter Jr and Brandon Ingram make $8M more. Giddey has a reasonable argument to get that money.

I mean I think you just named a huge group of guys that people would say "That's a bad contract" about, so I don't know much happier that makes me feel. The ones you don't feel are bad contracts right now are guys that you still view have a lot of potential to be two way players if their offense continues to grow and still are concerned that they'll be bad contracts if it doesn't happen.

I think Poole is the only player on that list who wouldn't have a market for a trade.

Either way, it's just pointing out that $30M isn't this grand figure. If you can sign him for less, then that's great; but I think the window for that is only cracked open at this point. $30M is in the range of what players of his caliber (or worse) are getting.

I'd say Giddey strikes me as worse than most of the players on this list. Maybe only Poole is worse than him, so I'm not sure he's in that same category of player, but I agree 30M isn't a max deal or anything in today's NBA.

Giddey's still a polarizing guy whom has no real comparables which also makes the discussion hard as his quality is very much subjective and eye of the beholder depending what you choose to focus on. I'm probably at the lower end of that spectrum. Not in the "worthless bum" group or anything, but I still think his value to me is probably 20M. I can squint real hard and get to 25M. He's just a player that brings so many problems with him that are so difficult to solve once he's a big piece of what you're doing.

[sco]

AK just laid a big old trap for his self, again.

I’m just reflecting how absurd this season has been.

Entered the year knowing you had top-10 protection on the Demar pick, and you entered knowing with the remaining roster that it was basically a 33-38 win team barre a Zach/Vuc dump. Yet they kept both and stayed on direct course for flirting with disaster and giving San Antonio the best possible pick at 11-12.

So they made the deal, got that pick secured instead of flirting with the 50% odds of giving it to SAS. Opened up FGAs and usage for Giddey, Coby — two guys without long contract security. Rather, the complete opposite- playing for big money. Before the deadline, imo these guys had next to no decent market value. Now they will certainly seek above-market value, and AK will give it.

We’ve slipped to miracle odds for Flagg. Total longshot. They’ll have to hope for a no-brainer Matas-style drop (Malauch, Kasparas, maybe Queen), cause any prospect that hasn’t slipped has been a disaster for this FO.

Sigh- pent up rant of the month. This team is going to enter next season flat. Who would’ve thought a $35m Giddey and the Collins/Huerter/Tre crew doesn’t play as well in October?

You're right, but AK was never gonna tank. So he traded with that in mind. Is that what we'd do...of course not.

On Giddey and Coby, would you rather have them both play well and pay them market or both play poorly and let them walk/dump them. I'd prefer to have good potential pieces for the future than not.

[MrSparkle]

AK just laid a big old trap for his self, again.

I’m just reflecting how absurd this season has been.

Entered the year knowing you had top-10 protection on the Demar pick, and you entered knowing with the remaining roster that it was basically a 33-38 win team barre a Zach/Vuc dump. Yet they kept both and stayed on direct course for flirting with disaster and giving San Antonio the best possible pick at 11-12.

So they made the deal, got that pick secured instead of flirting with the 50% odds of giving it to SAS. Opened up FGAs and usage for Giddey, Coby — two guys without long contract security. Rather, the complete opposite- playing for big money. Before the deadline, imo these guys had next to no decent market value. Now they will certainly seek above-market value, and AK will give it.

We’ve slipped to miracle odds for Flagg. Total longshot. They’ll have to hope for a no-brainer Matas-style drop (Malauch, Kasparas, maybe Queen), cause any prospect that hasn’t slipped has been a disaster for this FO.

Sigh- pent up rant of the month. This team is going to enter next season flat. Who would’ve thought a $35m Giddey and the Collins/Huerter/Tre crew doesn’t play as well in October?

You're right, but AK was never gonna tank. So he traded with that in mind. Is that what we'd do...of course not.

On Giddey and Coby, would you rather have them both play well and pay them market or both play poorly and let them walk/dump them. I'd prefer to have good potential pieces for the future than not.

I’d rather them play poorly for the short-term and pay them less. If this FO has a pulse, they should be able to read their players without needing to see verbatim in-game results with huge minutes. Seems they’re incapable of doing that. Dumping Lauri, Gafford. Then the lunar opposite with Pat. Why the hell did they pay Pat above market?

They can’t tell what Giddey and Coby are worth without 2 months of Zach-free basketball? Are these guys professional basketball evaluators? I’m sorry, but it seems like they create their own problems. Putting a guy in the best position to succeed with 2 months left before his contract expires seems to be nonsensical.

They prioritized saving face with the Zach trade instead of setting the Bulls up for a tank season in summer 2024. In the end, they just keep driftin.

[jnrjr79]

AK just laid a big old trap for his self, again.

I’m just reflecting how absurd this season has been.

Entered the year knowing you had top-10 protection on the Demar pick, and you entered knowing with the remaining roster that it was basically a 33-38 win team barre a Zach/Vuc dump. Yet they kept both and stayed on direct course for flirting with disaster and giving San Antonio the best possible pick at 11-12.

So they made the deal, got that pick secured instead of flirting with the 50% odds of giving it to SAS. Opened up FGAs and usage for Giddey, Coby — two guys without long contract security. Rather, the complete opposite- playing for big money. Before the deadline, imo these guys had next to no decent market value. Now they will certainly seek above-market value, and AK will give it.

We’ve slipped to miracle odds for Flagg. Total longshot. They’ll have to hope for a no-brainer Matas-style drop (Malauch, Kasparas, maybe Queen), cause any prospect that hasn’t slipped has been a disaster for this FO.

Sigh- pent up rant of the month. This team is going to enter next season flat. Who would’ve thought a $35m Giddey and the Collins/Huerter/Tre crew doesn’t play as well in October?

You're right, but AK was never gonna tank. So he traded with that in mind. Is that what we'd do...of course not.

On Giddey and Coby, would you rather have them both play well and pay them market or both play poorly and let them walk/dump them. I'd prefer to have good potential pieces for the future than not.

I’d rather them play poorly for the short-term and pay them less. If this FO has a pulse, they should be able to read their players without needing to see verbatim in-game results with huge minutes. Seems they’re incapable of doing that. Dumping Lauri, Gafford. Then the lunar opposite with Pat. Why the hell did they pay Pat above market?

They can’t tell what Giddey and Coby are worth without 2 months of Zach-free basketball? Are these guys professional basketball evaluators? I’m sorry, but it seems like they create their own problems. Putting a guy in the best position to succeed with 2 months left before his contract expires seems to be nonsensical.

They prioritized saving face with the Zach trade instead of setting the Bulls up for a tank season in summer 2024. In the end, they just keep driftin.

I am no fan of AK, but "he acquired players who played well" is a pretty weird critique.

[MrSparkle]

You're right, but AK was never gonna tank. So he traded with that in mind. Is that what we'd do...of course not.

On Giddey and Coby, would you rather have them both play well and pay them market or both play poorly and let them walk/dump them. I'd prefer to have good potential pieces for the future than not.

I’d rather them play poorly for the short-term and pay them less. If this FO has a pulse, they should be able to read their players without needing to see verbatim in-game results with huge minutes. Seems they’re incapable of doing that. Dumping Lauri, Gafford. Then the lunar opposite with Pat. Why the hell did they pay Pat above market?

They can’t tell what Giddey and Coby are worth without 2 months of Zach-free basketball? Are these guys professional basketball evaluators? I’m sorry, but it seems like they create their own problems. Putting a guy in the best position to succeed with 2 months left before his contract expires seems to be nonsensical.

They prioritized saving face with the Zach trade instead of setting the Bulls up for a tank season in summer 2024. In the end, they just keep driftin.

I am no fan of AK, but "he acquired players who played well" is a pretty weird critique.

Kind of weird... I'll hand you that. But the NBA lottery system is weird, and we are the only team that valiantly sabotaged its high draft position to slip down to the ranks of the playoff teams that had late season meltdowns (Mavs, Kings, Hawks).

[jnrjr79]

I’d rather them play poorly for the short-term and pay them less. If this FO has a pulse, they should be able to read their players without needing to see verbatim in-game results with huge minutes. Seems they’re incapable of doing that. Dumping Lauri, Gafford. Then the lunar opposite with Pat. Why the hell did they pay Pat above market?

They can’t tell what Giddey and Coby are worth without 2 months of Zach-free basketball? Are these guys professional basketball evaluators? I’m sorry, but it seems like they create their own problems. Putting a guy in the best position to succeed with 2 months left before his contract expires seems to be nonsensical.

They prioritized saving face with the Zach trade instead of setting the Bulls up for a tank season in summer 2024. In the end, they just keep driftin.

I am no fan of AK, but "he acquired players who played well" is a pretty weird critique.

Kind of weird... I'll hand you that. But the NBA lottery system is weird, and we are the only team that valiantly sabotaged its high draft position to slip down to the ranks of the playoff teams that had late season meltdowns (Mavs, Kings, Hawks).

Oh, don't get me wrong, I very much wanted to tank this season. I'm just not specifically mad that Giddey and Coby ended up playing well. If the Bulls had failed to tank mostly because of vets who won't be around in the long-term playing well, I'd be pretty angry. But when the strong finish is on the backs of Giddey, Matas, and Coby, I just sort of adopt a "it is what it is" view of it.

[MrSparkle]

I am no fan of AK, but "he acquired players who played well" is a pretty weird critique.

Kind of weird... I'll hand you that. But the NBA lottery system is weird, and we are the only team that valiantly sabotaged its high draft position to slip down to the ranks of the playoff teams that had late season meltdowns (Mavs, Kings, Hawks).

Oh, don't get me wrong, I very much wanted to tank this season. I'm just not specifically mad that Giddey and Coby ended up playing well. If the Bulls had failed to tank mostly because of vets who won't be around in the long-term playing well, I'd be pretty angry. But when the strong finish is on the backs of Giddey, Matas, and Coby, I just sort of adopt a "it is what it is" view of it.

I get it too. In the end, this is what it is. I "enjoyed" the 6 weeks of Bulls basketball. Look, the Lakers buzzer beater was a high.

Just saying, in frustration, facing the music, that in the big picture, this 6 week win streak is probably going to cause another 3-4Y set-back unless some miracles happen (we draft a Kawhi/Giannis caliber player at #12 or win Flagg with 1.7% odds, we sign some superstar UFA). And we all know this could've been prevented by avoiding the #8-12 play-in range, which the entire planet had the Bulls forecasted at in October of 2024. It's all just frustrating. I think the triple whammy is that Giddey gets paid more, the team's pick is going to be worse, and a lot of the guys who helped squeak some wins (before a play-in crash) are not going to be Bulls after 2026.

Also, I'll just specify that Huerter, Zach Collins, Tre (before the injury), and ultimately Vuc (a playable veteran offensive C) did have big contributions helping the Bulls feast on that March-April schedule. I don't dislike the team, but if they overpay Giddey, Coby next... This roster is going to be an overpaid glut of play-in crap unless Matas becomes an MVP (add that to the miracles- he projects well, but not that well). The idea that are somewhere on track for $80M-100M for these 3 guys in 2027 should be concerning: Giddey-Coby-Patrick. As it stands, they might need to dump Patrick at some kind of asset loss.

[kulaz3000]

I mean I think you just named a huge group of guys that people would say "That's a bad contract" about, so I don't know much happier that makes me feel. The ones you don't feel are bad contracts right now are guys that you still view have a lot of potential to be two way players if their offense continues to grow and still are concerned that they'll be bad contracts if it doesn't happen.

I think Poole is the only player on that list who wouldn't have a market for a trade.

Either way, it's just pointing out that $30M isn't this grand figure. If you can sign him for less, then that's great; but I think the window for that is only cracked open at this point. $30M is in the range of what players of his caliber (or worse) are getting.

I'd say Giddey strikes me as worse than most of the players on this list. Maybe only Poole is worse than him, so I'm not sure he's in that same category of player, but I agree 30M isn't a max deal or anything in today's NBA.

Giddey's still a polarizing guy whom has no real comparables which also makes the discussion hard as his quality is very much subjective and eye of the beholder depending what you choose to focus on. I'm probably at the lower end of that spectrum. Not in the "worthless bum" group or anything, but I still think his value to me is probably 20M. I can squint real hard and get to 25M. He's just a player that brings so many problems with him that are so difficult to solve once he's a big piece of what you're doing.

You really think he is the worst of the bunch excluding Poole?

I don't know, I'd take Giddey over all of them, besides perhaps Suggs, and even that would be a toss up for me, because just as Giddey's defense is lacking, Suggs is vastly inconsistent as an offensively player. But I sure as hell take him over, Green (he is a chucker that doesn't play defense and has low basketball IQ), CJ (on the older end), Poole (need I say more), Quickley, perhaps a toss up, but another one-side of the court player, but unlike isn't great on that end, unlike Suggs who is an All-NBA defensive player.

You're not wrong though, he is a tricky player to evaluate, because there simply aren't that many comparable to him as far as NBA skillset goes, and he is one of those players that either excel or flounder based on the type of players around him and he definitely is suited to a specific style of play.

That said, I'm totally okay with him on a 30 million or thereabouts, type of contract considering the current climate of contracts. Mid-30's or higher, than I may start having an issue. But he has basically improved every single season, and he has a pretty damn high basketball IQ, and I see him continuing to get better.

[burlydee]

I mean I think you just named a huge group of guys that people would say "That's a bad contract" about, so I don't know much happier that makes me feel. The ones you don't feel are bad contracts right now are guys that you still view have a lot of potential to be two way players if their offense continues to grow and still are concerned that they'll be bad contracts if it doesn't happen.

I think Poole is the only player on that list who wouldn't have a market for a trade.

Either way, it's just pointing out that $30M isn't this grand figure. If you can sign him for less, then that's great; but I think the window for that is only cracked open at this point. $30M is in the range of what players of his caliber (or worse) are getting.

I'd say Giddey strikes me as worse than most of the players on this list. Maybe only Poole is worse than him, so I'm not sure he's in that same category of player, but I agree 30M isn't a max deal or anything in today's NBA.

Giddey's still a polarizing guy whom has no real comparables which also makes the discussion hard as his quality is very much subjective and eye of the beholder depending what you choose to focus on. I'm probably at the lower end of that spectrum. Not in the "worthless bum" group or anything, but I still think his value to me is probably 20M. I can squint real hard and get to 25M. He's just a player that brings so many problems with him that are so difficult to solve once he's a big piece of what you're doing.

I think Giddeys best case value is Halliburton. This really great, unique offensive player who doesn't give up the farm on D, allowing you to play a style that gives you an identity.

I think if/when the Bulls resign him they should lean into his play style. Unfortunately I'm not convinced AK knows what type of team to play around him or Billy will get the most out of them.

I think the Bulls need to play bigger and faster. They have the speed down, but too often want to play multiple point guards (Coby basically was a 2 once Lavine got traded) with Giddey instead of just giving him the ball.