Buy Low Candidate?

[othawhitemeat]

Hey all,

With us being in middle of nowhere IMO and I don't trust AKME at all, but looking at current NBA teams left, there are many buy low or not quite high candidates leading their teams. Althought AKME did get Giddey for Caruso

Hali - while many were surprised Kings traded, it was a tough move to get rid of Sabonis and he was the 12th pick overall.
Pacers also got Nesmith cause the Celtics were loaded and could not develop him.
Nembhard was early 2nd round pick
got Toppin when Knicks were not high on him
Siakim - not Pacers but Raptors drafted him late 1st
Myles Turner - stuck with him but the 11th pick
last year - Jalen Smith when they went after him from Suns when Suns gave up on him

Thunder - SGA - 11th pick and while looked to be promising was not thought of as more than a nice young player, but a nice piece in George trade
- Jalen Williams 12th pick
- Dort (UFA?)

T'Wolves - McDaniels - 28th pick
Reid - UFA
NAW - 17th pick

Knicks - Brunson - 2nd round pick and risked high on him from Mavs
Hart - 30th pick originally
OG - originally 23rd pick
McBride - 2nd round pick
Mitchell Robinson - 2nd round pick

2 of the other best players in the NBA are Giannis at 15th pick, Jokic as a 2nd round pick and even Butler, late 1st round.

My point being is that this is supposedly a deep draft with some nice possibilities to grab a good pick but also get some possible 2nd round flavor there. We got one in Ayo and we have 2 pieces to build around in Giddey assuming we re-sign him and Matas. Coby some people may think that, but I'm afraid of what to pay him and think some team could give a good haul in return.

2 questions - who are you players you think in this draft that could go to us at 12 or 2nd round and also what could we do in offseason to get a buy low-maybe get a superstar type risk?

For me:

at #12 - I like if available one of KJ, Essengue, or my surprise, Walter Clayton Jr. - I don't know how Clayton Jr. interviews but he has some Jamaal Murrayish to his game and a little of Coby. Maybe Sorber if his health checks out.

2nd round - I really like either skill or tough players - Javon Small, Broome, Thiero, Kalkbrenner, Brea, Proctor, Tonje, Alijah Martin, or my 2 favorites are Jamir Watkins from Florida State and Ya Konan Niederhauser. Both bring skillset.

For my offseason chances, I would trade Coby if I get a decent package such as would the Rockets trade their 10th pick and someone like Reed Sheppard or just swap Jabari Smith for Coby if Rockets feel like they need more scoring punch?

Would the Wolves feel they need more scoring while being over the cap? They are going to have to let some players go and could you get Shannon Jr. and the Pistons pick at 17? These are just some ideas.

[pipfan]

I have posted many times to try Port pick to OKC for #24/Dieng
I think the kid has talent, but OKC doesn't have the minutes to develop him. They save $, free up much needed roster spots and add a future pick
We add a talent at the 4 and a late 1st, to take BPA
Take Newell or Fleming at #12, add Dieng and whichever guard drops to #24 and call it a summer

[HomoSapien]

I'm curious about Reed Shepherd. He just doesn't have a clear role on that team.

[MrSparkle]

I'm curious about Reed Shepherd. He just doesn't have a clear role on that team.

Me too. But frankly, they have time to groom him as the FVV replacement. If he pans out, he could be the same player but with much better 3P shooting.

[rosenthall]

I'm interested in Jaime Jacquez's availability. He got banished from the Heat's rotation this year, and I'm not sure why. But he looked like he had a path to being a quality starter his rookie year. Looking at the Heat roster, I find it difficult to find a trade that makes sense, so I'm not sure he's all that attainable for us.

I think we really have to hope that Portland makes a leap this year so their pick becomes a more valuable trade piece.

[CROBulls]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

[Red8911]

I'm curious about Reed Shepherd. He just doesn't have a clear role on that team.

His role is to sit on the bench.

[DuckIII]

I'm curious about Reed Shepherd. He just doesn't have a clear role on that team.

His role is to sit on the bench.

As a rookie on a saturated backcourt for a team that was trying to win a title.

Are people suggesting that Reed Shepherd is no longer good?

[League Circles]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

Crazy story. Absolutely preposterous context of allegations but still might be true. But yeah he'll have lowered value now to N.O. or a trade recipient, fair or not.

[jnrjr79]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

Crazy story. Absolutely preposterous context of allegations but still might be true. But yeah he'll have lowered value now to N.O. or a trade recipient, fair or not.

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

[MrSparkle]

One key note about Haliburton and Shai.

*Young Prime all-stars* were given up for unproven young rookie contract prospects, who were dramatically lower impact players before their current teams.

Sabonis was a 2x all-star at 24, when traded. George was a 6x star and full healed from the leg injury at 28. Kind of a gamble giving up a proven star for a prospect.

Do we have somebody to give up of that caliber for somebody’s rising prospect? Indiana and OKC gave up something really good. Unless Coby or Giddey make the 26 ASG, we don’t have that kind of a piece to trade. And AK’s memo has been keeping his promising players. Zach after his 1st ASG and before the extension might’ve been the best shot, but even he was criticized and injured around deadline time.

This FO needs to draft well at #12 and 45. That’s sadly the only hope. The Giddey trade is TBD. The contract and his future development are risky… whereas OKC might’ve cemented their championship with that trade. I’d sum up AK’s trade history as high-risk/medium-reward, while Presti has made low-risk/high-reward moves. AK gave up 2 lotto picks and 2 prospect bigs who outplayed Vuc within a year. He gave up an all-defensive guard for an expiring RFA with rock-bottom value. We’ll see. Presti leveraged all his moves.

Teams aren’t looking to give up their rookie Shais and Halis. Sacramento happens to be a mess, and LAC had a pretty solid dynasty plan with Kawhi (but underestimated injuries and chemistry). It’s not like we want Matas to be someone else’s reward.

[kodo]

All these guys would be difficult to get now, but
- McCain & Quentin Grimes. Really depends on if Morey is win-now or going to rebuild, but so far he's said he's sticking with Embiid which means win now.
- Mathurin. He's a bench player for Indiana but great per min #s. He'll have to decide if he's going to be OK being on the bench long term on a playoff contender, might turn into a Kuminga type situation. He needs a non-rookie extension soon.
- Scoot. I don't think they consider him part of their core going forward in the future. They're not going to dump him for nothing, but he's more obtainable than Sharpe or Deni.

The problem w/ the Hali & SGA examples is that those teams had very highly rated all-star players to trade for those young kids. Bulls have nobody on the AS team to trade. The highest value player we had was Caruso, and AK did about as well as he could turning that into an asset vs letting AC just walk for nothing this summer.

If there's anything to learn about Hali/SGA, it's that you need to start with stars already on your team before you can get young guys like that.

[sco]

I still love the #24/Dieng idea for Por 1st. Also Jaquez and Sheppard would be interesting.

That said, I'd still be fine paying Jones $10M or less to come back.

From the opposite perspective, I still think there should be a deal to be done with POR for their 1st back. They are in a position to make the playoffs and having that pick without restrictions back (to use in trade) seems like it would have more value to them than it does for us.

[League Circles]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

Crazy story. Absolutely preposterous context of allegations but still might be true. But yeah he'll have lowered value now to N.O. or a trade recipient, fair or not.

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

If anything I think this makes it more likely he stays with NO long term. IMO the overwhelming likelihood is that it can never be conclusively determined how true or false the allegations are. Worth noting there is no criminal complaint, and the civil suit claims that the woman was repeatedly raped across several years and in several states. To me that's highly, highly eyebrow raising to say the least.

[MissileMike]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

Crazy story. Absolutely preposterous context of allegations but still might be true. But yeah he'll have lowered value now to N.O. or a trade recipient, fair or not.

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

Pretty strong response from Zion's team:

Statement: “We take these allegations with the utmost seriousness, and we unequivocally deny them. The allegations contained in the complaint are categorically false and reckless. This is the plaintiff’s third set of attorneys. This appears to be an attempt to exploit a professional athlete driven by a financial motive rather than any legitimate grievance.

Mr. Williamson and the plaintiff never dated, but did maintain a consensual, casual relationship that began more than six years ago, when he was 18 years old. That relationship ended years ago. At no point during or immediately after that relationship did the plaintiff raise any concerns. Only after the friendship ended did she begin demanding millions of dollars.

Mr. Williamson reported the plaintiff’s extortion attempts to law enforcement. We understand that an arrest warrant was issued in connection with that report, and we are prepared to provide the court with documentation that supports these facts.

Mr. Williamson also intends to file counterclaims and seek significant damages for this defamatory lawsuit. While these allegations are false, we recognize the seriousness of the claims and welcome the opportunity to prove the truth in court. We are confident that the legal process will expose the truth and fully vindicate Mr. Williamson.”

[HomoSapien]

I'm curious about Reed Shepherd. He just doesn't have a clear role on that team.

His role is to sit on the bench.

As a rookie on a saturated backcourt for a team that was trying to win a title.

Are people suggesting that Reed Shepherd is no longer good?

I wonder if either side would be open to a Coby-Reed deal.

[othawhitemeat]

His role is to sit on the bench.

As a rookie on a saturated backcourt for a team that was trying to win a title.

Are people suggesting that Reed Shepherd is no longer good?

I wonder if either side would be open to a Coby-Reed deal.

Houston to me, would have to throw in a sweetener. Maybe their 10th and we throw in our 2nd rounder?

[HomoSapien]

As a rookie on a saturated backcourt for a team that was trying to win a title.

Are people suggesting that Reed Shepherd is no longer good?

I wonder if either side would be open to a Coby-Reed deal.

Houston to me, would have to throw in a sweetener. Maybe their 10th and we throw in our 2nd rounder?

I mean if Reed and 10 was available for Coby, I'm packing his bags and I'm one of the few people here that think people are underrating Coby. Even 10 by itself for Coby is something I would do.

[Dan Z]

All these guys would be difficult to get now, but
- McCain & Quentin Grimes. Really depends on if Morey is win-now or going to rebuild, but so far he's said he's sticking with Embiid which means win now.
- Mathurin. He's a bench player for Indiana but great per min #s. He'll have to decide if he's going to be OK being on the bench long term on a playoff contender, might turn into a Kuminga type situation. He needs a non-rookie extension soon.
- Scoot. I don't think they consider him part of their core going forward in the future. They're not going to dump him for nothing, but he's more obtainable than Sharpe or Deni.

The problem w/ the Hali & SGA examples is that those teams had very highly rated all-star players to trade for those young kids. Bulls have nobody on the AS team to trade. The highest value player we had was Caruso, and AK did about as well as he could turning that into an asset vs letting AC just walk for nothing this summer.

If there's anything to learn about Hali/SGA, it's that you need to start with stars already on your team before you can get young guys like that.

Grimes is a FA and I bet Philly re-signs him. McCain had a good rookie year that was cut short due to injury and I doubt they'd trade him. My guess is that they give it one more year with PG/Embiid. If the two of them continue to be hurt or decline then in a year they can decide what to do. In the meanwhile they have the #3 pick and McCain to develop plus Maxey and Grimes are young too.

[jnrjr79]

Crazy story. Absolutely preposterous context of allegations but still might be true. But yeah he'll have lowered value now to N.O. or a trade recipient, fair or not.

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

If anything I think this makes it more likely he stays with NO long term. IMO the overwhelming likelihood is that it can never be conclusively determined how true or false the allegations are. Worth noting there is no criminal complaint, and the civil suit claims that the woman was repeatedly raped across several years and in several states. To me that's highly, highly eyebrow raising to say the least.

I obviously have no direct knowledge of it, but based on the news reports, I do not find anything "eyebrow raising" about it. It seems like a perfectly "normal" violent/abusive relationship fact pattern. But if she does not pursue criminal prosecution and just pursues the civil suit, I do sometimes find that scenario less credible.

There aren't criminal charges yet, but I don't think we know whether or not she has contacted law enforcement. And an investigation may result from the civil suit, so then you'd be monitoring to see whether she cooperates.

New Orleans could cut him right now, AFAIK, because he didn't hit the games-played threshold to guarantee his contract. It'll be interesting to see what they do.