Which young Bull(s) step up next year and how far can we go?

[Infinity2152]

Captain Optimist here! I'm rolled up and ready for battle! Let's go!

Play better next year, at least NBA role player: Ball, Williams, Ayo, Smith, Huerter

Playoff team. Our team played soooo much better the second half of the season. Not just individual players, individual talent, but the team played so tough Bulls fans were getting mad at too many wins. If that same team played together the whole season, they may have been a legit 6th or 7th seed.

Ball missed years and played 35 last year. Think he reaches 50+ this year if he's not pushed to start.

We have soooo many young guys!! We keep talking about draft picks, Terry, Phillips, Smith, Williams all have the physicals to take LEAPS. But realistically you could/should expect every player other than Vucevic to be better next year.

Think Vucevic is gone this summer. Now that they put him on the block, it's way more likely than not they move him. Our other centers are more suited to fast pace ball, and we're adding a lottery rookie. This team is a playoff team.

Bulls really like Coby. They could actually let him expire and try to re-sign him in free agency. I wouldn't, too much risk. Either way, if they trade him, it's for a player of equal or better value. I think they probably overvalue him.

I'd put the odds at 50/50 Coby and Vucevic are combined in a star trade and we're very good this year. Donovan has the team, is a good enough coach, and some of these young guys are going to show out this year.

We need to fire every person in charge of young player development, get a whole new staff. Steal guys from Miami and SA.
It feels criminal looking at the physicals on our young guys and their development over 2+ years. At least two of Williams, Ayo, Terry, Phillip, Smith has to break out at some point. What if its 4 of the 5, plus our rookie is great?

[GoBlue72391]

The poll seems unrelated to the title and the thread. I'm confused.

[Infinity2152]

The poll seems unrelated to the title and the thread. I'm confused.

I realize I'm more optimistic than most. Been talking a lot about the whole play in image. Think we're skipping the fact that we have like 7 young guys outside of the main two, Matas and Giddey. How the team looks if you expect 4-5 of those young guys step up, vs not counting them at all, plays a lot into where we think the team is.

Common thread is we need to improve our defense and number of defensive players, for instance. Our best defenders are probably Williams, Ball, Smith, Terry, Phillips, Ayo. Out of them, I think Ball will have a great year, Ayo will have a very good year, and Williams will step up in a faster offense with less responsibility. Means I think the defense is going to be better, therefore the team, than people who don't think those guys play heavy minutes. I voted Smith will improve. Thinks Vuc gets traded and our defense and offense work better, playoff team, not play in team.

Not accusing guys of forgetting those players. But players you think will play better will probably play more minutes. Just seeing how most guys see our young players, it's really hard to project these guys.

If the argument is we're a play in team already, then we'd be the same or worse next year to be a play in team. Pretty much factors no improvements, or not much, from 9 young guys.

[HomoSapien]

The poll seems unrelated to the title and the thread. I'm confused.

I realize I'm more optimistic than most. Been talking a lot about the whole play in image. Think we're skipping the fact that we have like 7 young guys outside of the main two, Matas and Giddey. How the team looks if you expect 4-5 of those young guys step up, vs not counting them at all, plays a lot into where we think the team is.

Common thread is we need to improve our defense and number of defensive players, for instance. Our best defenders are probably Williams, Ball, Smith, Terry, Phillips, Ayo. Out of them, I think Ball will have a great year, Ayo will have a very good year, and Williams will step up in a faster offense with less responsibility. Means I think the defense is going to be better, therefore the team, than people who don't think those guys play heavy minutes. I voted Smith will improve. Thinks Vuc gets traded and our defense and offense work better, playoff team, not play in team.

Not accusing guys of forgetting those players. But players you think will play better will probably play more minutes. Just seeing how most guys see our young players, it's really hard to project these guys.

No, he means the thread title "Will the Bulls be a play-in team in 2025" seems diffent/unrelated to the poll question.

[Infinity2152]

The poll seems unrelated to the title and the thread. I'm confused.

I realize I'm more optimistic than most. Been talking a lot about the whole play in image. Think we're skipping the fact that we have like 7 young guys outside of the main two, Matas and Giddey. How the team looks if you expect 4-5 of those young guys step up, vs not counting them at all, plays a lot into where we think the team is.

Common thread is we need to improve our defense and number of defensive players, for instance. Our best defenders are probably Williams, Ball, Smith, Terry, Phillips, Ayo. Out of them, I think Ball will have a great year, Ayo will have a very good year, and Williams will step up in a faster offense with less responsibility. Means I think the defense is going to be better, therefore the team, than people who don't think those guys play heavy minutes. I voted Smith will improve. Thinks Vuc gets traded and our defense and offense work better, playoff team, not play in team.

Not accusing guys of forgetting those players. But players you think will play better will probably play more minutes. Just seeing how most guys see our young players, it's really hard to project these guys.

No, he means the thread title "Will the Bulls be a play-in team in 2025" seems diffent/unrelated to the poll question.

I got you. Maybe should change the title, but without knowing who believes what young guys will be good, kind of hard to discuss where we'll be. We have like 9 young guys. Most will be here next season. I know who I'm hoping will be good next year. wanted to know who other guys think are going to be good before we start the discussion. Not trying to start fights or problems, just want to start the discussion from the same grounds.

Is there a way for me to change the title? Had a more comprehensive one, told too many characters, so I shortened it, gave the wrong idea I guess.

Example, was discussing adding Sabonis a lot. I think Williams, Ayo and Ball play a lot of minutes next year, Vucevic will be gone, and Smith will be good. So I look at our dfensive needs and the impact of adding Sabonis WAY different than somebody who thinks they don't play, or only 1 is good. That's all, but a huge part of my optimism. We're looking for rookies, I believe in (some of) the young guys we have. All in peace.

[HomoSapien]

I realize I'm more optimistic than most. Been talking a lot about the whole play in image. Think we're skipping the fact that we have like 7 young guys outside of the main two, Matas and Giddey. How the team looks if you expect 4-5 of those young guys step up, vs not counting them at all, plays a lot into where we think the team is.

Common thread is we need to improve our defense and number of defensive players, for instance. Our best defenders are probably Williams, Ball, Smith, Terry, Phillips, Ayo. Out of them, I think Ball will have a great year, Ayo will have a very good year, and Williams will step up in a faster offense with less responsibility. Means I think the defense is going to be better, therefore the team, than people who don't think those guys play heavy minutes. I voted Smith will improve. Thinks Vuc gets traded and our defense and offense work better, playoff team, not play in team.

Not accusing guys of forgetting those players. But players you think will play better will probably play more minutes. Just seeing how most guys see our young players, it's really hard to project these guys.

No, he means the thread title "Will the Bulls be a play-in team in 2025" seems diffent/unrelated to the poll question.

I got you. Maybe should change the title, but without knowing who believes what young guys will be good, kind of hard to discuss where we'll be. We have like 9 young guys. Most will be here next season. I know who I'm hoping will be good next year. wanted to know who other guys think are going to be good before we start the discussion. Not trying to start fights or problems, just want to start the discussion from the same grounds.

Is there a way for me to change the title? Had a more comprehensive one, told too many characters, so I shortened it, gave the wrong idea I guess.

No problem at all! There should a "pen" icon on your OP next to the +1 icon. Click that and you should be able to edit the title there if you want.

[Infinity2152]

No, he means the thread title "Will the Bulls be a play-in team in 2025" seems diffent/unrelated to the poll question.

I got you. Maybe should change the title, but without knowing who believes what young guys will be good, kind of hard to discuss where we'll be. We have like 9 young guys. Most will be here next season. I know who I'm hoping will be good next year. wanted to know who other guys think are going to be good before we start the discussion. Not trying to start fights or problems, just want to start the discussion from the same grounds.

Is there a way for me to change the title? Had a more comprehensive one, told too many characters, so I shortened it, gave the wrong idea I guess.

No problem at all! There should a "pen" icon on your OP next to the +1 icon. Click that and you should be able to edit the title there if you want.

Thanks, changed it. Man, we have so many physically gifted young guys it seems CRAZY we've damn near given up on them, lol! Myself included, it's like we have a bunch or fairly recent draft picks, based on age, we just have to develop them.

Most of our guys are in contract years, going to get more minutes than they ever have, should ball out. Expect Huerter and Collins to keep it up, too.

[sco]

A lot depends on who's still here, which is hard to predict.

IMO, Coby, Matas and Josh all here.

I think we will try to keep only 1 of Ball, Ayo, Jones.

I think we'll try, and fail, to trade Vuc (again).

Everyone else is possible, but not probable trade fodder.

[Infinity2152]

I've seen Ball in trade rumors, but I don't recall seeing any the Bulls initiated. I think it would be dumb for so many reasons. First, the only way you trade him is if you believe he's not going to be healthy. But we re-signed him. Odds are slim to none anything you get for Ball will be better than healthy Ball for cheap for the next two years. Second, with all these young guys, you need a couple of vets. I'm more bullish on the Vuc trade, Huerter and Collins are new and not leaders, we need Ball of the court too. He's a cheap vet option, and with a healthy season his value increases. Most players are tradeable, but I'd start with the worst fit/bad deals/ worst performing ones, not arguably one of the best players on a cheap contract.

Ayo's probably near his trade value low, but I could see him getting traded. Shouldn't happen now. Didn't put Jones in the poll, but I'd expect them to re-sign him if Ball and/or Ayo leave. The value of most of our young guys is probably pretty low, we should ride it out with Terry, Phillips, Smith, Ayo at least until they up their value. If not, they're cheap let them expire.

I'll add a caveat. I think Ball is worth at least as much as Caruso. If a Giddey type trade comes for Ball, I'm all for it.

What's your highest estimate of what Coby could get in free agency? Worst case scenario, because you know if we let him reach unrestricted free agency we're making/matching the highest offer. He probably scores a lot on this team as constructed and should have great counting stats. Maybe 25+ pts/game. 2026 version of Jordan Poole contract?

[_txchilibowl_]

I still believe in Pat. But for context, I also still believe in Santa Claus.

[GoBlue72391]

I got you. Maybe should change the title, but without knowing who believes what young guys will be good, kind of hard to discuss where we'll be. We have like 9 young guys. Most will be here next season. I know who I'm hoping will be good next year. wanted to know who other guys think are going to be good before we start the discussion. Not trying to start fights or problems, just want to start the discussion from the same grounds.

Is there a way for me to change the title? Had a more comprehensive one, told too many characters, so I shortened it, gave the wrong idea I guess.

No problem at all! There should a "pen" icon on your OP next to the +1 icon. Click that and you should be able to edit the title there if you want.

Thanks, changed it. Man, we have so many physically gifted young guys it seems CRAZY we've damn near given up on them, lol! Myself included, it's like we have a bunch or fairly recent draft picks, based on age, we just have to develop them.

Most of our guys are in contract years, going to get more minutes than they ever have, should ball out. Expect Huerter and Collins to keep it up, too.

We have a bunch of young players, but other than maybe 2 of them, they all have middling ceilings. That's not a great spot to be in.

[GoBlue72391]

I still believe in Pat. But for context, I also still believe in Santa Claus.

I also believe in Pat, in that I believe he is a real human being who exists on this planet concurrently with me.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Well anything is possible.

But it still doesn't guarantee we make the playoffs.

The East is weird. The top teams in the East are still going to be there. Cavs, Pacers, Knicks, Celtics.

But there is going to be a gauntlet of teams around the same tier fighting for the bottom half of the playoff spots.

In a lot of ways, it can be said that most of the play-in type teams have "Help on the way"

Philly whole team was out. Detroit wasn't at full strength. Atlanta was mostly hurt. Orlando was hurt most of the season. Toronto has an allstar player waiting to play. Giannis may still be in Milwaukee and you can never count Miami out.

We basically have the same team.

So its actually highly possible that we could have an improved players and still be in the 9-10 seed. We would need a complete team improvement or someone takes a Jimmy Butler type leap to get us to the playoff ranks.

[MisterRoy]

Continuity was preached, right? Same players, same results. AKME is winning.

[drosestruts]

Our biggest swing factor is Lonzo's health.

We were a +6.5 with Lonzo on the court vs opponents

With Lonzo off, we were -3.2

[ChettheJet]

Buzelis is the obvious pick. He should be in the middle of some weight training right now, not bulging muscles but strong enough to hold his own under the boards against many. Conditioning can always improve, polish on the shot

Whether or not Patrick takes a step is up to Billy. Coach has to get him out of the corner, make it his job to back cut to the basket, let somebody else spread the floor, put him in pick and roll to get him switched onto a guard and let him drive, post up or shoot over that guy. Some of that is trading Vucevic and who they get back in return as to how the half court offense runs. To me it's either Patrick or Huerter to start at the SF with the other having a role off the bench

I think Julian Phillips can be a bigger contributor, move on from Dalen Terry and get Phillips out there for the minutes he got, he should be working on his shot right now, he can rebound, run the floor and move without the ball. Put him in and see how he does

Everybody else doesn't have a great deal of untapped potential, the veterans have their games and younger guys are out of the potential category

[Shill]

I think our upside is capped because we have so many bad defenders in the starting lineup.

But if the offense picks up where it left off (sans the play-in game), we could at least be fun to watch.

[Infinity2152]

Far as I'm concerned, we got very little (good) production from Ayo, Phillips, Terry, Carter, Williams, Sanogo last year. Not nearly as much from Smith because he couldn't get on the floor. 35 games from Ball. That's damn near half the team. And we still probably have a better record if the Zach trade happens in the offseason.

Not looking for starter level performance from any of those guys next year (except Ball and Smith). Teams need good role players too, it's okay to have guys with mid ceilings if they're useful. Caruso physically looks like very mid ceiling, if that. Like I said before, most of those 8 are our best defenders. I refuse to believe none of them will play better. Plus we're adding a rookie and Ball should play more games and Matas will get more minutes.

I think we should be better next year, even without any additions. Those guys don't get better, most of them are probably gone next summer anyway.

[sco]

Our biggest swing factor is Lonzo's health.

We were a +6.5 with Lonzo on the court vs opponents

With Lonzo off, we were -3.2

I think folks forget just how impactful Ball is (because he seems so injury prone), but a healthy Ball giving us 20-24MPG would be very meaningful in terms of W-L.

I would love to keep Jones, who seemed every bit as impactful as Ball.

Other than health, I am a big believer in addition through subtraction from a Vuc trade and PWill.

Now it is 50/50 we get major improvements back to historically "best" levels from Ayo (now healthy) and Pat (with a normal offseason).

I could imagine a step-up from Phillips who trended well last season. Wouldn't be surprised if he passed Pat in the rotation.

[DuckIII]

I’m not going to make predictions on team success as I think there is a very real possibility AK trades away a bunch of stuff (starting with the 12 pick) for some sort of win now player which would throw everything off.

As for young players actually improving over last year:

Ayo - had been secretly playing the last two seasons with a fractured shoulder. I expect him to not only be better but much better. Plus he’ll be returning to a team that now plays his exact style of game. It’s a perfect match.

Pat - it’s unthinkable that he would not improve over last year’s complete and total debacle. The question is will he be improved beyond the “best” he ever was. I wouldn’t bet on it.

Matas - obviously we all expect him to improve the most. He is our highest ceiling player and is coming off a rookie season in which he improved throughout.

I’d like to say Jalen Smith but for reasons I do not understand BD doesn’t play him.

I don’t expect Coby or Giddey to improve over late-season levels and will be ecstatic if they can just be more or less the same. That would be a MAJOR development.

The rest of the guys I don’t care enough about to bother, or are already who they are.