Bulls viewed AK's rebuild as a success / other tidbits

[dougthonus]

A couple tidbits from the By The Horns podcast (owned by CHSN and thus the Bulls) with KC Johnson and Cam Smith discussing the extension.

1: Extension runs through 27/28 season. I'm sure the Bulls could trivially just fire these guys, it's unlikely they're paying more than 5M a year combined for them, so at the end of this season you probably have a cap of 10M dollar hit on replacing them. In the context of team revenues that's very small.

2: The Bulls viewed AK's first rebuild as a success. They think he is 1 for 1 so far in his roster make overs and this next year is the start of attempt #2.

3: The Bulls intend to be methodical with this rebuild and we should be patient, we will not be looking to make big swings like the Vuc trade.

[cocktailswith_2short]

Stressing patience . Well idiots how about swinging for the fences for the right player instead of Nikola Vucevic.

[Bulliever2020]

This just confirms the depressing fact of the objective of this organization

Selling tickets > winning games

[HomoSapien]

We are such a joke.

[dougthonus]

This just confirms the depressing fact of the objective of this organization

Selling tickets > winning games

I don't think anything AK has has been good at selling tickets, nor does the current plan of methodical rebuild seem likely to juice ticket sales either. This is the least interested I have ever seen the Bulls fan base.

I think the fundamental problem is worse than "the Bulls prioritize profits over winning". Those things are at least reasonably correlated, so driving profits usually happens by winning.

The fundamental problem is they do not have any idea how to analyze the actual things going on in the basketball world and judge success. They do not filter the noise properly or understand how to weigh the results relative to the various reasonable opportunities or alternate paths, and so they do not actually know how to weigh if things are good or bad properly even to their own standards of making money.

[GetBuLLish]

A couple tidbits from the By The Horns podcast (owned by CHSN and thus the Bulls) with KC Johnson and Cam Smith discussing the extension.

1: Extension runs through 27/28 season. I'm sure the Bulls could trivially just fire these guys, it's unlikely they're paying more than 5M a year combined for them, so at the end of this season you probably have a cap of 10M dollar hit on replacing them. In the context of team revenues that's very small.

2: The Bulls viewed AK's first rebuild as a success. They think he is 1 for 1 so far in his roster make overs and this next year is the start of attempt #2.

3: The Bulls intend to be methodical with this rebuild and we should be patient, we will not be looking to make big swings like the Vuc trade.

Aren't 2 and 3 inconsistent? If the first rebuild, which included a big swing in the Vuc trade, was a success, why alter the approach now?

Also, the first rebuild was not slow and methodical. But if they viewed it as a success, why change things now?

[dougthonus]

I will say if I wanted to put a positive spin on this, I'd say that maybe AK has learned from his first round of mistakes and will be better this time around.

KC saying they want a draft oriented, methodical rebuild around young talents is at least a reasonable approach given our current position. Though I think he's largely been a disaster so far, the idea that he may have realized a lot of things he did were poor and that he needs to change gives me some hope.

I think the Giddey extension will be a good barometer of that. You just got burned by Pat/Vuc extensions where you bid against yourself. Do you do that now with Giddey or do you play hard ball? If he plays hard ball with Giddey, I will feel way more confident that he is taking on some of the lessons from his past failures. This is regardless of whether Giddey is the right move or not, just the idea that you realize you need to execute your leverage in negotiations would be a huge improvement.

[dougthonus]

Aren't 2 and 3 inconsistent? If the first rebuild, which included a big swing in the Vuc trade, was a success, why alter the approach now?

Also, the first rebuild was not slow and methodical. But if they viewed it as a success, why change things now?

Good points, I'm encouraged by #3 because I disagree strongly with #2. I hope AK also disagrees strongly with #2 privately even though he would never admit it publicly and has learned.

[Bulliever2020]

This just confirms the depressing fact of the objective of this organization

Selling tickets > winning games

I don't think anything AK has has been good at selling tickets, nor does the current plan of methodical rebuild seem likely to juice ticket sales either. This is the least interested I have ever seen the Bulls fan base.

I think the fundamental problem is worse than "the Bulls prioritize profits over winning". Those things are at least reasonably correlated, so driving profits usually happens by winning.

The fundamental problem is they do not have any idea how to analyze the actual things going on in the basketball world and judge success. They do not filter the noise properly or understand how to weigh the results relative to the various reasonable opportunities or alternate paths, and so they do not actually know how to weigh if things are good or bad properly even to their own standards of making money.

Bulls fans will go to games if the team is at least mediocre and that is exactly what he has done. Bulls #1 in attendance numbers every year he has been GM. That is all they care about and he has achieved that. There is no arguing that point.

I would not call this a methodical rebuild at all either. This team is going to be right back in the mix for a play in spot next year.

[MrSparkle]

Arturas’ quote “we won’t settle for mediocrity” has consistently rung in my head. Man oh man have the AK Bulls been the poster-child for mediocrity.

[sco]

Aren't 2 and 3 inconsistent? If the first rebuild, which included a big swing in the Vuc trade, was a success, why alter the approach now?

Also, the first rebuild was not slow and methodical. But if they viewed it as a success, why change things now?

Good points, I'm encouraged by #3 because I disagree strongly with #2. I hope AK also disagrees strongly with #2 privately even though he would never admit it publicly and has learned.

I don't disagree strongly with #2. I do think that team with a healthy Ball was a very good team. I think we all underestimate the import that Ball had to that team. He was both the prime playmaker and defender. Yeah, sure, the Vuc trade ended-up bad, but had Ball not had a horrific injury, those Vuc picks would have been in the mid-20's. Point being that AK had a plan for a roster build that wasn't bad and he executed it. It worked out horribly, but I can't put that all on AK.

I think #3 comes along with the realization that we don't have a #1 option of the roster and we don't have the assets to both land a #1 option AND retain enough talent to put around him to compete. Giannis with a bunch of scrubs is what he has now...that's not a winning model.

[dougthonus]

Bulls fans will go to games if the team is at least mediocre and that is exactly what he has done. Bulls #1 in attendance numbers every year he has been GM. That is all they care about and he has achieved that. There is no arguing that point.

I would not call this a methodical rebuild at all either. This team is going to be right back in the mix for a play in spot next year.

Attendance numbers aren't the best barometer of making money. They are frequently massively juiced due to charitable donations and is no where near as important as true popularity of the team in terms of TV ratings and brand sales. They don't make that much money in in-person attendance compared to those things.

The Bulls have averaged 3% revenue growth over the past decade vs a league average of 5%. They aren't doing well financially.

[ChettheJet]

The first move of keeping Lavine,the Vucevic trade, adding DeRozan, Ball, Caruso wasn't a failure until Lonzo then Patrick got injured.

Looking back to the failure of Boylan, with a competent coach I think they could have kept Markkanen, maybe Dunn, traded Lavine. Hindsight shows that trading for Vucevic sure didn't work out and giving up 2 picks dug a deep hole.

We're here after trading Caruso for Giddey which nearly everybody hated because they didn't get 2 FRPs and hated may be putting it lightly. Lavine did get traded for our pick back and 3 contributing rotation players, face it few thought they could make any deal to move Zach without adding picks . It's with high hopes that by draft day they can move Vucevic and wipe the slate clean on the first plan, see what he brings and draft #12. Then take a deep breath.

This season should begin as the end of the first step in the current rebuild. Step 2 is all the expiring contracts, who to resign who can get traded and who is just gone,


Here's the thing, those here who want to call AKME, BD and any other initials idiots, the Bulls have a business, they extended those guys and they didn't make a single phone call to anyone on this board to consult or offer a job, That bugs the crap out of you, fine, go follow another team that values your amateur opinions enough to call you.

[ghostinthepost1]

I will say if I wanted to put a positive spin on this, I'd say that maybe AK has learned from his first round of mistakes and will be better this time around.

KC saying they want a draft oriented, methodical rebuild around young talents is at least a reasonable approach given our current position. Though I think he's largely been a disaster so far, the idea that he may have realized a lot of things he did were poor and that he needs to change gives me some hope.

I think the Giddey extension will be a good barometer of that. You just got burned by Pat/Vuc extensions where you bid against yourself. Do you do that now with Giddey or do you play hard ball? If he plays hard ball with Giddey, I will feel way more confident that he is taking on some of the lessons from his past failures. This is regardless of whether Giddey is the right move or not, just the idea that you realize you need to execute your leverage in negotiations would be a huge improvement.

Just to add to the "maybe AK learned from his first failure" positive spin: He seems more concerned about fit this time around. A lot of the reporting this off-season has been about how AK wants players who fit the new "system" of playing super fast and shooting a bunch of 3s.

[prolific passer]

Remember when Jordan said in the press conference after game 6 of the 97 finals that Cubs have been rebuilding for 40 something years? That's what the bulls are now. Those cubs that Jordan was referencing. It's been 26 years now.

[dougthonus]

I don't disagree strongly with #2. I do think that team with a healthy Ball was a very good team. I think we all underestimate the import that Ball had to that team. He was both the prime playmaker and defender. Yeah, sure, the Vuc trade ended-up bad, but had Ball not had a horrific injury, those Vuc picks would have been in the mid-20's. Point being that AK had a plan for a roster build that wasn't bad and he executed it. It worked out horribly, but I can't put that all on AK.

I think #3 comes along with the realization that we don't have a #1 option of the roster and we don't have the assets to both land a #1 option AND retain enough talent to put around him to compete. Giannis with a bunch of scrubs is what he has now...that's not a winning model.

Lonzo's expected games missed per year when we signed him was 30 based on his previous history. We obviously did way worse than that, but on the flip side, DDR's expected performance was way less than what we got. We got an all-NBA season out of him that year, when he hadn't been even close to that level for the previous 3 years. At his age, that was an extremely unlikely event.

Just pointing out the bad luck and ignoring the good luck isn't a way that I would judge this. Yes, Lonzo was important, and Lonzo was a known large injury risk. DDR, Vuc, and Zach were an absolutely atrocious fit on paper going into this, and it more or less worked out that way.

The good year was also in COVID and relied on a crap ton of miracle finishes, tons of roster disruptions around the league, and overall had many ear marks of potential fluke.

But either way, if you want to say his roster construction was fine as a rebuild then it was still obvious he needed to move off of it at the trade deadline in year 2. He refused to move Zach for multiple picks, DDR for multiple picks, Caruso for multiple picks. He leaned on the Ball injury, literally for three straight years. He talked more about Ball being out than GarPax did about Derrick Rose being out, despite Rose being a dramatically higher level player and eating up 2x the money as a cap hit.

[League Circles]

Yikes at the idea that build #1 was a success. There's just no **** way to justify that. At best it was very, very mediocre.

I also don't believe they truly think that. Not that KC is lying, but when you give a guy an extension, you almost have to speak positively of what he's done so far. But there are signs that even AK doesn't believe it was successful.

[Hangtime84]

The first move of keeping Lavine,the Vucevic trade, adding DeRozan, Ball, Caruso wasn't a failure until Lonzo then Patrick got injured.

Looking back to the failure of Boylan, with a competent coach I think they could have kept Markkanen, maybe Dunn, traded Lavine. Hindsight shows that trading for Vucevic sure didn't work out and giving up 2 picks dug a deep hole.

We're here after trading Caruso for Giddey which nearly everybody hated because they didn't get 2 FRPs and hated may be putting it lightly. Lavine did get traded for our pick back and 3 contributing rotation players, face it few thought they could make any deal to move Zach without adding picks . It's with high hopes that by draft day they can move Vucevic and wipe the slate clean on the first plan, see what he brings and draft #12. Then take a deep breath.

This season should begin as the end of the first step in the current rebuild. Step 2 is all the expiring contracts, who to resign who can get traded and who is just gone,


Here's the thing, those here who want to call AKME, BD and any other initials idiots, the Bulls have a business, they extended those guys and they didn't make a single phone call to anyone on this board to consult or offer a job, That bugs the crap out of you, fine, go follow another team that values your amateur opinions enough to call you.

I think that’s just part of being a fan is having fanatical points of views without objectivity. Bulls have long road to go, but capatalizing on assets is important.

Memphis just traded Bane for the nba currency which is first rounders this allows them to move to Jayden Wells and assets for another player they believe fits better.

Chicago had their chance to do this with Zach Lavine where a similar player Coby White was waiting for an opportunity.

[DASMACKDOWN]

The first move of keeping Lavine,the Vucevic trade, adding DeRozan, Ball, Caruso wasn't a failure until Lonzo then Patrick got injured.

Looking back to the failure of Boylan, with a competent coach I think they could have kept Markkanen, maybe Dunn, traded Lavine. Hindsight shows that trading for Vucevic sure didn't work out and giving up 2 picks dug a deep hole.

We're here after trading Caruso for Giddey which nearly everybody hated because they didn't get 2 FRPs and hated may be putting it lightly. Lavine did get traded for our pick back and 3 contributing rotation players, face it few thought they could make any deal to move Zach without adding picks . It's with high hopes that by draft day they can move Vucevic and wipe the slate clean on the first plan, see what he brings and draft #12. Then take a deep breath.

This season should begin as the end of the first step in the current rebuild. Step 2 is all the expiring contracts, who to resign who can get traded and who is just gone,


Here's the thing, those here who want to call AKME, BD and any other initials idiots, the Bulls have a business, they extended those guys and they didn't make a single phone call to anyone on this board to consult or offer a job, That bugs the crap out of you, fine, go follow another team that values your amateur opinions enough to call you.

I think that’s just part of being a fan is having fanatical points of views without objectivity. Bulls have long road to go, but capatalizing on assets is important.

Memphis just traded Bane for the nba currency which is first rounders this allows them to move to Jayden Wells and assets for another player they believe fits better.

Chicago had their chance to do this with Zach Lavine where a similar player Coby White was waiting for an opportunity.

Memphis is probably just about to tear things down. Trading Bane wasnt a better move. Its just a reset. If Ja or JJJ get moved, it was purely a reset.

Also it can be said that they didnt even need to reset. All their pieces are there. They just were hurt alot the last 2 years.

[Bulliever2020]

Bulls fans will go to games if the team is at least mediocre and that is exactly what he has done. Bulls #1 in attendance numbers every year he has been GM. That is all they care about and he has achieved that. There is no arguing that point.

I would not call this a methodical rebuild at all either. This team is going to be right back in the mix for a play in spot next year.

Attendance numbers aren't the best barometer of making money. They are frequently massively juiced due to charitable donations and is no where near as important as true popularity of the team in terms of TV ratings and brand sales. They don't make that much money in in-person attendance compared to those things.

The Bulls have averaged 3% revenue growth over the past decade vs a league average of 5%. They aren't doing well financially.

Spin it as much as you want Doug. There is absolutely no way you are going to convince me the Bulls are not doing well financially.

Bulls ranked 7th in revenue in 2023/24, an 11% increase from the previous year. I have no idea why you would quote the past decade average and include their rebuild period when we are talking about AK's tenure. Either way they are FAR from struggling financially and are easily one of the most profitable teams in the NBA.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193704/revenue-of-national-basketball-association-teams-in-2010/