Key to better rotations utilized by Boylan

[whodey]

If this has been mentioned, merge to appropriate thread or lock.

But one key thing that has not been mentioned, at least not that i know of, is how the rotations are being used. I have noticed that deng, hinrich, and even wallace have been playing the entire 1st and 3rd quarters. Sometimes a player might be pulled with about 1-2 minutes left like wallace, but deng and hinrich have been pretty much been the entire quarter unless there has been foul trouble. It really keeps a much better flow to the game. I have said that going to gordon at the 5-6 minute mark in the first is awesome, it keeps him fresher through the game, and on top of that when he comes in, his legs are fresher than those playing the first 5-6 minutes. Nocioni coming in at the 3-4 minute mark for smith is something i have noticed. And then take wallace out at the 1-2 minute mark. This allows just one player to have to get into the flow at a time. Then bring duhon and smith to start the 2nd and 4th to play alongside gordon, noch, and noah. Regardless, that's what real NBA teams do and it's about time after 3 years we have found a coach that understands NBA rotations. We always did this for the most part with pippen and jordan, play them the entire 1st unless a whistle blew with like 30 seconds to avoid a dumb foul.

1st quarter:.......................2nd quarter:
PG Duhon 6, Hinrich 6.........PG Duhon 6 Hinrich 6
SG Hinrich 6, Gordon 6.......SG Gordon 12
SF Deng 12........................SF Nocioni 5 Deng 7
PF Smith 8, Nocioni 4..........PF Smith 5 Nocioni 4 Noah 3
C Wallace 10, Noah 2 .........C Noah 5 Wallace 7

3rd quarter........................4th quarter
PG Duhon 5 Hinrich 7..........PG Duhon 4 Hinrich 8
SG Hinrich 5 Gordon 7........SG Gordon 12
SF Deng 12........................SF Nocioni 4 Deng 8
PF Smith 8 Nocioni 4...........PF Smith 6 Nocioni 6
C Wallace 10 Noah 2..........C Noah 4 Wallace 8

Now obviously they can be tweaked because of matchups and maybe someone is having a great day, BUT the key is to get some consistency with guys together on the court. Not to leave them in situations that they can't succeed in. The only time noah and wallace are on the floor together should be times when we got deng or noch, gordon, and hinrich on the court. By the way, this kills thomas's development, we just got to find a way to get some value for this guy because he is obviously getting lost in our rotations. I wish tyrus could develop to take noch's place, but it's not best for the team right now.

This isn't the only reason we're playing better, but it helps. The easy schedule and the freedom on the court is also factors. That being said, we weren't even winning the easy games before or looking good. I can't believe the guys couldnt stand skiles that much. Looks like there was more going on than we all knew. Whatever though, keep it up Bullies.

[coldfish]

I just put this in the game thread, but I have to agree. I REALLY like the way Boylan gives out minutes:

- Leaves Gordon on the floor for loooong stretches, which usually lets him get through cold spells.
- Adjusts second half minutes based on first half results. Noah getting burn over Nocioni and Gray tonight was the logical move, but not one you may see with Skiles.
- Has Deng in a set minutes pattern. Its predictable when he is going in and out of the lineup.

[sk33]

Now if #24 gets activated...

[DuckIII]

The key to Boylan's rotations? Logic. Its a refreshing change.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Hey, even my freshman year high school basketball coach understood rotations like this, and he was a dummy. (I fit in his Noah slot by the way, woot)

Its not rocket science.

[airjordanair]

yeah good point.. whens #24 gonna get some floor time.. he'd clearly be pissed, and wouldnt be surprised if demands out of the team.. such a shame, talent oozes from that kid, he's ready to explode..

[molepharmer]

The key to the current rotations is that nearly everybody is having success against some of the worst defensive teams in the league. Let's wait and see how tight or logical the rotation gets when players start struggling to make a shot.

[bentheredengthat]

The key to the current rotations is that nearly everybody is having success against some of the worst defensive teams in the league. Let's wait and see how tight or logical the rotation gets when players start struggling to make a shot.

I disagree, but like you said, we'll see.

I think Boylan's rotation adjustments are key - and will really help this team gel for the rest of the season.

[waffle]

I also disagree. We played piss poor against some pretty bad teams earlier in the year also.

Many of us (including me) have been harping for years on Skiles' seemingly random rotations. As a player, I think they would drive me nuts.

* Guys need to be able to play together to develop familiarity
* Guys need consistent minutes to develop a rhythm
* Guys should have a feeling for when and under what circumstances they are likely to come in. Even the subs should feel that they have a role to fill.

I am really hoping that he is able to start working in the subs, that his first priority (understandably) was to get the vets playing better and feeling more comfortable. Once that is in place I hope his rotation expands a little.

EDIT: And that was my 5000th post. Somebody bake me a cake.

[tclg]

Congrat waffle. I think the new rotation is the key people were probably tired of being jerked around. Maybe that was one of the players concerns about skiles

[Grand Champ]

Skiles was doing the rotations like an exhibition game in college, one mistake and YOINK, you're done for the rest of the game, unless you're a senior and can continue to play crappy all you want.

[molepharmer]

I also disagree. We played piss poor against some pretty bad teams earlier in the year also....EDIT: And that was my 5000th post. Somebody bake me a cake.

Congrats on 5000.

Bulls have never played this long of a stretch of terrible defensive teams. In the 4 games Boylan has had his rotations, 3 of the teams were in the bottom 6 defensively. Portland is 7th worse defense. So after todays' game it'll be 4 of the 7 worse defensive teams in 5 Boylan games.

These teams aren't even average defensively, they're the bottom of the barrel.

[Rerisen]

Skiles was doing the rotations like an exhibition game in college, one mistake and YOINK, you're done for the rest of the game, unless you're a senior and can continue to play crappy all you want.

John Bach on Chicago Tribune Live had the same criticism of Skiles after he got fired. He said other coaches would leave players out there for much longer stretches (like Boylan appears to be doing) and that Skiles he thought never gave some players a long enough chance out there to get comfortable.

Unlike say Phil Jackson who let his teams play through things, Skiles would get a timeout and go after one player for one little specific mistake. Bach said you cannot correct every single mistake as it happens in game, but need to leave that kind of stuff for practice, instead of jerking players constantly in and out as a corrective tool (hello Tyrus Thomas).

[Grand Champ]

-= original quote snipped =-



John Bach on Chicago Tribune Live had the same criticism of Skiles after he got fired. He said other coaches would leave players out there for much longer stretches (like Boylan appears to be doing) and that Skiles he thought never gave some players a long enough chance out there to get comfortable.

Unlike say Phil Jackson who let his teams play through things, Skiles would get a timeout and go after one player for one little specific mistake. Bach said you cannot correct every single mistake as it happens in game, but need to leave that kind of stuff for practice, instead of jerking players constantly in and out as a corrective tool (hello Tyrus Thomas).

Exactly, because when you're worried about getting yanked after one mistake that happens all the time in basketball, you play tight and try to think too much instead of just playing the game naturally. HUGE flaw in Skiles' coaching, and it is probably a reason that he's gone.

[cark]

- Leaves Gordon on the floor for loooong stretches, which usually lets him get through cold spells.

Yes. And it's funny that Boylan himself -- along with commentators and columnists -- doesn't fully understand the causation/correlation of Gordon's recent success.

Here's the conventional wisdom. Gordon comes off the bench. Gordon's offense improves. Therefore, coming off the bench improves Gordon's offense.

The truth probably has more to do with Gordon having free rein now when he is in the game. He doesn't have to worry about getting yanked, so he plays less conservatively, and therefore, better. (It also doesn't hurt that the matchups and pace have been good for him.)

I think Gordon could be just as successful if his role and the expectations on him were the same when he starts as when he comes in off the bench. There's a double standard that's always applied to Gordon more than any other rotation guy on the team -- under both Boylan and Skiles.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-


Yes. And it's funny that Boylan himself -- along with commentators and columnists -- doesn't fully understand the causation/correlation of Gordon's recent success.

Here's the conventional wisdom. Gordon comes off the bench. Gordon's offense improves. Therefore, coming off the bench improves Gordon's offense.

The truth probably has more to do with Gordon having free rein now when he is in the game. He doesn't have to worry about getting yanked, so he plays less conservatively, and therefore, better. (It also doesn't hurt that the matchups and pace have been good for him.)

I think Gordon could be just as successful if his role and the expectations on him were the same when he starts as when he comes in off the bench. There's a double standard that's always applied to Gordon more than any other rotation guy on the team -- under both Boylan and Skiles.

It's so easy to see why. Gordon comes in looking to score, coming off picks but basically gunning which is his strength, during the "starting" time he looked to keep everyone in the flow of the offense and didn't shoot nearly at the same rate as he is now(I mean per touch not per minute). Now when he gets back into the starting rotation like in the past he continues to just shoot which keeps him in the flow of the game which gets him success.

Gordon can't be a PG, he's going to be a scorer till he dies and his coaches need to use him like that, just like Reggie Miller, nothing but pure scoring from everywhere. When he isn't just gunning, he loses focus and his shots stop dropping.

Just treat him like the cheap whore he is... use and abuse him as a scorer then put him away till you want to do the same thing to him again. He's not a complete player but he can be an impact player if used as purely a scorer and nothing else.

[AirP.]

BTW... these rotations are great but let's not forget, Wallace isn't the youngest of guys and overall this team could be worn out by the playoffs, something Detroit has learned and are trying to get their bench more time in the last year or so.

Unless you guys honestly think we can win a championship with who we're going with currently, we're not doing the right thing for the longterm success of this team.