Can T2 and Noah Co-exist Offensively?

[Chi town]

We all know Tyrus and Noah are much better than Wallace offensively but they also aren't anywhere near Joe Smith's skills either.

Tyrus plays real well next to Gray who is a good offensive threat.

Tyrus' play with Wallace was a mixed bag because of how bad Deng, Hinrich, and Gordon were playing which put even more pressure on him.

Noah has shown some decent post moves, good ball handling, and attacking the rim offensively. He also makes his free throws.

As they both continue to progress could they eventually be the future frontcourt at PF and C with Gray being the third member of the three headed monster???

I think YES. I believe both have already improved quite a bit since last year and will both become solid/good offensive players that make their living at the foul line, in transition, and hitting open jumpers.

[The ROY]

I think they can..

If TT can remain consistent from 16 feet, that can be his zone while catching lobs & drawing fouls.

Noah's more of a clean-up scorer offensively.

IMO, Gray is definintely a back-up player but should be a very good one.

We also shouldn't worry about TT/Boylan right now, I'm sure they've talked and I'm also sure TT will have a big role here in the next up-coming weeks.

We just need to get back on track, that's all. I bet when we get to .500, u'll see much more of the kids.

[dougthonus]

I don't think Noah + Tyrus are an ideal pairing at the 4 and 5 together unless Tyrus continues to develop his jumper. It's tough to play 2 guys together at the 4/5 when neither of them can hit a jumper, and I love Noah, but I'd be shocked if he ever developed a jump shot. Tyrus actually has a chance at it because his form is at least somewhat normal, and he's shown quite a bit of improvement this year.

Even so, they're both pretty thin, and I'm not sure either would really bulk up. In today's NBA that might not be a big problem though.

Noah would have the ability to really hit Tyrus on basket cuts when he's in the post though, so you'd have that advantage. I don't think it's the ideal pairing, but I don't think it's a bad pairing. While we have Joe Smith here, I'd love to see our primary rotation be one of Noah or Tyrus starting with Joe Smith, and then using Tyrus and Gray off the bench.

[DuckIII]

As they both continue to progress could they eventually be the future frontcourt at PF and C with Gray being the third member of the three headed monster???

Yes. And I hope the team will have the patience to let that happen down the road. I think they'll also need a 4th player in that rotation who brings a similar style of play as Joe Smith - a 4 who can hit the 15 foot J.

[AirP.]

With Noah and Tyrus, there will have to be motion in the offense to take advantage of their athletic ability. Both will get stronger, their bodies will mature some, how much we don't know but they definitely will get stronger.

This won't be your momma's frontcourt, the strong down low players taht you drop the ball to and everyone sit around till the shot goes up. Then bring Gray in when the matchup is clearly in our favor or if we need to slow down the pace to rest some.

I love the future of Deng, Thomas, Noah at the 3-5 with Gray being rotated in, the only problem is can we wait for that day or are we going to give up a bright future for help in the short term, I sure hope we can wait... we waited on the other guys, but then again we gave minutes to the other guys early, you'd think we'd follow the same road of success in development.

[dougthonus]

With Noah and Tyrus, there will have to be motion in the offense to take advantage of their athletic ability.

I agree completely, great point.

[TB#1]

I think Noah will be able to hit a jump shot. I watched him for two years at Florida and he knocked down plenty for a big guy, ugly form and all. He struggled with his shot in the 2nd Championship tourny, but we now know it might have had to do with nursing the shoulder.

I think his form needs restructuring to succeed at the pro level, but he has the eye and the touch to shoot, so I think with work he can get it down.

Maybe he needs that Better Basketball Video with "perhaps the greatest shooter of all time" J.J. Reddick.

[Dieselbound&Down]

I'm afraid this is pointless to discuss because it will never get the chance to happen. With a little more polish and experience, I could envision it being a solid rotation but who knows.

[suckfish]

I think Noah will be able to hit a jump shot. I watched him for two years at Florida and he knocked down plenty for a big guy, ugly form and all. He struggled with his shot in the 2nd Championship tourny, but we now know it might have had to do with nursing the shoulder.

I think his form needs restructuring to succeed at the pro level, but he has the eye and the touch to shoot, so I think with work he can get it down.

Maybe he needs that Better Basketball Video with "perhaps the greatest shooter of all time" J.J. Reddick.

With some work and alteration I think he would be much improved. Really though it's a waste of Joakim's time, no NBA team is going to want him to be shooting jumpshots. Regardless of how much he improves it will never get to the stage where he is going to be a good shooter IMO. Sure he can make his form look better and he can get more comfortable with the shot but he isn't going to be knocking jumpers down consistently.

Joakim has so many other skills that he needs to work on, putting a good amount of time into a skill he is never going to be good at isn't a good idea, use that time to practice jumphooks and other around the basket moves.

Ty's jumpshot was bad, still it looked far better than Joakim's. Ty spent all summer working on it and the results show, still it isn't at the stage where it could be considered close to good really.

Think how many hours a day for years it would take Joakim to become just a good shooter.

Developing a jumpshot is the last thing on Noah's 'to do' list.

[dougthonus]

I think Noah will be able to hit a jump shot. I watched him for two years at Florida and he knocked down plenty for a big guy, ugly form and all. He struggled with his shot in the 2nd Championship tourny, but we now know it might have had to do with nursing the shoulder.

I think his form needs restructuring to succeed at the pro level, but he has the eye and the touch to shoot, so I think with work he can get it down.

Maybe he needs that Better Basketball Video with "perhaps the greatest shooter of all time" J.J. Reddick.

I don't think Noah will ever be a good shooter. The main problem is his current push shot form would get the hell blocked out of it in the NBA except when he's completely wide open.

It's also not a form that lends itself to consistency.

For him to change form would take a very significant amount of time. Time that would be better served working on interior moves and the weight room, and even then, at this age, it would be tough to break all those habits.

I wouldn't be shocked if he was able to learn how to hit wide open 12-15 footers (where there isn't the threat of getting blocked from his low delivery).

[AirP.]

I think Noah will be able to hit a jump shot. I watched him for two years at Florida and he knocked down plenty for a big guy, ugly form and all. He struggled with his shot in the 2nd Championship tourny, but we now know it might have had to do with nursing the shoulder.

I think his form needs restructuring to succeed at the pro level, but he has the eye and the touch to shoot, so I think with work he can get it down.

Maybe he needs that Better Basketball Video with "perhaps the greatest shooter of all time" J.J. Reddick.

I don't think Noah will ever be a good shooter. The main problem is his current push shot form would get the hell blocked out of it in the NBA except when he's completely wide open.

It's also not a form that lends itself to consistency.

For him to change form would take a very significant amount of time. Time that would be better served working on interior moves and the weight room, and even then, at this age, it would be tough to break all those habits.

I wouldn't be shocked if he was able to learn how to hit wide open 12-15 footers (where there isn't the threat of getting blocked from his low delivery).

He'll be able to hit open shots, but if he's not open, why have him shoot? He's got athletic ability and is a great passer, I'd rather see him use those then shoot unless he's wide open.

Take a look at Nazi last night, he hit his shots when he was wide open, but do you think anyone wants a big taking a somewhat contested jumper(well other then Skiles)? I want my bigs in rebounding position, especially Tyrus and Noah who seem to really be good at getting some putbacks in.

BUT... we need a playmaker at either PG or SG to better utilize Noah, Tyrus and Deng instead of basically ignoring their athletic ability.

[AirP.]

To be truly honest... I visioned this team becoming a very uptempo team that would press much more then it ever has. We have very mobile bigs in Wallace, Noah, Tyrus and Deng but our problems come from our small backcourt who really can't press very well. I would LOVE to see 48* minutes of hell, make teams eat up nearly half their shot clock before even thinking about starting their offense.

And if you think about it... doing something like that might give you a solid chance at beating the Celtics who's weakest part could be it's PG.

[dougthonus]

He'll be able to hit open shots, but if he's not open, why have him shoot? He's got athletic ability and is a great passer, I'd rather see him use those then shoot unless he's wide open.

I agree, but if he's not a threat to shoot it allows people to collapse really easily. Having solid shooting ability is useful beyond just shooting jumpers over guys. It keeps guys honest.

For Tyrus and Noah to be effective together at least one of them needs to be able to keep the defense honest.

[Chi town]

I WOULD NOT TRADE NOAH OR T2....

Because even if we got Gasol I don't think we win a title until we get a bigger SG that keeps Gordon coming off the bench.

I also see Noah and T2 developing much like Chandler and West. Chandler is putting up 12 and 12 and West is putting up 20 and 10. Interestingly enough, it took both of those players three years in the leauge to really make an impact and now in their 5th and 6th years they are really blossoming. BIG MEN TAKE TIME. Although IMO Noah is really only consistent minutes away from being a solid 10 and 8 player and evenutally a 13 and 11 player whereas T2 is probably a year away with consistent minutes from making CONSISTENT BIG IMPACT, and I see him eventually being a 17/10/2.5/3/2 type of player.

You could argue that NO will never win it all either but they also don't have Deng or Gordon. Although Paul is better than Hinrich, Gordon, or Deng.

Trade Duhon and Noc for Salmons and the Bulls would be great!!! Then draft DJ Augustine as that push the tempo type of PG that can score off the bench and penetrate.
Noah and Thomas need to play with a PG that can CREATE!!!

[AirP.]

He'll be able to hit open shots, but if he's not open, why have him shoot? He's got athletic ability and is a great passer, I'd rather see him use those then shoot unless he's wide open.

I agree, but if he's not a threat to shoot it allows people to collapse really easily. Having solid shooting ability is useful beyond just shooting jumpers over guys. It keeps guys honest.

For Tyrus and Noah to be effective together at least one of them needs to be able to keep the defense honest.

He can hit open jumpers and what you've said is he'll get blocked because of his shot... but if they collapse off him... no blockly! He'll be fine hitting the jumpers he needs to hit although they'll be ugly looking shots.

And.. if nothing else, playing off Noah will give him more room to pass the ball and that's a good thing for him!

[humblebum]

To be truly honest... I visioned this team becoming a very uptempo team that would press much more then it ever has. We have very mobile bigs in Wallace, Noah, Tyrus and Deng but our problems come from our small backcourt who really can't press very well. I would LOVE to see 48* minutes of hell, make teams eat up nearly half their shot clock before even thinking about starting their offense.

And if you think about it... doing something like that might give you a solid chance at beating the Celtics who's weakest part could be it's PG.

Rondo's a better PG than Hinrich, who's more of a combo guard... so I hope your talking about backup PG where I'll concede that the C's aren't particularly strong.

Rondo is more creative off the dribble, he's a better finisher at the rim, he's quicker, faster, and more agile, he's the less consistent and versatile defender but he's respectable there, and his shooting is much, much worse than Kirk's but he's greatly improved in this area of the game as well.

And House and Tony Allen are certainly "pressable" but I don't think the Bulls have any Lindsey Hunter's on their roster... The Pistons present quite unique challenges in regards to applying full-court pressure and the half court trap... things I don't really see Chicago excelling at to any great lengths.

[Ben]

He'll be able to hit open shots, but if he's not open, why have him shoot? He's got athletic ability and is a great passer, I'd rather see him use those then shoot unless he's wide open.

I agree, but if he's not a threat to shoot it allows people to collapse really easily. Having solid shooting ability is useful beyond just shooting jumpers over guys. It keeps guys honest.

For Tyrus and Noah to be effective together at least one of them needs to be able to keep the defense honest.

Absolutely right. My hope is that Tyrus will continue to work on the jumper, continue to shoot hundreds per day in the offseason (and hopefully during the year, too) so that he can shoot 40% on them reliably. Right now he's shooting about that on his jumpers but I still hold my breath every time he lets loose. If he can get it down more fully it'll open up tons of possibilities. I really, really want to see him and Noah together on the floor more so they figure out where they stand now, but I'm almost certain that it's not going to happen any time soon.

[Leslie Forman]

Honestly, the only way I see Noah/Tyrus being a championship frontcourt is if this team had a Kidd/Carter/Jefferson-level offensive backcourt. I don't see that happening.

Unless one of them magically develops into a consistent go-to scorer, this team is going to need either a really kickass backcourt scorer (like you-know-who), or a big who can score, and a Joe Smith or Aaron Gray isn't gonna cut it.

Paxson seems to agree with this, judging by his past trade targets.

[SimonFish]

No

ONLY atheleticsm can't win you the champ