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Jim Boylan on 670 The Score

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Post#41 » by TB#1 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:55 pm

coldfish wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Noah is leading all rookies in PER and also is leading the Bulls in that stat. He has been consistent every time he has played and fills at least one need with size in the frontcourt. Despite that, he has played 299 minutes in 30 games.


Noah is playing an average of 12.5 minutes per game and has a bunch of games where he's played 20+ which is not bad for a rookie #9 pick. Wright was drafted immediately before him and Hawes immediately after and both are seeing considerably less PT.

I am all for a continued upward trend in Noah's minutes -- but there is little room to complain about bringing a rook along at the pace so far.

Also factor in that he started off the season with the lingering effects of an injury.
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Post#42 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:57 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Talk with Tyrus lately have we?


You don't need to talk to him. Watch him play. He does not make good decisions, he still plays too wild, and has no feel for the game what so ever.

And that's one reason why Noah is better than Tyrus right now and in college. Noah realizes that you can't play the game with 48 minutes of energy. Nobody can, and you never will. Noah plays with his energy when it's needed, and it shows in his play. Tyrus isn't smart enough to split his energy into the needed times. If he was, he'd be getting alot more playing time, and would be a much much better player.

Tyrus's problem is in his head, and you can't blame Skiles for not keeping him in the lineup. He just didn't get it at all. Yes he had a couple of good games, but he still looked lost for the most part, and can't figure out what the hell he's supposed to do. He's still as raw as ever. Noah knows what he's supposed to do role-wise, but he just doesn't know the plays yet, which granted I can understand. Noah's NBA-Ready, it's just a matter of him getting adjusted. Tyrus isn't NBA-Ready, and it's a matter of him understanding the overall game of basketball, and knowing what his role really is.

Until Tyrus starts to get it he won't be much of a player.
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Post#43 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:10 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You don't need to talk to him. Watch him play. He does not make good decisions, he still plays too wild, and has no feel for the game what so ever.



Wow, coming from a guy fan of a player who routinely is wild but since he's a great shooter when he's on all is forgiven. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

By the way, could you tell Gordon maybe he may want to wait a little longer on the end of quarter plays so the other team can't get a rebound and go the other way, it seems like it would be a good decision to do that.
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Post#44 » by Wingy » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:11 pm

I am going to have to believe that Boylan is a smart man and that he's seen where Skiles-like rigidity gets you.

I need more TT like Walken needs cowbell, but I have this feeling that this is only temporary and we need to use some patience. It's maddeningly tough. I don't know why, but I feel very confident that once the ship is righted (ie - we're back in playoff position), we'll start to see Tyrus in the rotation and helping us win again.
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Post#45 » by #1TKfan » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:16 pm

boylan is about to come on espn radio 1000 if youre interested.
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Post#46 » by sonny » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:22 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:You can't develop raw players and expect to be a great team at the same time, unless you have a superstar player on your team.


Were we a great team when Tyrus was playing 18mpg last year and we went 20-8?

Are we going to be a great team with Tyrus on the bench.
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Post#47 » by The300thSpartan » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:22 pm

jack finn wrote:Ok, I've re-made up my mind. Having your blood boil over owners coaches and GM's who neglect long term vision and who are sorta fine with players going through insanely long slumps of sucktitude, will only, well, boil your blood. And that's not as much fun as not having your blood boil.

So, especially after thinking of past 9 years, the little I cared about winning now doesn't exist at all. It's all about the funzies. Play whomever the sh** ya effing feel like. Bench Deng, play Anthony goddamn Mason. Trade Noah for a delicious ice cream sandwich. Just show me something fun, like Wallace breaking his tailbone after airballing a dunk, or Hinrich accidentally spitting his moutpiece on a 3 month old baby in reaction to an hilarious Aaron Gray joke.

.



It's too bad that the player that can bring some excitement/fun in these games is the one that is least likely to play. :nonono:

We need a grassroots movement to show that most fans are dangerously and maniacally livid (or something hyperbolic like that) with the myopic vision of the coaching/player management of this team. Maybe one of our web saavy posters can start a "playtyrus.com" Web site. Or perhaps print out 10,000 flyers that say "Play Tyrus" and hand them outside the United Center prior to the games. Just something to show that we're sick of the status quo.

Oh yeah, and FU Paxson for getting my hopes up after the Skiles firing.
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Post#48 » by kulaz3000 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:24 pm

#1TKfan wrote:boylan is about to come on espn radio 1000 if youre interested.


He is on now.
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Post#49 » by sco » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:25 pm

I think that there are two approaches to developing young players, and their application is tied to a teams' situation:

If you are a contender (which I don't think Pax has given up on yet - because I'm sure his boss had that expectation going into the season) you give young guys minutes based on whether they are playing better than the guy ahead of them or during blow-outs.

If you out of the play-off hunt, then you can afford to give non-merit-based minutes to young guys. Even here, you don't want your vets creating too much locker room noise if they are not getting their minutes or you create new problems. I think that Boylan is very mindful of this last point when it comes to Wallace, who seems to be the thinnest skinned of the vets (although personally, I just don't get why he is on the floor for most of the 4th quarter).
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Post#50 » by BULLHITTER » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:27 pm

Tyrus's problem is in his head, and you can't blame Skiles for not keeping him in the lineup. He just didn't get it at all. Yes he had a couple of good games, but he still looked lost for the most part, and can't figure out what the hell he's supposed to do. He's still as raw as ever. Noah knows what he's supposed to do role-wise, but he just doesn't know the plays yet, which granted I can understand. Noah's NBA-Ready, it's just a matter of him getting adjusted. Tyrus isn't NBA-Ready, and it's a matter of him understanding the overall game of basketball, and knowing what his role really is.

Until Tyrus starts to get it he won't be much of a player.


sorry, but that's just not correct.....there aren't two players that routinely develop by the same method, and as such expecting thomas to respond to the same method as noah (or anybody else on the bench) is an exercise in futility. further, isn't thomas a kid who was a guard in HS (not even playing a full four years), experienced a growth spurt, of what 5-6 inches, yet and still was recruited by a major university, sat out a large portion of the season, YET AND STILL was a MAJOR contributor on a FINAL FOUR basketball team; so much so that even after that whirlwind of progress was projected as a top 3-5 pick for the nba.....

however there's some here that believe he has no Bball IQ, poor work ethic, etc., etc. all that nonsense sounds like people who don't want to see the kid succeed. thomas appears to be a kid who catches on VERY quickly, as evidenced by his ability to impact games WHENEVER the bulls coaches put him in. mistakes he'll make, but this manchild just might be what is considered a "prodigy" in other circles.

yet, some of these basketball "experts" herein, would like to apply all the "tried and true" analogies to label the boy when all evidence of his play points otherwise..... :noway:


i could be wrong......but i doubt it.
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Post#51 » by #1TKfan » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:29 pm

kulaz3000 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He is on now.


well they asked him about tyrus.

boylan pretty much just said there arent enough min. to go around.

we need to trade noc or wallace or both for that matter. i need some more tyrus in my life.
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Post#52 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:30 pm

sonny wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Were we a great team when Tyrus was playing 18mpg last year and we went 20-8?

Are we going to be a great team with Tyrus on the bench.


Tyrus wasn't solely the reason for it. Anybody who acts like it is fooling themselves. The hole that this team dug itself out of last season wasn't as big as this one, and was pretty easy to dig out of as well. Weaker eastern conference, easier schedule, more home games, etc.

AirP. wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Wow, coming from a guy fan of a player who routinely is wild but since he's a great shooter when he's on all is forgiven. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

By the way, could you tell Gordon maybe he may want to wait a little longer on the end of quarter plays so the other team can't get a rebound and go the other way, it seems like it would be a good decision to do that.


Are you honestly comparing Ben Gordon's situation to Tyrus Thomas? Stop. :nonono:

Gordon was an NBA-Ready player when he was drafted, and had a good college career. Tyrus was the complete opposite. Gordon might not be a stud defensively, but he does know the game of basketball as a whole. Tyrus is brain-dead when it comes to basketball, he's just a good athlete.
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Post#53 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:30 pm

Boylan just addressed the Tyrus thing on ESPN 1000...

He said he's told them he's tightening up the rotation, and he can usually get one of the 3 sometimes 2 of the 3 in a game of (Gray, Noah, Tyrus) and he goes by who he feels has the best matchup for that game to pick who plays.
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Post#54 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:32 pm

He addressed BG's defense also on ESPN 1000... that they give him leway on the defensive end because of his offense ability and we have players who cover for him on the defensive end.

He did say that believe it or not he's a better defender now then he first came into the league.
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Post#55 » by Cliff Levingston » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:33 pm

sco wrote:If you are a contender (which I don't think Pax has given up on yet - because I'm sure his boss had that expectation going into the season) you give young guys minutes based on whether they are playing better than the guy ahead of them or during blow-outs.

Not the Bulls. Noah is outplaying every other big man yet still gets inconsistent, low amounts of minutes.


sco wrote:If you out of the play-off hunt, then you can afford to give non-merit-based minutes to young guys. Even here, you don't want your vets creating too much locker room noise if they are not getting their minutes or you create new problems. I think that Boylan is very mindful of this last point when it comes to Wallace, who seems to be the thinnest skinned of the vets (although personally, I just don't get why he is on the floor for most of the 4th quarter).

The team should be looking at championship hunt, not playoff hunt. Anyone who thought the Bulls were going to win the championship with Nocioni, Smith and Wallace playing major roles in the front court is crazy. Therefore, you might as well develop the recent lottery picks you've got who have a better chance of helping you get there, provided they develop the way you hope they can.

This is precisely the reason why Cliff Levingston wanted one of Nocioni or Smith, not both.
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Post#56 » by #1TKfan » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:34 pm

asked about jamesON.

looks like we wont be seeing him anytime soon.

LOL. harry goes "you see thabo shoot, coach"!
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Post#57 » by Cliff Levingston » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:36 pm

AirP. wrote:He did say that believe it or not he's a better defender now then he first came into the league.

He's a far better defender than he was when he entered the league (credit to Skiles for helping on that one). Ben's rarely lost when defending off the ball now, whereas he was completely lost in his first season.
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Post#58 » by sonny » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:38 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Tyrus wasn't solely the reason for it. Anybody who acts like it is fooling themselves. The hole that this team dug itself out of last season wasn't as big as this one, and was pretty easy to dig out of as well. Weaker eastern conference, easier schedule, more home games, etc.


Of course he wasn't the sole reason for our play, but he played very well and helped us win. Winning and playing young guys wasn't mutually exclusive then. Why is it now?
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Post#59 » by BULLHITTER » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:41 pm

Tyrus is brain-dead when it comes to basketball,


that's funny man.......but eerily similar to the abovementioned posts........
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Post#60 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:42 pm

sonny wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Of course he wasn't the sole reason for our play, but he played very well and helped us win. Winning and playing young guys wasn't mutually exclusive then. Why is it now?


Because everyone now wants Tyrus/Noah or Tyrus/Gray to play 28+ minutes each a game, and giving Ben Wallace and Joe Smith 20 minutes.

And it's not going to happen, and the team is not going to win at all, which is what Pax supposedly still wants to do.

Wallace was playing 30+ minutes pre-allstar and post-all star break last year. The vets were getting heavy minutes. And they were getting wins. If you play a raw player like Tyrus 30+ you are going to lose games. If you play Thabo 30+ you are going to lose games. If you play Gray 30+ you are going to lose games.

We are not a rebuilding team, this team still wants to make playoffs. If you want to make playoffs, you are going to trust experience over raw. Once you get out of mediocrity, then you can begin spreading minutes more.

But you are not going to win games, by playing raw players 30+ minutes, unless you have a superstar.

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