Okay, six games later... Is Big Ben rejuvinated?

bullzman23 · Post #1 » by **bullzman23** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:37 am

Clutch free-throws, blocks, rebounds, brilliant stretches, and more importantly 4 wins.

Is he back?

11.2 rpg, 2.33 apg, 2.5 bpg, 1.7 spg, 5.3 ppg

whonka · Post #2 » by **whonka** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:39 am

yes, he's got back

Sebastian · Post #3 » by **Sebastian** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:41 am

As glaringly average as those numbers are, I don't even think he's playing as well as they might indicate. If Noah and Gray took away all of Ben's minutes their numbers would far eclipse his. We are worse with him on the floor; part of that is his fault, the other part is the fact that we don't have the talent at the other four positions to make up for his deficiencies (the way Detroit did).

bullzman23 · Post #4 » by **bullzman23** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:43 am

Sebastian wrote:As glaringly average as those numbers are, I don't even think he's playing as well as they might indicate. If Noah and Gray took away all of Ben's minutes their numbers would far eclipse his. We are worse with him on the floor; part of that is his fault, the other part is the fact that we don't have the talent at the other four positions to make up for his deficiencies (the way Detroit did).

Outside of points, how are those average numbers for a big?

Bulls_Dynasty6 · Post #5 » by **Bulls_Dynasty6** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:43 am

Sebastian wrote:As glaringly average as those numbers are, I don't even think he's playing as well as they might indicate. If Noah and Gray took away all of Ben's minutes their numbers would far eclipse his. We are worse with him on the floor; part of that is his fault, the other part is the fact that we don't have the talent at the other four positions to make up for his deficiencies (the way Detroit did).

Quoted for the effing truth.

newskoolbulls · Post #6 » by **newskoolbulls** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:45 am

Forget the stats for the 2nd. He looked miserable with Skiles coaching recently as did the team. BW looks happy, like he has finally found a coach he enjoys. The team looks happier and its not just Joakim jumping around, now its everyone. There is more laughing and team chemisty.

Red Larrivee · Post #7 » by **Red Larrivee** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:46 am

Big Ben does look noticably comfortable on the court now and has done alot of things I haven't seen him do with Skiles here. I think Big Ben is at his best when you just let him be Big Ben.

bullzman23 · Post #8 » by **bullzman23** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:47 am

newskoolbulls wrote:Forget the stats for the 2nd. He looked miserable with Skiles coaching recently as did the team. BW looks happy, like he has finally found a coach he enjoys. The team looks happier and its not just Joakim jumping around, now its everyone. There is more laughing and team chemisty.

Great post.

I don't agree with those who are saying that we've been worse with him on the floor. That certainly was true while Skiles was still here, but I couldn't disagree more with that statement during this six game stretch. He's been a big part of forcing the OT's and helping us win.

fudgie · Post #9 » by **fudgie** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:53 am

Might I just add that Wallace's man has routinely been going off on us lately, especially worrying are the big rebounding games guys have against him.

Brad Miller 22 and 13
LaMarcus Aldridge 14 and 13
Emeka Okafor 9 and 8
Dwight Howard 17 and 22
Zach Randolph 18 and 12 (Eddy Curry 12 and 8 in 21 min)
Andrew Bogut 15 and 11

Sebastian · Post #10 » by **Sebastian** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:57 am

While he certainly has played well at times during the last 6 games, he's also had some horrendous stretches, as usual. Keeping him in the game with Duhon and/or Griffin and/or Noc when he's been sucking gives us very little chance to run a productive offense. His defense isn't good enough anymore to make up for that.

theanimal23 · Post #11 » by **theanimal23** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:05 am

He isn't playing to a level that makes me happy, but he is playing significantly better and with more ooomph than he did earlier this season. I hope he can continue playing at this level at the least.

Bullsville · Post #12 » by **Bullsville** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:10 am

11.2 rpg, 2.33 apg, 2.5 bpg, 1.7 spg, 5.3 ppg

As glaringly average as those numbers are

A person would have a hard time finding a more ridiculous and inaccurate statement.

Average?

11.2 reb would be 7th in the NBA

2.5 blocks would be 6th in the NBA

1.7 steals would be tied for 11th in the NBA

2.33 assists would rank 8th among all NBA centers and forward/centers

How in the hell are those numbers "average", let alone "glaringly" average?

Average? :dontknow:

Post #13 » by **Rerisen** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:43 am

If this is rejuvenation I would hate to see lack of juvenation, or whatever that would be called...

As along as they keep letting him get away with stuff for being a DPOY though, he might be of some use.

Leslie Forman · Post #14 » by **Leslie Forman** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:44 am

Bullsville wrote:Average?

11.2 reb would be 7th in the NBA

2.5 blocks would be 6th in the NBA

1.7 steals would be tied for 11th in the NBA

2.33 assists would rank 8th among all NBA centers and forward/centers

How in the hell are those numbers "average", let alone "glaringly" average?

Average?

The non-offense #s are decent, but offensively he is still the worst starting center, hell, starter, period, in the entire league. He's shot 34% over that same span, fer crissakes. He's friggin 367th in FG%. He's 354th in FT%, and something like 25 guys behind him are only behind because they haven't taken any free throws at all.

He'd have to be the greatest rebounder/defender in the league to offset his horrendous offense. But he isn't, so he doesn't.

Post #15 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:54 am

tong po wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

The non-offense #s are decent, but offensively he is still the worst starting center, hell, starter, period, in the entire league. He's shot 34% over that same span, fer crissakes. He's friggin 367th in FG%. He's 354th in FT%, and something like 25 guys behind him are only behind because they haven't taken any free throws at all.

He'd have to be the greatest rebounder/defender in the league to offset his horrendous offense. But he isn't, so he doesn't.

Jason...friggin...Collins

ice9 · Post #16 » by **ice9** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:01 am

Bullsville wrote:11.2 rpg, 2.33 apg, 2.5 bpg, 1.7 spg, 5.3 ppg

As glaringly average as those numbers are

A person would have a hard time finding a more ridiculous and inaccurate statement.

Average?

11.2 reb would be 7th in the NBA

2.5 blocks would be 6th in the NBA

1.7 steals would be tied for 11th in the NBA

2.33 assists would rank 8th among all NBA centers and forward/centers

How in the hell are those numbers "average", let alone "glaringly" average?

Average?

39 mpg?

He still has been bad, but tons of time inflates his stats. He does give some effort now, though. And his man keeps destroying us cause he doesnt even pretend to guard some of the guys.

Leslie Forman · Post #17 » by **Leslie Forman** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 am

BrooklynBulls wrote:Jason...friggin...Collins

Collins doesn't start anymore.

Post #18 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:05 am

I really can't believe some people are still complaining about Wallace. Which part of THIS, energetic, giving-a-damn Wallace, didn't we know about? That he'd decline slightly? We knew that. That he was the worst offensive bigman in the league garnering his minutes? We knew that. For the past 6 games, Wallace has been playing AS ADVERTISED. You can't ask any more from him. If you have a problem with his minutes, complain about the coaching, not Wallace. He won the game tonight.

Post #19 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:07 am

tong po wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Collins doesn't start anymore.

Whoops. Haven't caught a Nets game in 2 weeks or so, and this is what it gets me.

Post #20 » by **dougthonus** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:10 am

Ben Wallace is playing markedly better under Boylan than Skiles. That's a good thing.

I still don't think he's playing that well as he his man defense has been poor, and our coaching staff still uses him in this horribly stupid way on offense by having him set high screens.

However, he's definitely playing much better than he was, and even if that's not as well as I'd like, I'm happy for the improvement.