RealGM

Ranked top to bottom, whom I WANT to be here this year. I take into account the following:

- Their attitude
- Their trade value (if it's high, I might rank them lower)
- How critical their development is to the team
- Their contract/where they are in their contract
- oh yeah, are they any good and do they fill a position of need

My list:

1. Deng - I do think he has the ability to be a top 20 player. But he is a complimentary player, not a take charge kind of guy. He suffers due to the makeup of this team. Next year I think it will come down to Deng or Bitsy Ben, not both...
2. Noah - He will end up being a 5. He is a rook, so he's cheap. He plays hard. He's (mostly) smart. He's a winner. I believe in the BIGS>SMALLS and thus believe Noah's worth is inflated somewhat
3. Gray - I fully expect him to become a serviceable backup 5. He's a rook and a 2nd rounder, so he's cap friendly
4. Kirk - is on a decent, front loaded contract. Like Deng, is a complimentary player.. needs someone playing next to him to succeed. Plays D. Hard nosed. Seems to care.
5. TT - I put him this high SOLELY on potential and the assumption that we may have less depth soon in order to get him minutes. Plus he's still on his rook contract.
6. Chapu - Decent contract, plays with fire. Can do a little of everything and is practically the perfect 6th man. What happened to his D???
7. Thabo - Like TT, high potential ROI. I want to see him get 25 minutes a game before I write him off.
8. Joe Smith - what's not to like? Not a long term solution, but shouldn't there be one pro's PRO on this team? A vet who doesn't WHINE?
9. Du - He is what he is. A decent backup PG who has holes big enough to drive a boat through.
10. - Itsy Ben. I have never been a fan, at least I have been consistent there. The backcourt of kirk and ben is a non-starter. He doesn't play SG D, he doesn't have the handles for a PG. I have always thought that he will price himself out of Chicago... TBD. I see him as our most tradeable asset.
11. - Big Ben. I wanted to sign him. I was probably the loudest proponent on this board. I suggested him as a target a year before he became a RFA. Um.... ooops? Addition by subtraction at this point. Give the kids some minutes.

12. everybody else. Jameson. VK. Griff. Nichols...

1.Nocioni
2. Gordon
3. Deng
4. Joe Smith

I really do not care about the rest of the Team

1. Ben Gordon
2. Luol Deng
3. Andres Nocioni
4. Joe Smith
5. Joakim Noah
---
6. Aaron Gray
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. Chris Duhon
9. Tyrus Thomas
10. Ben Wallace
11. JamesOn Curry
12. Demetrius Nichols
13. Adrian Griffin
14. Thabo Sefolosha
15. Viktor Khryapa

Deng
Noah
TT
Gordon
Hinrich- he's last because he's an awful clutch player, and thats where games are won
Nocioni- the bad sort of tweener
Gray- super cheap
Thabo- Showing some flashes
Smith- He's been good here, but is always going to be a 23 minute roleplayer.
Duhon- expiring, no restricted rights, and does not fit on this team.
Le Scrubs
Wallace- no one wants him, including us

Honestly, I think with guys like Hinrich and Gordon we've seen their ceiling. Either would be serviceable playing next to a true SG - so I'm not sure if it is necessary to have both of them. Deng *was* improving, but just doesn't have a killer instinct to be a true top tier player. I would keep him for the right price, otherwise I would use him in a trade, along with Gordon or Hinrich. Guys like Tyrus, Noah, Thabo, Gray still deserve at least another year - under stable coaching - to see what they can do. Wallace has to go, he's really just a cancer and doesn't have the physical tools to dominate any more. He be a great accessory for a playoff team that just needs that extra role player, but he doesn't have enough energy to be THE man. Noc, despite shooting like an idiot, is still a great hustle player and a great influence.

So, my top 5 to keep would be:

1. Deng
2. Noc
3. Noah
4. Tyrus
5. Gordon

My top 5 to trade would be:

1. Wallace
2. Hinrich (too much of a tweener - too indecisive with the ball)
3. Joe Smith (just because his value is high right now, otherwise I'd keep him)
4. Gordon (if the right trade came along)
5. Tyrus

Yes, I have a couple guys on both lists, but that's how this team is. No one has really established themselves as untouchable.

Deng
Noah
Thomas

Gray
Thabo

Gordon
Hinrich
(These 2 guys are listed below Gray and Thabo only because I think its possible they could be centerpieces in a significant trade).
Smith

Nocioni
Duhon

Wallace

No one else really matters enough one way or another to warrant a ranking.

1. Deng
2. Tyrus
3. Noah
4. Gray
5. Thabo
6. Noc
7. Hinrich

Feel free to trade the rest, 'tho I wouldn't mind Smith staying for next year

I'm not going to make a list because my top 4 is identical to Ducks. I think it's worth noting the value of young C's. The center position is a dying bread, we have two pretty promising young C's on our roster right now, they are certainly worth keeping around.

The bottom two is pretty obvious to me, Wallace and Nocioni for reasons regularly stated on these boards.

Deng
Noah
Tyrus
Nocioni
Gordon
Sefolosha
Gray
Hinrich
Smith
Curry
Griffin
Duhon
Khryapa
Nichols
Wallace

Itsy Ben, unsurprisingly, has a massive standard deviation.

I had kirk that high simply because I think he would be better on a better team. I know that seems simplistic, but I think he a support guy.

who i want to be here......in order....

1. andres nocioni
2. joakim noah
3. luol deng
4. ben gordon
5. tyrus thomas
6. aaron gray
7. thabo sefolosha
8. joe smith
9. chris duhon
10. jameson curry
11. kirk hinrich
12. ben wallace
13. adrian griffin
14. viktor khryapa
15. demitirus nichols

Luol Deng
Ben Gordon
Tyrus Thomas
Joakim Noah
Aaron Gray
Thabo Sefolosha
Joe Smith
Andres Nocioni
Kirk Hinrich

Don't care about the rest.

waffle wrote:I had kirk that high simply because I think he would be better on a better team. I know that seems simplistic, but I think he a support guy.

The whole team are support guys! Even Deng. That's why I don't think it matters which ones are moved in a significant deal, as long as you could secure a true leader/star to build around or a potent big man, you trade who you have to to get that talent.

I could make a case for a specialist like Gordon who excels at one thing like shooting when open, to be kept because those type of players are usually more valuable as role players in building a championship team than all around average guys, but ultimately, it doesn't really matter who goes to me.

The lack of growth from 'the core' this year has exposed Paxson's entire plan of endlessly holding on to his cards to continue evaluating. He has took too much time to evaluate and now the whole leagues knows as much as we do, so that the team has no advantage in shipping off any of its players for more than they are worth.

Thomas
Gordon
Deng
Gray
Noah
Smith


The rest can go, honestly. Thabo is on the rise, but I'm going to leave him off for now.

In no particular order except who I want to keep, who's on the bubble, and who I want gone.

Keepers:

F Tyrus Thomas - His potential and impact when playing more than 20 minutes is what makes him a keeper. He has a lot to learn, but his upside is tremendous. He's going to become a full-time starting forward in thsi league. Might as well be with us.

C Joakim Noah - Like Thomas, he produces when given minutes. People say he's an offensive liability. How so? He's driving and dunking, laying it up over out-stretched defenders and finishing plays above the rim. I see no reason to why he couldn't be a 12-14 PPG scorer as a starting center.

F Luol Deng - He has been disappointing this year and seems to lack aggresiveness more than I anticipated. Nevertheless, he's a terrific defender and rebounder for a small forward. Add those 18 points a game, and what more can you ask for your 22 yr old starting 3?

G Ben Gordon - I can't explain his season. It hasn't been as productive as last year and he is certainly playing below his abilities. I have confidence that will change the more Noah & Thomas establish themselves. If we add a post-scorer and use Ben as a 2nd or 3rd option, he should become the most dangerous shooter in the NBA.

C Aaron Gray - Back-up center for the future. He can score and seems to have a nice understanding of when to make the interior pass. He also stays level-headed and plays within his limits. Experience will only make him better.

F Joe Smith - Insurance. He's been very consitant compared to the rest of the players this year. Very, very good signing. He spreads the defense with his mid-range jumper and plays much better defense than I expected. I would love for him to stay with the team after he retires one day to teach forwards the art of mid-range jumpshooting.

Bubble:

G Kirk Hinrich - When he has it going offensively, he's one of the best 2-way point guards in the league. But we simply need more consistency from our starting point guard. He's our quarterback, and unlike the Bears last off-season, I'm not satisfied with a Rex Grossman as our floor-leader. Step up or get traded.

G Chris Duhon - Almost the same as Kirk. With consistency and a better jumpshot, Duhon would jump from bubble to keepers. His slumps are becoming an anual ritual and getting tiresome. He's a nice player when it comes to hanging onto the ball, but he doesn't spark the offense as a point guard should.

F Andres Nocioni - He takes ill-advised shots, leaves shooters open in the corner and doesn't pass. Yet, he is extremely valuble to our team when he can find the bottom of the net. His contract is fairly long and large, which would prevent us from going after an inside presence.

G JamesOn Curry - I'm putting JamesOn here, since I have no idea of how he will fare in the NBA. For all I know, he could be the next Jannero Pargo as well as he could be D-League rotation player.

F Demetris Nichols - Like JamesOn, no one knows what he can do on the NBA hardwood.

G Thabo Sefolosha - Under Boylan, he has improved. This is why he's under bubble and not gone. His jumpshots was looking decent at Orlando, but we need that on a consistant basis or we will get murdered with the high amount of offensive liabilities. I would prefer to keep him for one more year and see what he can do. If he doesn't give us anything worth of value, trade or waive him.

Gone:

C Ben Wallace - Just too much money for too little impact. Ben was brought here to give us a ring. He has decided to screw us and run with $60M. In no way do I respect what he has done for us this season, nor do I expect him to change. Buy him out or trade him if possible. If all we get back is Kwame Brown & Radmanovic, so be it.

G Adrian Griffin - Nice veteran, seems to be good in the locker-room. But the man cannot play anymore. You're on an NBA roster to play basketball. If John likes Griffin and the way he handles himself, then hire him as a coach or advisor.

F Viktor Khryapa - I'd like to quote Eddie Murphy from 'Raw'.. "Eddddddiiiie, what have you done for me latelyyyy?" Vitkor can't get on the floor unless it's a blow-out. Not really his fault, but he's just not as good as originally thought. Trade him to the Jazz as an expiring contract so he and Kirilenko can drink Vodka and enjoy themselves.

1. Deng
2. Gordon
3. Nocioni
4. Noah
5. Gray
6. Tyrus
7. Sefolosha

Let's rebuild around this new core.

I'll start by saying no one on this roster is untouchable. These guys are all complimentary pieces with no true stars.

1. Deng - I think Luol is going to be easier to sign than BG (assuming neither gets a huge contract offer that the Bulls don't want to match). BG has talked about signing the 1-year tender and being an UFA, Luol has not. Luol is the youngest of the "established" players, and although it appears he'll never be the "main man" on a team, he makes a very nice 2nd or 3rd option.
2. Hinrich - I put Kirk here nstead of BG mainly because he's probably harder to trade because of his BYC status. Also, I put him here because -- at least at this point in both guys' careers -- he is better able than BG to play both backcourt positions, so would probably make an easier adjustment to playing alongside either a pure PG or a bigger SG. I think he'd also have an easier time adjusting to a supporting role if the Bulls got a real star to builad around, than would BG
3. Noah - I don't like the reports of his tardiness, inability to remember the plays and his general flaky attitude. But on the other hand, he hustles his rear end off when he plays and, if he matures, could one day be the outspoken leader the team needs.
4. Thomas - As with Noah, I'm less than thrilled with the reports of his attitude and inability to remember plays. But his upside is so good that I can put up with a little bit of attitude as long as it doesn't become divisive. I also hope that he will soon figure out that if he wants to play, he needs to learn the sets.
5. Smith - He's a calm veteran voice and has proven to be very productive. However, if he can be packaged in a trade for a "star", then bye-bye.
6. Sefolosha - I want to see more of Thabo on the court. He's got the size and defensive ability to be an important role player on a good team. He doesn't appear likely to ever be a big offensive threat, but if he can improve to the point where he could average say 8 PPG, he could still fill a nice nitch. I wouldn't rush to give him any kind of contract extension, and I wouldn't be very upset if he got packaged in a deal for someone like Gasol. But I think he deserves more PT to show whether he is a keeper.
7. Gordon - I put BG here because he wants a big contract (more than $50 mil/5 for sure; probably not as much as the $75 mil/5 that was rumored) and isn't happy being the Sixth Man. If the Bulls could trade him for a low post threat or a bigger SG who is more of a slasher, that might be best for both the team and for BG, especially if he goes to a team where he can start and be the team's 2nd option on offense
8. Nocioni - I'm a big fan of Noc's. He may be the hardest worker on the tam and I love his fiery attitude. I could do without the out of control play and the whiny to the refs, though. The latter has really seemed to work against him this year, as he doesn't get nearly as many calls when he flops as he has in the past. Despite his BYC status, he's probably easier to trade right now than Hinrich because he's making far less $$$. Also, I would think teams would be interested in a guy who can play both forward positions and provide hustle and scoring either off the bench or as a starter. I'd prefer to keep him, but I have a feeling he's likel to be moved in a deal for a "star" -- maybe not this season, but possibly in the summer.
9. Gray - I figure he's staying, at least for another year (I think the Bulls signed him to a 2-year deal). He has been productive offensively at times, although his lack of quickness kills him on defense. He'll never be anything more than a backup, but the Bulls need size and low post play, and he gives them some of that. He could be thrown into a trade, but if not, I see no reason why he wouldn't be back next season.



Others:

Wallace - Bye! Don't let the door hit you on our lazy arrogant butt as you leave!!
Duhon - He's gone after the season, since some other team will give him more $$$ than he'll get from the Bulls (I hope). They should try and move him before the trade dealine so they won't lose him for othing
Griffin - He should look to move into coaching
Khryapa - Bye!!
Nichols - ??? Probably gone, since they haven't even bothered to play him to see what he can do
Curry -- He got a 2-year deal, right? But he may not be back, because they haven't exactly rushed to throw him on the court

Gordon hasn't talked about signing the Qualifying Offer and being an Unrestricted Free Agent the year after. That article was speculation based on Gordon possibly wanting more money than Deng, and The Bulls possibly not giving it to him. Gordon never said any of it.

Either way, I think you gotta get rid of Kirk, and give Gordon and Deng the good deals to keep them around.

Red Larrivee wrote:Gordon hasn't talked about signing the Qualifying Offer and being an Unrestricted Free Agent the year after. That article was speculation based on Gordon possibly wanting more money than Deng, and The Bulls possibly not giving it to him. Gordon never said any of it.

Either way, I think you gotta get rid of Kirk, and give Gordon and Deng the good deals to keep them around.

Are you sure about that? I could swear I saw a quote from BG about possibly signing the 1-year tender...

EDIT: Here ya go. It's not a direct quote from BG. But K.C. Johnson reported this right after Boylan was made the interim coach and moved BG back to the bench...

The Chicago Tribune reports that Ben Gordon has told confidants that he might sign a one-year tender offer next summer and become an unrestricted free agent after the 2008-09 season.


I know you don't like Hinrich, but keeping him on a frontloaded contract makes more sense to me than overpaying Gordon. I have no problem keeping both guys and trying to bring in a big guard (either a PG or a SG) to use as a 3-man rotation (making Thabo the back-up SF), as until this year, the two of them worked perfectly well together.

Red Larrivee wrote:Gordon hasn't talked about signing the Qualifying Offer and being an Unrestricted Free Agent the year after. That article was speculation based on Gordon possibly wanting more money than Deng, and The Bulls possibly not giving it to him.

That isn't accurate, I don't think. It was specifically reported that Gordon's people dropped the QO card in negotiations in an effort to get some leverage.