RealGM

Since we are all Anti-Ben Wallace around here let's look forward to the day when he comes off the books. 2010. I believe he will be making 13 or 14 mill that summer. Tyrus & Thabo will be restricted free agents that summer as well.

How bout a look at some of the other free agents for that summer? Who would you go after?

Joe Johnson U

Ray Allen U

Marcus Camby U

Richard Hamilton U

Tracy McGrady U

Luis Scola R

Jermaine O'Neal U

Rudy Gay R

Mike Miller U

Udonis Haslem U

Shaquille O'Neal U

Steve Nash U

LaMarcus Aldridge R

Brandon Roy R

Manu Ginobili U

Carlos Boozer U

Will we have cap room? Or will Deng and BG lock that up.

ptpablo wrote:Will we have cap room? Or will Deng and BG lock that up.

good question. who knows?

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /bulls.jsp

ptpablo wrote:Will we have cap room? Or will Deng and BG lock that up.

I think the way it works is that we can sign someone with the salary coming off the books.

This may result in lux-tax. But I can see it this way, if no changes are made:

Kirk + Backup ( 10 Million)
BG
Deng ( Together these 2 make about 22 million lets say)
Nocioni ( About 7 million)
Ben Wallace's 14 million expiring.

All the other rookies etc...add to another 12 million lets say.

Thats about 51 million on 4 positions. We can then use BW's 14 million to get someone really significant, while barely avoiding the luxury tax.

Or just paying a little of it.

musiqsoulchild wrote:

ptpablo wrote:Will we have cap room? Or will Deng and BG lock that up.

I think the way it works is that we can sign someone with the salary coming off the books.

This may result in lux-tax. But I can see it this way, if no changes are made:

Kirk + Backup ( 10 Million)
BG
Deng ( Together these 2 make about 22 million lets say)
Nocioni ( About 7 million)
Ben Wallace's 14 million expiring.

All the other rookies etc...add to another 12 million lets say.

Thats about 51 million on 4 positions. We can then use BW's 14 million to get someone really significant, while barely avoiding the luxury tax.

Or just paying a little of it.

I do not think the slotting system is still in effect. Either way, I would be very careful in the money I give BG. I would seriously look for a sign and trade, especially if we get in the lottery.

How do you make a list for summer 2010 and not have the following guys
LeBron

D-Wade

Bosh

yeah I want one of those 3 guys

If we are really going to have a 2010 plan lets tank for Rose. Trade away everyone but Deng, Noah, and maybe Tyrus, Thabo.

Rose
Lebron
Deng
Tyrus?
Noah

Plus whatever additional lottery picks we have or MLE type guys we can fit while staying enough under the cap for 2010.

I remember way back at the beginning of the season there was this "what if we were gonna blow it up thread." I had a really great specific ideas along these lines. Maybe I'll look it up.

We need to trade Kirk and Noc for deals that expire by 2010 and then we will be in really good shape as long as we can keep the Deng and Gordon deals reasonable.

Here's my post in Doug's old thread:


Trade Hinrich and Nocioni for a guard whose contract expires in 2009 or 2010.

Extend Deng and Gordon (minimum salary allowable under CBA for the 2010 season).

Extend Tyrus Thomas.

Re-sign Aaron Gray.

Let Thabo become a RFA. By then we should know what we have with him.


By the summer of 2010, our salary structure would look like:

Noah - $3 mill
Thomas - $8 mill
Deng - $8.5 mill
Gordon - $8.5 mill
Thabo - $4 mill
Gray - $5 mill
'08 1st round pick - $2 mill
'09 1st round pick - $2 mill

That's $41 million in committed salary. The NBA salary cap is currently $55.6 million. Based on recent trends, my guess is $61 million would be a reasonable assumption for the 2010-11 salary cap.

That gives us $20 million in cap space to make a run at King James.

There are only two hang-ups:

1) Trading Hinrich and Nocioni for a guard whose deal expires in 2010 (or '09) could be difficult. We'd have to find a willing trade partner, plus we'd have to get a good enough player to keep the team competitive, and not look like a blatant salary dump to quell the inevitable PR hit. I haven't really looked at rosters and salaires, so I don't know who this anonymous player is right now. I'll be on the lookout...

2) Actually getting James to sign on the dotted line. I think a lineup of Gordon, Deng, and Tyrus & Noah (with 2.5 more years of seasoning) would be attractive. That team should be able to stay playoff competitive.

Hopefully LeBron could see the potential of the team with him in the lineup. Gordon would be the 3-point assassin feasting off LeBron's penetration. Deng would be the skilled wingmate; moving without the ball, and being the recipient of LeBron's deft passes. Tyrus and Noah would be the long, active post players who could protect the paint, clean up the glasses, and start the fast break if need be. And by then, I think they could have decent offensive skillsets (especially Tyrus). Plus the '08 and '09 picks could yield promising players.

And then there are the financial ramifications. Chicago is obviously a much bigger media market than Cleveland. New York and L.A. could also be players. Scratch off the Clippers simply because they're the Clippers. Kobe more than likely stays in L.A., and I highly doubt they'd team up. The Knicks are a hot mess. Scratch them off. The sleeper could be the Nets. They're moving to Brooklyn, and apparently LeBron and Jay-Z are tight. However, the Nets don't look like a very promising team in a few years. There's also the possibility LeBron stays in Cleveland, but I just don't see it. Ferry hasn't made any moves, and they have a lot of salary commited through 2009. They'll have a ton available in 2010, but that could be "too little too late". So all we gotta do is have Benny the Bull greet LeBron at the airport, let him throw out the first pitch at a Cubs game, and we got him.


2010 Lineup

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG LeBron
PG Gordon

Some voiced concerns about LeBron playing the 2 even though the 3 is his natural position. I just don't envision this is a problem. LeBron is arguably the best athlete in the NBA. He shouldn't have any problem chasing SGs around. Offensively, I also don't see a problem. He would have the primary ball handling responsibilities, thus Gordon's dribbling deficiencies would be minimized. He would be absolutely lethal on kickouts. Deng would still be very effective slashing without the basketball, even moreso with LeBron spearheading the attack. Deng also said he wants to put the 3-point shot back in his game. At worst, Deng should be a functional 30% three-point shooter.

That's pretty much all I got.

Git 'er done, Pax. Somehow.

Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:Here's my post in Doug's old thread:


Trade Hinrich and Nocioni for a guard whose contract expires in 2009 or 2010.

Extend Deng and Gordon (minimum salary allowable under CBA for the 2010 season).

Extend Tyrus Thomas.

Re-sign Aaron Gray.

Let Thabo become a RFA. By then we should know what we have with him.


By the summer of 2010, our salary structure would look like:

Noah - $3 mill
Thomas - $8 mill
Deng - $8.5 mill
Gordon - $8.5 mill
Thabo - $4 mill
Gray - $5 mill
'08 1st round pick - $2 mill
'09 1st round pick - $2 mill

That's $41 million in committed salary. The NBA salary cap is currently $55.6 million. Based on recent trends, my guess is $61 million would be a reasonable assumption for the 2010-11 salary cap.

That gives us $20 million in cap space to make a run at King James.

There are only two hang-ups:

1) Trading Hinrich and Nocioni for a guard whose deal expires in 2010 (or '09) could be difficult. We'd have to find a willing trade partner, plus we'd have to get a good enough player to keep the team competitive, and not look like a blatant salary dump to quell the inevitable PR hit. I haven't really looked at rosters and salaires, so I don't know who this anonymous player is right now. I'll be on the lookout...

2) Actually getting James to sign on the dotted line. I think a lineup of Gordon, Deng, and Tyrus & Noah (with 2.5 more years of seasoning) would be attractive. That team should be able to stay playoff competitive.

Hopefully LeBron could see the potential of the team with him in the lineup. Gordon would be the 3-point assassin feasting off LeBron's penetration. Deng would be the skilled wingmate; moving without the ball, and being the recipient of LeBron's deft passes. Tyrus and Noah would be the long, active post players who could protect the paint, clean up the glasses, and start the fast break if need be. And by then, I think they could have decent offensive skillsets (especially Tyrus). Plus the '08 and '09 picks could yield promising players.

And then there are the financial ramifications. Chicago is obviously a much bigger media market than Cleveland. New York and L.A. could also be players. Scratch off the Clippers simply because they're the Clippers. Kobe more than likely stays in L.A., and I highly doubt they'd team up. The Knicks are a hot mess. Scratch them off. The sleeper could be the Nets. They're moving to Brooklyn, and apparently LeBron and Jay-Z are tight. However, the Nets don't look like a very promising team in a few years. There's also the possibility LeBron stays in Cleveland, but I just don't see it. Ferry hasn't made any moves, and they have a lot of salary commited through 2009. They'll have a ton available in 2010, but that could be "too little too late". So all we gotta do is have Benny the Bull greet LeBron at the airport, let him throw out the first pitch at a Cubs game, and we got him.


2010 Lineup

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG LeBron
PG Gordon

Some voiced concerns about LeBron playing the 2 even though the 3 is his natural position. I just don't envision this is a problem. LeBron is arguably the best athlete in the NBA. He shouldn't have any problem chasing SGs around. Offensively, I also don't see a problem. He would have the primary ball handling responsibilities, thus Gordon's dribbling deficiencies would be minimized. He would be absolutely lethal on kickouts. Deng would still be very effective slashing without the basketball, even moreso with LeBron spearheading the attack. Deng also said he wants to put the 3-point shot back in his game. At worst, Deng should be a functional 30% three-point shooter.

That's pretty much all I got.

Git 'er done, Pax. Somehow.

How do you have Gordon and Deng making only 8.5M in 2010? Also depending on whether or not Thomas signed an extension the summer before or not he may not be under contract, but he may have a cap hold. What the cap hold would be i don't know, but it could be for more than he signs for.

I'd say if we want to go after Lebron/Wade, we can hang onto Deng only out of the big three. No Gordon. No Hinrich. But if we get another lottery pick or two along the way thats okay.

I think we should focus on getting some late 1st rounders. If you draft well you have pretty productive players on 4 year contracts for really cheap. If dealt Kirk or Noc to good teams I bet we could squeeze out their picks.

I also like maybe trading Gordon to Portland for Rudy Fernandez if we decide to tank. He would be a top 10 pick in this draft but if we trade for him we have him at the 24th pick salary for 4 years. He would thrive in an uptempo system so we could go for Derrick Rose (and tank) or have Tywon Lawson as a backup plan.

Orlando has so much money ear marked to next year, a deal to them probably could get their number one. Portland trading Rudy though is a pipe dream

2010 is way to far ahead for me to look at. I only clicked here to see SherronShabazz' avatar again.

emperorjones wrote:2010 is way to far ahead for me to look at. I only clicked here to see SherronShabazz' avatar again.

hahahahahahaaha

Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:Extend Deng and Gordon (minimum salary allowable under CBA for the 2010 season).

Interesting.

I've never seen or heard of this being done...what about contracts whose value sags in the middle?? Is it allowed under the CBA? There's the usual escalating...and there's frontloaded as we've seen with our own team. Why not the sag in the middle? Am I not thinking of something obvious that prevents this?

"You're still gonna get your money, but we need you to take less in year X so that we can make a run at Free Agent class Y and make us all into a real contender."

How could a player not go for that?

Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:

2010 Lineup

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG LeBron
PG Gordon

That would be one sick sick lineup!!!!!

Well wingy the problem is that you're always limited by the plus or minus 10.5%. It would be one thing if you could take the structure of an extreme back loaded contract and just swap the middle year with the lowest year, but then you would exceed 10.5% increase.

The only possible thing I could think of it to somehow used deferred payments, but I'm not sure how that works under the CBA. I'll look it up though.
Edit- nevermind, deferred compensation still counts in the season its earned and not when its paid, so it wouldn't effect the cap.

Friend_Of_Haley wrote:Well wingy the problem is that you're always limited by the plus or minus 10.5%.

That's it, that's what I was missing. Now it makes sense why it's not done. Thanks FoH.

Great. I killed this thread but I'm bringing it back. I know doug started a longer version but I didn't wanna dig that far back.

So, not to put a cloud over an already darkened sky...but I know this plan is the greatest hope for many people. I had the thought today -

Why the hell are other teams gonna wanna trade us their players that expire at that particular time? The whole league will want cap space for then. Does anyone think we could see a "trade freeze" around then? No one wanting to make a move to help others in luring the big FA's??