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during Inside the NBA yesteday the last segement Barkely got angry at people and media jumping on Noah and the kids. And said people need to start looking at the Vets they are the reason the Bulls stink. He also said he is tired for people jumping on Noah while the vets get a pass. Who agrees with Mr. Barkley?

more than a hundred people check the get ben wallace out of here thread

Jordan45822 wrote:during Inside the NBA yesteday the last segement Barkely got angry at people and media jumping on Noah and the kids. And said people need to start looking at the Vets they are the reason the Bulls stink. He also said he is tired for people jumping on Noah while the vets get a pass. Who agrees with Mr. Barkley?

Well, I think we pretty much all agree with the general notion that the vets are the ones letting us down on the court this year. We all want to see more Noah. He's bringing it. So Barkley's premise is unsurpisingly uninformed and flawed. No one is blaming Noah for the team's woes.

Hell, Noah's the teflon rookie for crying out loud. I've never seen anything like it. He gets to angrily call his coach a **** and become a folk-hero for it while the fans and media lash out at the players, GM, and coach for punishing the conduct.

I've never seen a Bulls rookie get this type of entitlement, golden-boy treatment from the fans and media in my life. Chuck's idea of where to point blame is sound, but its based on inaccurate information. Blame is already being pointed that way when its deserved and even when its not.

tclg wrote:more than a hundred people check the get ben wallace out of here thread

Yeah, majority of us are on the side of Joakim. He produces, unlike Ben Wallace has this year.

I think where the problems lie, is the team is improperly managed, and its coming from guys who aren't performing or under performing (Wallace & Griffin). Those guys aren't leaders for a fairly young group. If Barkley has beef with this team it should be directed at the coaching staff's inability (whose been here since late 2003) & the "core." Those guys should be leading and the remainder should be following that lead. However that isn't the case.

DuckIII wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Hell, Noah's the teflon rookie for crying out loud. I've never seen anything like it. He gets to angrily call his coach a mother-**** and become a folk-hero for it while the fans and media lash out at the players, GM, and coach for punishing the conduct.

That's because Jo is just saying what we all want to say

Grand.Champ wrote:That's because Jo is just saying what we all want to say

Is he? I've personally never had the urge to call assistant coach Ron Adams a ****. But thats just me.

DuckIII wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Is he? I've personally never had the urge to call assistant coach Ron Adams a mother-****. But thats just me.

Well perhaps not Ron, but I'm sure you would have told that to Scooter if he wouldn't have spazzed in your face after you said it to him.

DuckIII wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Is he? I've personally never had the urge to call assistant coach Ron Adams a mother-****. But thats just me.

I have.

I can't tell which parts of Duck's post are in green. He gets a pass? His minutes randomly got docked earlier this season, he is playing behind a brooding ex-player, he gets suspended one game by his coach and the team has a special meeting to determine what to do with him.

If you are talking about with the fans in general, even then he isn't "getting a pass". The fans see that this team does not have any established leadership, especially once Skiles took his fall from grace. In the absence of leadership, team and fans alike will turn to whatever personality is speaking out, good or bad. Joakim just happens to be the only guy with the stones to show leadership. He has earned whatever "pass" you think he has received as he is the only one vocally trying to right this ship. And I think it is good and he is positive as a leader, even if he isn't "the guy".

Grand.Champ wrote:Well perhaps not Ron, but I'm sure you would have told that to Scooter if he wouldn't have spazzed in your face after you said it to him.

Perhaps. The point is, the "Noah situation" has nothing to do with the actual Noah situation. If this team were 21-14 (the inverse of the record when Noah called his coach a ****) and it came out that Noah had called one of the coaches a **** during practice, he would have been absolutely crucified locally and nationally by the press and fans alike.

Last year around this time of year, the Bulls were good (and that is the distinguishing factor here) and Tyrus Thomas makes a meaningless comment about "free money" and it turns him into public enemy number 1. Can you imagine what would have happened to that kid if it had been reported that he'd been showing up late for practice all season and then called his coach a ****? He wouldn't have been able to show his face in public.

The best thing thats happened to Noah so far in his career is that the team was underachieving at the time he decided to act like an entitlement-minded jack ass while calling his coach a ****.

Dieselbound&Down wrote:I can't tell which parts of Duck's post are in green. He gets a pass? His minutes randomly got docked earlier this season, he is playing behind a brooding ex-player, he gets suspended one game by his coach and the team has a special meeting to determine what to do with him.

I'm talking about the fans and media, not the coaching staff. In my first post I note that we all think he should be getting more run.

If you are talking about with the fans in general, even then he isn't "getting a pass". The fans see that this team does not have any established leadership, especially once Skiles took his fall from grace. In the absence of leadership, team and fans alike will turn to whatever personality is speaking out, good or bad. Joakim just happens to be the only guy with the stones to show leadership. He has earned whatever "pass" you think he has received as he is the only one vocally trying to right this ship. And I think it is good and he is positive as a leader, even if he isn't "the guy".

Leadership 101: Call your coach a ****?

I'm referring to that incident. He not only got a pass from the fans and the media, he was embraced.

Don't confuse my disgust with the circus surrounding that event with dislike or disapproval for Noah on the whole. I love the guy. After Deng, he's the last guy on the entire roster I'd be willing to include in a trade. I want him to end up being a leader of this team. I hated it when Skiles shouted him down for speaking the truth early in the season, and I love it that he spoke out to Wallace in the locker-room recently.

DuckIII wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Is he? I've personally never had the urge to call assistant coach Ron Adams a mother-****. But thats just me.

I don't know why you keep reporting this as fact. Is this not taken from some radio show, with no direct written quote? I doubt he'd be off the hook if such a quote was published.

BrooklynBulls wrote:I don't know why you keep reporting this as fact. Is this not taken from some radio show, with no direct written quote? I doubt he'd be off the hook if such a quote was published.

It was taken from a radio report. But subsequent articles have referred to it as "profanity-laced", which would tend to support the radio report. And no one, no one, from the Bulls has tried to downplay the egregiousness of what it is that he said.

So if you think I'm presuming too much by repeated saying Noah called his coach a ****, then just substitute "directed a profanity-laced tirade at his coach". It doesn't modify the point.

DuckIII wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
The best thing thats happened to Noah so far in his career is that the team was underachieving at the time he decided to act like an entitlement-minded jack ass while calling his coach a mother-****.

It's a huge presumption that Noah would act like an entitlement-minded jack ass if the team was playing to its potential and there were established leaders whom he respected.

I do agree that, if he called the coach a mother after showing up late for practice, that is not something noteworthy on his part.

Getting back to the OP, Barkley does have it right that the Bulls failure this year has come from the vets and the coaches.

DuckIII wrote:So Barkley's premise is unsurpisingly uninformed and flawed. No one is blaming Noah for the team's woes.

Hell, Noah's the teflon rookie for crying out loud.

Right, because his basis for evaluation is strictly from what he sees in the media. The appearance is being given that the media is piling on Noah recently...look how big the story became nationally.

I'd say that "no one" is blaming Noah is inaccurate...at least from a perception standpoint when you're not in the "inner-circle." No informed, die-hard RealGm postin' Bulls fan is blaming Noah. No local Chicago media is blaming Noah. But outside the Chicago-centric world...it looks to the casual observer (Barkley) that Noah is taking too much criticism. His reaction is natural. I mean, has anyone ever heard of a player being suspended by his teammates before this in ANY sport?

DuckIII wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



It was taken from a radio report. But subsequent articles have referred to it as "profanity-laced", which would tend to support the radio report. And no one, no one, from the Bulls has tried to downplay the egregiousness of what it is that he said.

So if you think I'm presuming too much by repeated saying Noah called his coach a mother-****, then just substitute "directed a profanity-laced tirade at his coach". It doesn't modify the point.

I didn't say anyone did try to downplay the outburst. I am saying that the lack of knowledge of what went on there (and what you're saying happened is pretty much unconfirmed and not widespread knowledge) has caused Noah to get off way more lightly than he would have otherwise. Its not that he's somehow protected from scorn, its just difficult to pin down whether what Noah said is somehow redeemable or just awful(Donovan said that whatever the argument was, Noah just wants to win. Noah has the image of a winner, so perhaps that reputation, combined with this team's propensity for losing, has insulated him).

Edit b/c of your edit: I'm just openly wondering why people ARENT more angry at Noah. TB#1 I think mistakenly thought that the m-fer quote was in print, and I myself became much more negative towards Noah until I learned that he was mistaken.

Dieselbound&Down wrote:It's a huge presumption that Noah would act like an entitlement-minded jack ass if the team was playing to its potential and there were established leaders whom he respected.

Oh, I agree. I don't presume that. I'm just saying he's damn fortunate that when he did act that way, the team was under-achieving.

Getting back to the OP, Barkley does have it right that the Bulls failure this year has come from the vets and the coaches.

Absolutely he does have that right. But the OP said Barkley was criticizing "people" and "media" for putting the blame on Noah. And that, simply put, is the exact opposite of what is actually happening.

Wingy wrote:Right, because his basis for evaluation is strictly from what he sees in the media. The appearance is being given that the media is piling on Noah recently...look how big the story became nationally.

I'd say that "no one" is blaming Noah is inaccurate...at least from a perception standpoint when you're not in the "inner-circle." No informed, die-hard RealGm postin' Bulls fan is blaming Noah. No local Chicago media is blaming Noah. But outside the Chicago-centric world...it looks to the casual observer (Barkley) that Noah is taking too much criticism. His reaction is natural. I mean, has anyone ever heard of a player being suspended by his teammates before this in ANY sport?

I have not seen Noah take any blame nationally or locally. Everything I saw was directed at the vets, the coach, and the GM.

Yeah I think the line is blurred concerning Noah and leadership. Lets get this thing clear, Noah isnt showing any leadership by consistantly coming late for practise and cussing out his coach.

If he was the leader of the team, you actually want your young guys to follow him? This is why players like Zach Randolph and Darius Miles who are good players are considered team killers.

To be a good leader, you have to lead by example. Say like Luol or even Gordon. The problem is, those guys arent vocal....at all. And Kirk the one who has been around here the longest, the one who probably naturally should be the leader (hes the starting pg) is far far from it.

Noah probably wants to and most like will be the leader someday, but he isnt there yet..not even close. I just hope he learns from this. But I get the feeling he definately will going forward.

DuckIII wrote:
Is he? I've personally never had the urge to call assistant coach Ron Adams a mother-****. But thats just me.

My assessment is that you just like to type "mother-****". This makes, what, around 4 dozen times in the past day or so?