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Hinrich needs to go.

We need a real point guard. Someone who can make the right passes to our big men, execute a pick and roll. Drive the lane and direct the team and make the right passes.

Gordon needs to go.

He is a really good scorer. But thats it. He is so one dimensional, regardless of how good he can be at times on the offensive end, he doesn't do anything else. He is a bad rebounder, he is a bad passer. He makes no impact on the game besides when his shots fall.

Duhon needs to go.

He makes the occasional good pass, but so could anyone with steady ball handling a person who knows the plays. His defense is over-rated, his shooting is just horrible.

Our back court are just too short, too inconsistent and too one-dimensional. When they don't shoot well, they make no positive impacts on other aspects of the game. We need players that can still make plays when shots arn't falling. Players who can score will always be available in this league, everyone likes to score. But the really good players are the ones who can make impacts on the game when their shots arn't falling to help their team win. We don't have any of those players.

I don't know who is available, but i want a total overhaul of our back court. No, i don't want Gordon to be our point guard. I want a real point guard. I don't want Hinrich playing with a taller ball shooting guard, because he still won't be a point guard regardless.

We need some major changes in our back court.

So you want to trade not a real point guard and not a real shooting guard for a good real point guard and a good real shooting guard? Yeah, me too.

Is this thread locked yet??

I wouldn't say a totally new backcourt. I would keep BG if possible. He's a really good scorer and can defend most point guards OK. But if we keep him we're going to need a big guard who can not only defend but who can also score. Thabo can't; Duhon can't.

We lost tonight primarily b/c we were outscored outrageously in the back court. No question about it. Our defense was non-existent. But that still doesn't make me want to give up on BG. Maybe I'm just a stupid homer, and I won't hold it against anyone who takes that position.

Yeah - we're stuck.

The biggest change from last year to this year is that the Bulls backcourt routinely outplayed its opposition last year. This year, they get owned night in and night out.

We can get a true Point guard from Miami in Jason Williams and a true Shooting guard in Ricky Davis from them as well.

But Do those guys fit the description?

LOL

BrooklynBulls wrote:So you want to trade not a real point guard and not a real shooting guard for a good real point guard and a good real shooting guard? Yeah, me too.

I want players who can play both sides of the court. I rather take a lesser offensive player compared with Gordon, but with a better overall game. All great scorers still have off shooting nights, but they can still make impacts on the game. Gordon, and Hinrich arn't capable of that.

Gordon had a great shooting game tonight, i'll give him that. But what did his opposing player score? We just need better all round players, that don't just play one side of the court.

Nah, we haven't given Duhon enough time yet. He was compared to Zeke on nbadraft.net for a reason, dude.

kulaz3000 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I want players who can play both sides of the court. I rather take a lesser offensive player compared with Gordon, but with a better overall game. All great scorers still have off shooting nights, but they can still make impacts on the game. Gordon, and Hinrich arn't capable of that.

Gordon had a great shooting game tonight, i'll give him that. But what did his opposing player score? We just need better all round players, that don't just play one side of the court.

So again, you want to trade two not-so-good guys for two good guys. I share that sentiment. Just don't talk specifics. Then my argument falls apart.

I don' think we really have ever lost a game where you look at the game, and be like, "Damn, Gordon screwed us over tonight." But there are tons of games, where we only win because of Gordon. That is not the type of guy you trade.

Brandon Roy actually is the perfect fit next to Gordon. Paxson blew that one.

I'd keep Gordon and Thabo. Move Hinrich, keep Duhon, but define his role as BACKUP.

Bull Shak wrote:I don' think we really have ever lost a game where you look at the game, and be like, "Damn, Gordon screwed us over tonight."

Well thats where your "Gordon googles" decieve you. There are plenty of games i have watched in this season alone, where Gordon has taken a poor shot or made critical turnovers late in games to cost of the game and made me say, "Damn, Gordon screwed us over tonight".

When you lose close games and routinely get outplayed in crunch time, that's on the guards. I'll just leave it at that.

Bull Shak wrote:I don' think we really have ever lost a game where you look at the game, and be like, "Damn, Gordon screwed us over tonight."

There are plenty of games where a Gordon turnover has ended our chances. That being said, I would keep him and Sef and ship the other two out.

I'd like to see what JamesOn could do. Not saying he's the answer, but heck, explore it and see how he responds.

I'll say this, I haven't missed Kirk one bit since he's been out. I dislike Duhon as a starter, but the difference between Du and Kirk is negligible IMO. They are very similar players with Kirk getting the nod in the majority of areas, but being overall average across the board (including his defense this year).

The other thing is that if we draft a young guard, you know Pax is going to have to bring in a Vet guard to teach them the ways. This theory sounds good, but ultimately the vets have really just stunted the growth of the young players by gobbling all their minutes.

Bull Shak wrote:I don' think we really have ever lost a game where you look at the game, and be like, "Damn, Gordon screwed us over tonight." But there are tons of games, where we only win because of Gordon. That is not the type of guy you trade.

Brandon Roy actually is the perfect fit next to Gordon. Paxson blew that one.

I'd keep Gordon and Thabo. Move Hinrich, keep Duhon, but define his role as BACKUP.

Remember when Dwight Howard stripped Gordon in the backcourt. That was about a week ago and the next game he did another big turnover in the final posetions.

Gordon is Tony Delk redux a great 6th man for a championship team.
He should be coming off the bench in San Antonio and we should have Ginobli starting here alongside Nocioni. While we then trade Deng along with Thomas for Gasol and Navaro.

Then we can have
pg navaro
sg-Ginobli
sf-Noce
pf-Gasol

All talking in spanish to each other to throw off opposing teams.

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



There are plenty of games where a Gordon turnover has ended our chances. That being said, I would keep him and Sef and ship the other two out.

The way Ben Gordon blows games is like a good-great movie with an abrupt & terrible ending. The Ben Wallace way is like a terrible movie with an ending you don't care about because they whole movie sucked in the first place. I'll take poor clutch play over watching "She's the Man" night in and night out.

Im not totally bashing Gordon, or any other player. He is a good scorer, and at times a great scorer. But that is it. The occasional fancy passes don't make him a point guard. His defense is average on the best of nights, and wont ever shut down an opposing player when needed. He is a great scorer off the bench, i honestly think thats his best role, because he is just too one-dimensional. But because he is young, he will continue to fight to be a starter and will probably demand to be traded to be a starter in this league, and his faults will continue to be exposed untill one day when he is 30 years old, he will realize that his game is best executed as a gunner off the bench.

As for Hinrich, his defense is his bread and butter. But in this league, where they don't allow any contact on the priemeter, he came into the league a decade or two too late to be a really good player in this leage. His court vision is very narrow, he often makes the wrong passes and just makes poor decisions for a player who handles the ball the most on a team. We need someone more reliable, and he isn't reliable.

Gordon and Kirk both had great seasons last season, but i think Paxson should have still traded one of the other for a legit point guard or a legit shooting guard. Now we are left with two non-pure guards who have been over-exposed by the rest of the team.

kulaz3000 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Well thats where your "Gordon googles" decieve you. There are plenty of games i have watched in this season alone, where Gordon has taken a poor shot or made critical turnovers late in games to cost of the game and made me say, "Damn, Gordon screwed us over tonight".

That can be true, but if one of those that you're talking about were in a situation, where Gordon was keeping us in the game during the crunch, it doesn't really hold much weight.

I say stick with Kirk and Thabo and try and move Gordon for either a low post scorer or a big SG who can get to the rim. Then hope they can draft a young backcourt scorer like Eric Gordon or Chase Budinger or OJ Mayo