Releasing the "Dobermans" - Bulls Coaching search

[TeamMan]

There are a lot more questions that I'm posing here rather than any one player's value.

The big question is (since Pax has said that he want's to hire a coach that thinks the same way that he thinks), how/what does Pax actually think?

Well, we have some clues based on what Pax has done in the past. For instance:

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T2 - Pax traded down to get him, but said that T2 was the player that he wanted all along. He's been playing mostly at PF but in the last game of the season, he was tried at SF. (Is Pax looking at trading either Deng or Noc and moving T2 to SF?)

Noah - The Bulls only got him because of his shoulder injury. He's listed on the Bulls roster as C-F, but in the last game of the season he was tried at PF. (Does Pax see Noah as a future PF while spending less minutes at center - maybe to be sure that his shoulder injury doesn't come back?)

Thabo - After seeing him go head-to-head with Roy, Pax decided to pass on Roy and trade up to get Thabo. At the time Pax stated publicly that it was necessary to get JR directly involved because the deal with Philly included cash and JR had to approve it. He also stated that he wanted Thabo to play either with Kirk or with BG suggesting that he expected Thabo to be the 3rd guard in the rotation. (Has that changed now that we have Hughes?)

JOC - Pax gave him a guarantee before the draft, then sent him down to the D-League to learn to play PG where he had a big impact (averaging about 20 ppg and leading the team in assists) before having another run-in with the law. Afterwards Pax sent him off to get surgury for an injured hand and kept him off of the roster for the rest of the season? (Has Pax given up on him as a future backup PG, or will Pax try to trade for someone during the off season?)

Gray - We've already had a long discussion about Gray, but there have been some interesting side lines that weren't discussed. I don't have any quotes at hand, but one of the criticisms coming from outside of the Bulls organization was that Gray should have been getting more minutes. And while Wallace was still with the team, he dropped hints that he'd like to see Gray start so that he could move to PF and, "...be free to roam...". Apparently this was picked up on by the Cavs because they decide to trade for Wallace and start him at PF.

Also, T2 played together with Gray on a winning summer-league team and averaged 5 bpg in the kind of "roaming" defensive role that Wallace wanted to have playing PF with Gray. (So, does Pax believe that Gray will be effective if he plays together with a group of "Dobermans" (Noah, T2, Thabo and KirkH) like Luc Longley did on the last Bulls' championship teams?)

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These are the kinds of questions that come out of what Pax has either done, or publicly stated. So shouldn't we believe that while he's looking for a new head coach that this is the kind of "like thinking" that he wants, but wasn't getting from Skiles/Dolan?

For me, it'll be very interesing to see who Pax hires as head coach, and what kind of statements will come out after that happens.


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How many of you posters were aware that Gray started only one game for the Bulls last season, but in that game he had a double-double in the 1st quarter, and finished the game with 19 pts and 22 rbs?

The reason that I ask this question is because of Pax's coach search.

He's publicly stated that he wants a coach that thinks the same way that he does, which (strangely enough) suggest that neither Skiles nor Boylan did. And it may be that Gray was one of the problems since Pax made the unprecedented move of giving Gray (a 2nd-round pick) a 2-year, guaranteed, contract.

In the 4th qtr of that game we also saw a lineup of:

C - Gray
PF - Noah
SF - T2
SG - Thabo
PG - Du

Which has some significance because Pax had previously stated that he wasn't going to ask Boylan to use specific lineups until after Boylan had had a clear shot at taking the team to the playoffs.

But at the same time, Du appeared to be one of the issues that existed between Boylan and Pax.

Apparently Pax had decided before the draft last year to try and get in a PG that could hit an open jumper, and afterwards offered JOC a guarantee to draft him with the #51 pick. JOC didn't work out for any more teams afterwards, and went straight back to school and announced that he wasn't returning for his senior year.

Which brings us to some more interesting tid-bits.

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JOC was sent to the D-League to play PG, and started there in every game that he played. An interestingly enough, of all of the players that the Bulls sent to the D-League, JOC was the only one where the team had a winning record while he was there.

Something else that I read somewhere (don't remember the source, but I believe that it was from Iowa's web site) is that apparently Euro teams send scouts over to look at D-League players to see if there is anyone they'd like to import. And it seems that they were very impressed with JOC and he more or less guaranteed himself of finding a team if he decides to go to Europe to play.

But what I'd expect 1st is that JOC will get a shot at playing PG again in the summer league and during the pre-season with Gray at center and Noah at PF.

[coldfish]

Gray was effective at times, but overall I thought the board overrated his abilities. His primary issue is his speed and athleticism.

On defense, people just ran around him. Hell, they just jogged around him. He just has no lateral quickness at all.

On offense, he has lots of nice moves, but his inability to jump prevented him from being a high percentage option. For as many close looks as he got, he shot a low percentage.

Last note: Giving a second rounder 2 years isn't that rare. Gray was thought of as a 1st rounder at one point, so it wasn't that much of a stretch.

[Three34]

Gray's offensive value is overrated. Given that all he can do is score and pass, he's not that good of a scorer. He can hit some hook shots, and he can air some more. His jumpshot isn't much. His free throw are bad.

That said, it's rather easy to sell high on him, given the cheap price, his young age, and his near-enough 20/20 performance. You can make an argument to a potential suitor that "when he gets minutes, he produces".

You just don't tell them why it is that he onyl gets so few minutes, and hope that they weren't looking that hard.

[dougthonus]

I'm not sure how negotiations work for a second rounder.

Really why would you ever guarantee a 2nd round pick 2 years when you can just go with a team option on year 2 instead (usually with a 100k or so buyout if the option is declined).

The only thing I can think of is that they need to do things like that occasionally to stop a euroleague team from stealing him, but otherwise it just doesn't seem to make much sense to ever guarantee the 2nd round pick 2 years.

Regardless of that, I think Gray showed enough to be on the roster next year for sure, so no big deal, but I agree with Coldfish. Gray's got a hell of a lot of weaknesses. His defense is non existent and his short arms for his height combined with no lift make his post scoring much lower percentage than it should be given how close he gets.

[Three34]

Fully uaranteed two year contracts are somewhat rare, but the two year length is fully standard. A lot of times (i.e. more often than a fully guaranteed two year deal), the player gets three years (Steve Novak, Salim Stoudamire, Dominic McGuire, Paul Millsap and Solomon Jones are examples that I can think of without having to bother researching). Doing so requires dipping into the MLE, though, so that's why Gray didn't get one.

The two year length is kind of a standard length. The only real times you see a one year deal being signed is when the team didn't want the player to sign it (Landry, Duhon, Nichols are examples of this).

[DanTown8587]

I would try and trade Gray for a high second rounder and get a more athletic big. If we get Mike D and he brings that offense here, I don't want to see Gray (who is the most overrated player on this board IMO) die on the court.

And as the mods and mod Jr. Sham said, Gray has many more deficiencies than he does strengths.

[fudgie]

Gray needs to work on his all around game. He's got some decent skills already and some stuff to work on but that doesn't worry me so much. The main thing is that he needs to lose some weight and work on his speed and agility. If he can do this he can be a solid backup, maybe even a decent starter. If he can't do this he'll be and end of the bench scrub or out of the league.

He showed me enough to keep him around for next season. He'll need to show some improvement from his rookie season for me to want to keep him past that.

[Susan]

Aaron Gray should stick around until Noah is gone simply because he's so bad at doing Noah's hand shaking celebration.

[kodo]

Marcus Fizer also had 20/20 games. The entire point is how consistently you can bring it, and then again in the playoffs.

There's a lot of X player had Y game, therefore he will be a future star type of rationalizing here, and every team in the league has bench players that explode in a few games. That doesn't mean these bench players are special or 99% of them will ever make the leap.

I'm a big fan of Gray because he's a 2nd rounder and most 2nd rounders don't even play, but until Gray makes major improvements no coach we're looking at (Avery, DAntoni, Jackson) would have played Gray either. And specifically for D'Antoni, i doubt Gray would even make the roster.

[Three34]

Marcus Fizer also had 20/20 games. The entire point is how consistently you can bring it, and then again in the playoffs.

Not sure what any of this as to do with Gray's perceived value around the league.