Ben Gordon outcome: What would bother you more?

[sco]

Ok, I am mad that I am wasting so much time thinking about Gordon (vs. other things the Bulls could be doing). But to be honest, I'm not sure which outcome actually bothers me more:

Ben signs for $59M
Great we have our highest scorer back! But wait, wasn't he our best scorer last year when we sucked? So we now have $59M tied-up in a marginal starting SG or a really good 6th man. And we will have a heck of a time trading that contract, because of BYC status, and if we actually want to trade him down the road, he must not be playing so well. So I'm not so excited about this scenario.

We trade Ben for marginal players and expiring contracts
Look it has become clear that we aren't going to get a legit starting talent back for Ben in a trade, so if we trade him it will be for some combo of bench players, expiring contracts, and maybe a late 1st round pick (if we're lucky). That doesn't excite me either.

Ben takes the QO
Ok so we'd have Ben this year. He'd probably play hard because it's in his nature, but we'd be going the whole season without taking a step forward and we'll be back in this quagmire next off-season.

[Tommy Udo 6]

We are supposed to pick the one that would bother us more?

In other words - not what we think will happen but what we consider the "worst possible event".

is that how we should vote?

[Rerisen]

But wait, wasn't he our best scorer last year when we sucked?

Wait, wasn't he the leading scorer on a 2nd round playoff team that won 49 games as well with practically no frountcourt?

[ManicBullsFan]

Too short, can't dribble and falls over all by himself

[dflaschberger]

I still want him back, and we buy out hughes. He is our 6th man with rose and kirk starting. Thabo's gotta earn minutes at the 2/3 (unless we deal noc)

[6_Rings]

no we should not overpay him. he'll become untradeable if we still suck next season.

[WshflThinking]

I hope BG signs the QO and we draft Dell Curry's son. He lit up the NCAA tourney bigtime. He is BG2.

[jax98]

Except 6/59 isn't overpaying him. For one, he's not a 6th man. Secondly, even if he was, he would still get starters minutes. So the first option is far from accurate.

It would bother me that we just lost him. I would probably rather have that than gathering some small chips we won't use, but it would suck to see Ben leave the organization. He, Derrick and Luol has the potential to become the best 1/2/3 combo in the league. Both Gordon & Deng are damn-near perfect for Rose and vice versa. Rose won't have to carry a huge offensive load and could focus more on playmaking, defense and improving within the Bulls scheme.

I'd be one happy camper if Gordon signs for $59M. He deserves more, IMO.

[Ralphb07]

I'd be happy with Ben staying as well. Even if he isn't in the starting lineup he will get starter minutes which is all that matters.

I just wonder when this will be all resolved. I hope it's done before camp begins.

I'm hoping he's just been waiting out and come this week he will accept the deal

[coldfish]

I find the "6th man" argument to be funny. On one hand, you have a bunch of detractors who hold the fact that he wants to start against him, calling him selfish and saying it doesn't matter who starts. On the other hand, you have another set of his detractors saying he is just a 6th man, which dramatically lowers his value. So, does it matter or not?

Personally, I think the game is 48 minutes long. The most important ones are at the end. With that in mind, you want to give your capspace to the guys who actually play, particularly at the end of the game. Does anyone here have any doubt that Gordon (once the roster is fixed) is going to play 30+ minutes and most end of game situations?

Now, if someone wanted to be rational, go around and look at other teams in the league. A guy getting 31 minutes would be what on the pecking order? A guy getting 10M would be where? Basically, from what I have seen, a guy getting low 30's for minutes would be 3rd or 4th on most teams and a guy making 10M would be second or third on most teams. Gordon may be slightly overpaid for his contribution, but its not the end of the world.

[pdenninggolden]

Hello, Ben: It is time to sign. I certainly do not want to lose you for a bag of beans.

[newskoolbulls]

Wow who would have though BG still would be on the market in September.

[Chained To The Ball]

Ben Gordon Bag of Beans .... Paxson also - Bag of Beans!

[NANO 15]

I feel Ben taking the one year offer would bother me more due to his performance last year. In that particular season he seemed like a different player...took many bad shots...didn't pass the ball as much, almost seemed like he was trying to prove himself.
Gordon taking the 6/59 offer would atleast give the franchise a sense of security and allow some roster moves to be made.

[northbrookrich]

I find the "6th man" argument to be funny. On one hand, you have a bunch of detractors who hold the fact that he wants to start against him, calling him selfish and saying it doesn't matter who starts. On the other hand, you have another set of his detractors saying he is just a 6th man, which dramatically lowers his value. So, does it matter or not?

Personally, I think the game is 48 minutes long. The most important ones are at the end. With that in mind, you want to give your capspace to the guys who actually play, particularly at the end of the game. Does anyone here have any doubt that Gordon (once the roster is fixed) is going to play 30+ minutes and most end of game situations?

Now, if someone wanted to be rational, go around and look at other teams in the league. A guy getting 31 minutes would be what on the pecking order? A guy getting 10M would be where? Basically, from what I have seen, a guy getting low 30's for minutes would be 3rd or 4th on most teams and a guy making 10M would be second or third on most teams. Gordon may be slightly overpaid for his contribution, but its not the end of the world.

Fish - I think you are really reaching here. Or maybe you are just buying into the organizational mumbo jumbo. With a ~$58 MM salary cap each team has the room for basically 3 guys with contracts like the one being offered to Gordon. For the 3 top players or stars on my team, I think they need to be in the game at the start of the game and at the end of the game. If you look at the big three on just about every team in the league, they start the game, they start the 2nd half and they end the game on the floor together. San Antonio, perhaps, is the only exception. But, for a guy in his prime on a team as young as this one, a guy earning ~$10 MM per needs to be on the floor. If Gordon is not the right guy for that for whatever reason, you have to wonder if he is worth the cash the Bulls are offering (let alone the cash he is seeking).

Gordon should fire his agent and quickly sign the contract on the table. A holdout even if it gets settled in training camp, is not the way to get off to a strong start this year. We saw last year how a slow start can spiral into a lost year. Gordon's Lance Briggs comments and game of chicken needs to eventually end. Might as well take care of it in the next week so he (and we) can focus on what really matters - a new season!

[pdenninggolden]

I find the "6th man" argument to be funny. On one hand, you have a bunch of detractors who hold the fact that he wants to start against him, calling him selfish and saying it doesn't matter who starts. On the other hand, you have another set of his detractors saying he is just a 6th man, which dramatically lowers his value. So, does it matter or not?

Personally, I think the game is 48 minutes long. The most important ones are at the end. With that in mind, you want to give your capspace to the guys who actually play, particularly at the end of the game. Does anyone here have any doubt that Gordon (once the roster is fixed) is going to play 30+ minutes and most end of game situations?

Now, if someone wanted to be rational, go around and look at other teams in the league. A guy getting 31 minutes would be what on the pecking order? A guy getting 10M would be where? Basically, from what I have seen, a guy getting low 30's for minutes would be 3rd or 4th on most teams and a guy making 10M would be second or third on most teams. Gordon may be slightly overpaid for his contribution, but its not the end of the world.

Fish - I think you are really reaching here. Or maybe you are just buying into the organizational mumbo jumbo. With a ~$58 MM salary cap each team has the room for basically 3 guys with contracts like the one being offered to Gordon. For the 3 top players or stars on my team, I think they need to be in the game at the start of the game and at the end of the game. If you look at the big three on just about every team in the league, they start the game, they start the 2nd half and they end the game on the floor together. San Antonio, perhaps, is the only exception. But, for a guy in his prime on a team as young as this one, a guy earning ~$10 MM per needs to be on the floor. If Gordon is not the right guy for that for whatever reason, you have to wonder if he is worth the cash the Bulls are offering (let alone the cash he is seeking).

Gordon should fire his agent and quickly sign the contract on the table. A holdout even if it gets settled in training camp, is not the way to get off to a strong start this year. We saw last year how a slow start can spiral into a lost year. Gordon's Lance Briggs comments and game of chicken needs to eventually end. Might as well take care of it in the next week so he (and we) can focus on what really matters - a new season!

Very good post, imho...

[Beryl 96]

Aye both of them are, but see for the people who continue to say it doesn't matter if BG starts as long as he's on the court in the end, well BG bought into that whole thinking, but come contract time, it matters, cause thats when every little thing that could be used against you to lower your value springs up. IMO a portion of the blame for this situation could be placed on Skiles and Boylan, they have been the ones who started the likes of Duhon and Hughes ahead of Gordon.

If we retain Ben, he should start unless he is looking not himself and Hinrich or even Hughes *shutters* are looking much improved(referring to training camp and practice for the judging of this).

[coldfish]

Fish - I think you are really reaching here. Or maybe you are just buying into the organizational mumbo jumbo. With a ~$58 MM salary cap each team has the room for basically 3 guys with contracts like the one being offered to Gordon. For the 3 top players or stars on my team, I think they need to be in the game at the start of the game and at the end of the game. If you look at the big three on just about every team in the league, they start the game, they start the 2nd half and they end the game on the floor together. San Antonio, perhaps, is the only exception. But, for a guy in his prime on a team as young as this one, a guy earning ~$10 MM per needs to be on the floor. If Gordon is not the right guy for that for whatever reason, you have to wonder if he is worth the cash the Bulls are offering (let alone the cash he is seeking).

Gordon should fire his agent and quickly sign the contract on the table. A holdout even if it gets settled in training camp, is not the way to get off to a strong start this year. We saw last year how a slow start can spiral into a lost year. Gordon's Lance Briggs comments and game of chicken needs to eventually end. Might as well take care of it in the next week so he (and we) can focus on what really matters - a new season!

I did say "check the minutes". IMO, Gordon is going to get in the low 30's for minutes played. That's a good bit. Like I said, for most teams, that would be 3rd or 4th on the team. Do you disagree that Gordon will play that much? If he only plays 24 or so, I completely agree. At 32 or so, you have a primary player.

FWIW, the lux tax limit is close to 70M. The 58M cap doesn't have much bearing on this.

I think 60M for Gordon is slightly overpaid, don't get me wrong, but its not the end of the world. Chicago's problem isn't slightly overpaying people. Their problem has been having fantastically overpaid people on the roster.

03-04 Rose/Davis $14M JYD $7M
04-05 Davis $13M
05-06 T Thomas $14M
06-07 Wallace $15M, PJ $8M
07-08 Wallace $14M
08-09 Hughes $13M

The team has basically had 25% of its money tied up in really bad players every year.

[N.O.R.E.]

^Aaargh, that list is heinous. I don't want to see it ever again.

[sco]

Another unfortunate thing about Gordon this year is that it is highly unlikely that we'll really learn if he fits well into our backcourt. Rose, even if he does play 25+min a night, isn't likely to show much except flashes of what he can become. So we won't really see much of how good a Rose/Gordon pairing can do.