Aubrey Huff traded to the Tigers

[ChronicKerr]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orio ... 2054.story

For Single A reliever Brett Jacobson

[ajaX82]

awesome

freaking awesome

[ajaX82]

seriously though

He can hit 4th right behind Cabrera. this is the bat we needed. He can play 3rd when Inge is out, or OF, or DH (i bet this most of the time)

Depending on how he hits, this move could really push us over the edge

[kellmellus50]

solid trade ,if we resign him during the offseason.

[Kapono24]

solid trade ,if we resign him during the offseason.

Even if we don't resign him, it'll still help us a ton right now. Love everything about this.

[TSE]

WOW! I have seen a lot of message boards boasting about how great of a trade this was, but I think it is horrendous.

For one, Huff is NOT nearly as good of a hitter as Thames is. And this move could force Guillen to LF with Huff as a DH and cut down on Thames at-bats. Thames is basically a .500 career slugger that is also hitting .500 this year, whereas Huff is a .475 guy, and he's declining and getting older and struggling at .405 this year.

Not to mention we LOSE 1 prospect arm, not a low value arm, a decent pick of a guy that was performing well. We also LOSE money because we have to pay Huff, that comes out of Illitch's pocket and money is finite, so that could reflect his willingness to invest in future years by at least some factor, it can't help that factor it can only hurt it really.

So we are PAYING extra money and PAYING a prospect to get a lesser performance at the plate on a few plate appearances?

The only upside whatsoever to this trade is if Huff is batting in place of somebody else and not in place of Thames. If Santiago moves to SS and Huff plays 2B, so that we have Santiago basically playing for Polanco and Huff playing for Everett then this trade will help the team bigtime. And then we have Polanco on the bench for strategic pinch hitting when we need bunts or small hits that could work cause that's all Polanco has as value as a hitter is in those type of situations and being able to interject him at precise moments is a good value to have rather than forcing him to bat as many times as he does when Santiago is a better hitter.

But if they are planning on keeping Everett in on a day to day basis then this is a REALLY REALLY bad trade.

[tmorgan]

You gotta be kidding, TSE. You need someone to field the ball, and Polanco's as good as it gets out there. I'm with you on Everett -- I'd rather just see Santiago out there 9 games out of 10, but there's absolutely no reason to bench Placido.

One other thing you neglected to mention -- Huff is a left-handed hitter. As long as you're talking about slugging:

Thames SLG, vLHP, vRHP
Season: .554, .470
Career: .531, .477

Huff SLG, vLHP, vRHP
Season: .367, .429
Career: .421, .499

Leyland should be smart enough to use Huff as a platoon DH with the occasional spot start at third, which he has played as recently as 2008 (note that Huff has never played 2B, only corner infield and corner outfield). One might also note that Thames has a career .304 OBP; I like Marcus, but he's definitely an all-or-nothing type of player. Huff's career OBP isn't spectacular, but it is a lot better -- .342.

Huff has definitely had a sucky season, and unless he really shines over the last six weeks, I doubt we have any intention of resigning him. That said, a single A reliever, even one performing well, is a paultry pricetag.

[Liqourish]

I don't understand how this trade is anything but amazing for the Tigers. We got a solid lefty bat for a pitcher we were NEVER going to see at the big league level for Detroit.

Even if Huff is used situationally, it's a good option to have. As for Thames, Marcus is a good power hitter, but nothing else. Thames should be a situational DH, not an everyday player, and definitely not used in LF.

Guillen still can't field plays and can only bat lefty. Until he is 100%, I don't see how adding a player who can multiple positions, is going to move Guillen anywhere.

And why does Santiago have to replace Everrett in order for the trade to work again?

[Snakebites]

We got him for peanuts, so I'm certainly not about to complain about it.

Im not totally convinced he's the answer, though.

[Liqourish]

I just don't see how it was a bad move. Everyone was crying for another bat, we got one, and now people are crying because Marcus Thames might bat less and we lost a single-A Pitcher? Give me a break already.

[ajaX82]

I just don't see how it was a bad move. Everyone was crying for another bat, we got one, and now people are crying because Marcus Thames might bat less and we lost a single-A Pitcher? Give me a break already.

+ 100000

We have a mass of good pitchers in our system. Hell we just signed Turner and Oliver even to add more. Marcus will still get his swings. But he is an all or none hitter. Huff, by joining us, now leads our team in RBIs. He is a great Left handed hitter that can protect Cabrera. He also gives us defensive flexibility all over the field.

What is not to love here?

[TSE]

You gotta be kidding, TSE. You need someone to field the ball, and Polanco's as good as it gets out there. I'm with you on Everett -- I'd rather just see Santiago out there 9 games out of 10, but there's absolutely no reason to bench Placido.

One other thing you neglected to mention -- Huff is a left-handed hitter. As long as you're talking about slugging:

Thames SLG, vLHP, vRHP
Season: .554, .470
Career: .531, .477

Huff SLG, vLHP, vRHP
Season: .367, .429
Career: .421, .499

Leyland should be smart enough to use Huff as a platoon DH with the occasional spot start at third, which he has played as recently as 2008 (note that Huff has never played 2B, only corner infield and corner outfield). One might also note that Thames has a career .304 OBP; I like Marcus, but he's definitely an all-or-nothing type of player. Huff's career OBP isn't spectacular, but it is a lot better -- .342.

Huff has definitely had a sucky season, and unless he really shines over the last six weeks, I doubt we have any intention of resigning him. That said, a single A reliever, even one performing well, is a paultry pricetag.

For one, 2B is the number 1 position in the game in which defense is not important, and variances from one player to another in Field Pct are worth less than in other positions as well. Santiago is a .974 career fielder to Polanco's .99, and that's with a good deal of time that Santiago had to play SS and Polanco has not. Anyhow, if you do the math and stats, you will also find that while Polanco offers virtually no significant advantage in defense over Santiago, he is also the most overrated hitter on our team and one of the most overrated hitters in all of MLB.

Granted yes it is nice to have an extra left handed hitter though. hooray!

[TSE]

And why does Santiago have to replace Everrett in order for the trade to work again?

it's not realistic that Everett will sit, that's not why the Tigers made the move. I was saying that IF Huff could play 2B, then the trade would be ideal, because ONE - Santiago is a better hitter and better overall player than Polanco, and TWO - if Everett is out, Huff is a MUCH better hitter than Everett. It's really just wishful thinking for me because I dont believe Everett is good enough to even hold a roster spot on the Tigers as well as many other teams. He's just too ineffective of a hitter to deserve a job here. He's the #1 greatest reason why our team is not the #1 team in baseball, as he is the SINGLE WEAKEST LINK on our entire team. I'm trying to creatively invent a way for him to get no more atbats. Or if Huff can't play 2B, theoretically you could play him at 3B and have Inge play at 2B if you prefer that as well. But if you read my post you will see why I don't like the trade, so in order to make the trade a good one, you would have to have SOME plan where Everett sits, if you don't have that, you can't have a good trade IMO.

[TSE]

I just don't see how it was a bad move. Everyone was crying for another bat, we got one, and now people are crying because Marcus Thames might bat less and we lost a single-A Pitcher? Give me a break already.

+ 100000

We have a mass of good pitchers in our system. Hell we just signed Turner and Oliver even to add more. Marcus will still get his swings. But he is an all or none hitter. Huff, by joining us, now leads our team in RBIs. He is a great Left handed hitter that can protect Cabrera. He also gives us defensive flexibility all over the field.

What is not to love here?

Because, yes we have lots of pitchers, THUS the reason I'm pissed is we should be using that material to upgrade our TOP 3 TEAM WEAKNESSES: They are:

#1 - Everett - terrible hitter, and DET's weakest link
#2/3 - Polanco / Laird - good defense but not enough to compensate for weak hitting

If the Tigers made moves to shore up THOSE 3 spots, then we could have a respectable offense and be the #1 team in baseball. But those are 3 big weaknesses on our team and they are all holding us back.

I thank God for Avila that he's had a lucky hot streak to start to give them a reason to sit Laird, let's just pray that Avila can stay consistent with his early flashes of hitting skill. But really, getting an upgrade over Polanco is not near the priority as Everett, Everett's damage to this team is ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE.

[ajaX82]

OK TSE, not to be a complete jerk, but i gotta say your views on the team are, in my humble opinion, seriously off. Like really far off.

First: 2b defense is important, very important i would say. Every position on the field is important for defense and if you dont believe that than watch last years games. Ask Marlins fans what they think of somebody who doesnt play D and only hits homers (Uggla) and i dont think they would be thrilled. Have you ever watched Polanco make those crazy plays in the whole and get a guy by a step? Dude saves runs with his glove every game. Not to mention i don't remember a .273/7hr/53rbi line for a 2b being bad. He is the perfect hitter out of the 2 hole for us.

Second: Everett too plays great D and frankly has been a clutch hitter for us. I know his hitting sucks most of the time, but he isnt in there for that. He is in there for D. And he is a damn good defender and a quality clubhouse guy. I know Leyland thinks (as expressed in numerous interviews i have heard) Everett has been extremely important this year and i agree. The stat sheet doesnt tell the whole story, especially with a guy like Adam.

Third: Laird is too like Everett a poor hitter but his D has again been exceptional. He is the best throwing catcher in the league. Again, how many runs has he saved by nailing the runner at second??

Fourth: A team with all hitting and no defense is garbage. You know what team was like that? Last years team. Our infield D this year is worlds better and our team is as well. We now have three +++ quality hitters in Granderson, Cabrera and Huff. Polanco, Inge, Thames, Guillen and Thomas do what they can.

Frankly guy you want this Yankees type "every guy ready to hit a bomb" lineup and frankly thats not realistic. I love the way this team is constructed. We are built on Starting Pitching and Defense. And i wouldnt trade that for the world

[TSE]

OK TSE, not to be a complete jerk, but i gotta say your views on the team are, in my humble opinion, seriously off. Like really far off.

First: 2b defense is important, very important i would say. Every position on the field is important for defense and if you dont believe that than watch last years games. Ask Marlins fans what they think of somebody who doesnt play D and only hits homers (Uggla) and i dont think they would be thrilled. Have you ever watched Polanco make those crazy plays in the whole and get a guy by a step? Dude saves runs with his glove every game. Not to mention i don't remember a .273/7hr/53rbi line for a 2b being bad. He is the perfect hitter out of the 2 hole for us.

Second: Everett too plays great D and frankly has been a clutch hitter for us. I know his hitting sucks most of the time, but he isnt in there for that. He is in there for D. And he is a damn good defender and a quality clubhouse guy. I know Leyland thinks (as expressed in numerous interviews i have heard) Everett has been extremely important this year and i agree. The stat sheet doesnt tell the whole story, especially with a guy like Adam.

Third: Laird is too like Everett a poor hitter but his D has again been exceptional. He is the best throwing catcher in the league. Again, how many runs has he saved by nailing the runner at second??

Fourth: A team with all hitting and no defense is garbage. You know what team was like that? Last years team. Our infield D this year is worlds better and our team is as well. We now have three +++ quality hitters in Granderson, Cabrera and Huff. Polanco, Inge, Thames, Guillen and Thomas do what they can.

Frankly guy you want this Yankees type "every guy ready to hit a bomb" lineup and frankly thats not realistic. I love the way this team is constructed. We are built on Starting Pitching and Defense. And i wouldnt trade that for the world

LOL, you say 2B defense is really important, but it is not. 3B and SS are important, because the variance from top players to worst players is bigger in those areas, and they are tougher positions to play. Are you trying to play the game of everything is important? Well that's just ridiculous thinking, cause being important is a relative term, and you cant have everything important relative to everything, that's just illogical. Rank the positions, the ones at the top are more important. So yes 2B is important, but the degree to which it is important is the key thing here, and you can plug and play ANY freaking guy at 2B and the differential in his errors versus Polanco is MINISCULE compared to how if affects the game relative to differentials in batting performance or other statistical criteria.

You have failed in your estimation of Everett's defense, do the math. His advantages are not remotely close to enough to compensate for his lack of hitting. You just don't understand baseball strategy as a mathematical science and I do. You can go with your gut and think you are on to a productive counterpoint to mine, but you are never going to have the numbers agree with you in real statistical probability.

LOL, you are basing you argument on something Leyland thinks? That's your problem right there because you respect Leyland's opinions and rationale, I don't because he is a mentally unsound person, and has no logic or understanding of baseball science, and I don't mean that in the literal sense cause obviously he knows more about baseball than my grandmother, but relative to a population of brilliant baseball minds, he is below a 100 IQ in that relative group. He is inferior on the mental aspects of the game. He doesn't understand the math.

And being the best throwing catcher in the league isn't good enough if you aren't within a close enough variance of hitting.

FOURTH: This is just senseless, you really have no idea what you are talking about, you are obviously like the vast majority of the population that just likes to spit out conventional thoughts of what you think is the case for how baseball math works. It's quite the opposite. Defense in baseball versus offense in baseball is a MASSIVE advantage in favor of offense in comparison to other sports. And by defense, I'm not counting pitching, I'm talking about fielding defense. You just have to work the math calculations for yourself, and if you do, and you do them correctly, you will learn more about the game. I don't have the time to teach you how to do complex math, you either get it or you dont', and you clearly don't get it otherwise you wouldn't argue about how important defense is, and it would be a massive undertaking to try and teach you how to do advanced math over the internet.

Yankees are also doing pretty good by the way, but even they could shore up a few hitters theoretically.

[Liqourish]

Ajax is right, TSE is not.

[TSE]

Ajax is right, TSE is not.

Could you explain how?

[Liqourish]

Explain how you are wrong? Look at what you've posted. It obvious you either are letting your dislike of certain players obscure your judgement, or you really just don't know what you are talking about. Either way, your opinions of the team doesn't actually mean they are factual. In fact, you are way off base in pretty much every way so far here on this board.

[TSE]

Explain how you are wrong? Look at what you've posted. It obvious you either are letting your dislike of certain players obscure your judgement, or you really just don't know what you are talking about. Either way, your opinions of the team doesn't actually mean they are factual. In fact, you are way off base in pretty much every way so far here on this board.

I'm the last guy in the world that would let a bias or personal dislike of players cloud by objective judgment. I have no reason to not like Everett as a person, I just don't want him on my team because he is horrendous baseball player. Why am I not complaining about Cabrera? How come I'm not saying he should be replaced? The reason is because guys like Cabrera have played their way to my approval, Everett has not, his entire career he has been substandard as a baseball player overall, and that's including his defensive prowess. If you take away his defensive talents, then he goes from substandard to a category I call "sardine players" named in honor of Dane Sardinha, who is the most worthless players I have ever seen in a Tiger's uniform in my life.

So let's make this conversation a little simpler, forget about my complaints about Laird and Polanco, cause while I think lower of them as baseball players than anybody else on this board, there's no point in trying to hammer that concept in to try and change anybody's mind. I have been arguing about how overrated Polanco is as a player for a long time now and the vast majority of people are close-minded as to how that could be the case because they are inside the box thinkers that get spoonfed every day about how awesome he is by Tiger's commentators. I'm not interested in trying to take on a mass media plugging away at the converse of my argument, I am in an unfair position to try and sell that idea to the masses over this board.

So for simplicity's sake, let's just take Everett, who is the by far and away the worst of those 3 guys. Again, those 3 men are the crux of the reason that we are NOT the best team in baseball. So if we could ONLY replace one, that is head and shoulders going to be Everett.

Are you trying to say that Everett is a good baseball player? To me he is not worth holding a roster spot on this team, he is so abysmal it is disgusting. Even as just a defensive replacement I wouldn't keep him on the roster. However if he played for a minimum salary I admit that I would potentially change my mind on that and give him a roster spot SOLELY as a defensive replacement value, but his time for even that would be very limited as it wouldn't take long to find backup SSs that are too attractive to not share time with Santiago. So forget about the complexity of this Huff trade in conjunction with having to replace Polanco and Laird. I would be willing to settle for a simple change of Santiago for Everett and call it a day. If Santiago could take every atbat for Everett for the rest of the season, we will be a better team, however we won't be the best team in baseball, but we will at least close the gap some.