2017-18 OFF-SEASON

[Quake Griffin]

Btw.

Might be bro science. Maybe my eyes are warped but I’d like to see **** and Verdugo in a foot race since the topic of Verdugo’s speed is on the table.


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[Neddy]

We don't need Joc hitting 7th and have him hitting 220 to 240 we need someone to get on base at the bottom of the lineup so Barnes and Taylor get chances to get hits with peogle on base instead of always hitting with the bases empty.

you do realize Joc's main bread and butter is his on base percentage? his career OBP is .345. that's better than Juan Pierre who was a career leadoff hitter.

[Neddy]

Alex's foot speed was only a concern if we were hoping for a center fielder out of him. as a LFer, he is already faster then Andre. no problem with the left fielder Alex.

remember, Joc was a perennial 30 SB guy in the minors, it's hard to steal in the majors.

[Neddy]

and as i said before, Joc's days as a dodger is numbered, but it would be wise to hang on to him at least until Seager is back healthy from his elbow surgery. CT3 will probably man up the SS for awhile.

[CF55]

Alex's foot speed was only a concern if we were hoping for a center fielder out of him. as a LFer, he is already faster then Andre. no problem with the left fielder Alex.

remember, Joc was a perennial 30 SB guy in the minors, it's hard to steal in the majors.

Not talking about steals he lost some range in the OF then from his rookie season. Joc is a fun player but his ability to be consistent and productive isn't their. If we keep him I hope he proves me wrong but we've been waiting 3 years.

Also is Surgery confirmed for Seager? I haven't seen hes having surgery as a lock any where. If so I would still trade Pederson this off-season regardless of where CT opens the season 2B SS or CF. Joc shouldn't be a regular on our team if he's still with us.

[Quake Griffin]

Does anybody think this front office is going to let Yu walk?


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[Neddy]

Does anybody think this front office is going to let Yu walk?


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depends on the cost. he is exactly where Greinke was a couple of years ago. we are not signing a 31 year old to a 7 year, near 200. if Yu is willing to sign for less than 5, we can talk but I doubt his agents will allow that to happen. Yu made considerably less than his talent deserved in his prime due to coming over to US under the old rules, where the Rangers had to pay his old team 50 million just to negotiate with him. someone is gonna pay, perhaps the Cubs, Cardinals, even the Giants although they will have to get under from at least one of Cueto/Shark deals to make that happen.

I know Ohtani is a long shot, armed with just 300,000 dollars ( is that figure correct, Ranma?) for signing bonus, but even without the great Shohei in the fold, we still got a ton of pitching, both in the majors and down in the minors as well as DL.

if we do sign Yu back tho, I would much prefer to keep the kids down in the minors for a full season with a strict care for their pitch count and full rests beween starts. both Buehler an Urias are young and their shoulders not fully developed. if we don't need them for the regular season, then there really is no reason to tax them. coast them along and possibly used them for the pen comes October.

perhaps keeping Yu might give an advantage of signing Ohtani, since Yu was the Nippon Ham's ace before Ohtani got there and both idolized Hideo Nomo in dodger blue uniform.

[Neddy]

PS- man I miss that old pitching squad from the mid 90s...
Ramon
Nomo
Park
Valdez
Candiotti
Astacio
Worrell
Driefort
Guthrie
Osuna

you guys remember MIke Fetters and his hilarious game face?

we didn't win anything outside of ROYs and division titles back then and never got out of the first round, but we've had a real entertaining team back then. what a colorful set of characters we've had, including Kevin Brown in the later part of 90s.

[Neddy]

Alex's foot speed was only a concern if we were hoping for a center fielder out of him. as a LFer, he is already faster then Andre. no problem with the left fielder Alex.

remember, Joc was a perennial 30 SB guy in the minors, it's hard to steal in the majors.

Not talking about steals he lost some range in the OF then from his rookie season. Joc is a fun player but his ability to be consistent and productive isn't their. If we keep him I hope he proves me wrong but we've been waiting 3 years.

Also is Surgery confirmed for Seager? I haven't seen hes having surgery as a lock any where. If so I would still trade Pederson this off-season regardless of where CT opens the season 2B SS or CF. Joc shouldn't be a regular on our team if he's still with us.

Joc's departure is inevitable, but selling him now would bring very little in return. better to let him have some consistent at bats to build on from his WS showing as a center fielder which brings up the value, then sell him high when Seager is back and CT3 is a full time CFer. even if Joc screws up, his trade value could not be any less at that point. we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by hanging on to him a little longer.

unless of course, there is a team out there right now that wants him badly and willing to give up value to get him. the issue I see is tho, a team in a desperate need of a LFer as we speak right now, happens to be the enemy up the I-5.

[Neddy]

Btw.

Might be bro science. Maybe my eyes are warped but I’d like to see **** and Verdugo in a foot race since the topic of Verdugo’s speed is on the table.


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**** has come a long way.

here is his Astros days scouting report as a teen
https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2010/8/19/1631330/astros-prospect-profile-kike

his biggest weakness then, was his throwing arm and his defense. something doesn't sound quite right anymore, does it? but speed wise, neither are rabbits around the basepath. just has to be considerably faster than Gonzo if you are gonna make a living as a singles and occasional doubles hitter. I suppose if there is a team other than the Mariners ( for fan appreciation and sentimental values) willing to give Ichiro a shot as a regular or a 4th OFer, Alex surely has a chance. but for any youngster, they need to play everyday. if Verdugo is going to be in the majors come 2018, he needs to play LF with at least 400 at bats. with Toles and Thompson returning tho, that could be challenging. I still do think Verdugo has higher upside than Toles, but Toles bring more at this point of their respective careers for the team need. then again, both could be gone and we may sign JD Martinez just to weaken the D Backs lineup a little and trade out Toles and Verdugo.

like Quake quoted of our front office, there is no hard rules when it comes to roster building with Andrew and Co.

[Neddy]

haha the Giants are financially screwed, now that as expected, Johnny is gonna sit and collect 4 more years of paychecks from them. Johnny is gonna get real comfortable up there, the new Panda of the pitching staff!

MadBum - 12 milion
Shark - 19 million
Moore - 9 million
Blach - rookie scale
Cain - retired

Johnny on the spot - 22 million X 4 more years. he is gonna be the worst pitcher advances stat wise that will make the highest pay, a la Barry Zito.

can't wait to see him and his 1.4 plus WHIP on the mound through our C boy's prime! a lot of balls are gonna make a water landing by the San Francisco Bay.

[Quake Griffin]

Well.

Vin Scully just disappointed me. I will never view him the same again.


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[Neddy]

BTW, Pirates paying 14.5 million for the Captain Cutch, looks to me a ploy for a trade package. with little assets the Bucks have and top prospects so far not panning out, they probably couldn't lose McCutchen without anything in return. and they have a need at catching with two straight years of Cervelli hitting below the league average when they still owe him 22 million for the next 2 years.
for a small market team like the Pirates, that is a huge commitment.

say, McCutchen and all of Cervelli's owed money for Joc and Grandal?

they save 25 million right away for 2018 payroll and get to dump Francisco's below average bat and in return, get cheaper replacements for both positions of need.

we get a power right handed outfield to pair up with abundant lefty outfielders we have and get a seriously reliable backup catcher behind Austin. with the captain being on a 1 year deal, wonder if we can gauge them of some prospects along the way? unless of course they eat some of Cervelli's money but I am certain they can't afford to do so. Pirates are very right handed and depleted, even if Kang Jung Ho makes it back after this DUI issues. Joc's power and high OBP can help them. Grandal being a switch hitter, as streaky as he is, will still make their heart of the order more imposing.

[Neddy]

Well.

Vin Scully just disappointed me. I will never view him the same again.


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yeah, I just saw that too.

[Neddy]

BTW it looks like this morning was about my long hung over rants physically transforming into sentences here in dodger forum. LOL.

[CF55]

BTW, Pirates paying 14.5 million for the Captain Cutch, looks to me a ploy for a trade package. with little assets the Bucks have and top prospects so far not panning out, they probably couldn't lose McCutchen without anything in return. and they have a need at catching with two straight years of Cervelli hitting below the league average when they still owe him 22 million for the next 2 years.
for a small market team like the Pirates, that is a huge commitment.

say, McCutchen and all of Cervelli's owed money for Joc and Grandal?

they save 25 million right away for 2018 payroll and get to dump Francisco's below average bat and in return, get cheaper replacements for both positions of need.

we get a power right handed outfield to pair up with abundant lefty outfielders we have and get a seriously reliable backup catcher behind Austin. with the captain being on a 1 year deal, wonder if we can gauge them of some prospects along the way? unless of course they eat some of Cervelli's money but I am certain they can't afford to do so. Pirates are very right handed and depleted, even if Kang Jung Ho makes it back after this DUI issues. Joc's power and high OBP can help them. Grandal being a switch hitter, as streaky as he is, will still make their heart of the order more imposing.

I would pass on McCutchen didnt want him last season dont want him now. We need pitchers and younger players not a post prime McCutchen and wouldnt want the team to spend money on McCutchen when he's a luxary not a need. P is the biggest need we are losing Darvish and possibly Morrow and Watson out of the Bullpen. Dont need to add someone who is going to be hitting 6th or 7th when P is the biggest need. Cutch isnt a game changer at this point esp with his declining defensive skills. Not to mention Pirates dont need an OF they have Marte, Polanco and Austin Meadows who is a top prospect. Trade doesn't make much sense for us or them imho.

[Neddy]

BTW, Pirates paying 14.5 million for the Captain Cutch, looks to me a ploy for a trade package. with little assets the Bucks have and top prospects so far not panning out, they probably couldn't lose McCutchen without anything in return. and they have a need at catching with two straight years of Cervelli hitting below the league average when they still owe him 22 million for the next 2 years.
for a small market team like the Pirates, that is a huge commitment.

say, McCutchen and all of Cervelli's owed money for Joc and Grandal?

they save 25 million right away for 2018 payroll and get to dump Francisco's below average bat and in return, get cheaper replacements for both positions of need.

we get a power right handed outfield to pair up with abundant lefty outfielders we have and get a seriously reliable backup catcher behind Austin. with the captain being on a 1 year deal, wonder if we can gauge them of some prospects along the way? unless of course they eat some of Cervelli's money but I am certain they can't afford to do so. Pirates are very right handed and depleted, even if Kang Jung Ho makes it back after this DUI issues. Joc's power and high OBP can help them. Grandal being a switch hitter, as streaky as he is, will still make their heart of the order more imposing.

I would pass on McCutchen didnt want him last season dont want him now. We need pitchers and younger players not a post prime McCutchen and wouldnt want the team to spend money on McCutchen when he's a luxary not a need. P is the biggest need we are losing Darvish and possibly Morrow and Watson out of the Bullpen. Dont need to add someone who is going to be hitting 6th or 7th when P is the biggest need. Cutch isnt a game changer at this point esp with his declining defensive skills. Not to mention Pirates dont need an OF they have Marte, Polanco and Austin Meadows who is a top prospect. Trade doesn't make much sense for us or them imho.

fair point,
but you are not gonna get a young high ceiling player near MLB by trading Joc alone, and packing him with Grandal still limits which teams would be interested in, as Grandal's arbitration numbers could impact low budget minded teams. young pitching prospects are always at premium, and especially the ones in AA/AAA. if you start dipping into a A ball or Rookie league prospects, it doesn't help us for the 2018 season's run at the ring.

where do you see a possibility of a pitching in return for any deal packaged around Joc? I have a hard time seeing that one. there will be teams who want to take a gamble at this power bat from the left side, but at this point most scouts around MLB knows Joc is a corner outfielder. he is still very young, and as I have mentioned, a very good OBP guy. but nobody is gonna give up a decent pitching prospects or major league level quality arms.
it is just much easier to ask for aging vets and their ballooned salaries from small market teams, thus what we lose isn't much and their contracts rather short, and the small market teams save some face by bringing youthful players and a player of position in need at catching who led the entire MLB in catcher's ERA and known as one of the top framers today.
we are not losing much as it seems unanimous that Austin has Yaz beat, and Joc is probably gonna be relegated to being a lefty platoon player and a pinch hitter once our roster is full.

McCutchen idea is just an example, but a similar type of exchanging our spare parts for high salary vet from a small market team is most likely.

can we dream of Grandal+Joc for Stanton? lol they sure are selling!

[Neddy]

I mentioned before, but the team in most dire need for an outfield offense is the Giants. but I doubt we/they would deal with each other.

the Royals would be another destination as they are losing their star players to free agency and got one Jorge Soler under a good deal until 2020. but in 2017, he couldn't get out of slump and was hitting .144 with 110 PAs. they probably can gamble on Joc.

doubt it but if we can get say, Richard Lovelady out of Joc trade, that would be a steal. love that kid's fastball, but even just the name sake.

[CF55]

BTW, Pirates paying 14.5 million for the Captain Cutch, looks to me a ploy for a trade package. with little assets the Bucks have and top prospects so far not panning out, they probably couldn't lose McCutchen without anything in return. and they have a need at catching with two straight years of Cervelli hitting below the league average when they still owe him 22 million for the next 2 years.
for a small market team like the Pirates, that is a huge commitment.

say, McCutchen and all of Cervelli's owed money for Joc and Grandal?

they save 25 million right away for 2018 payroll and get to dump Francisco's below average bat and in return, get cheaper replacements for both positions of need.

we get a power right handed outfield to pair up with abundant lefty outfielders we have and get a seriously reliable backup catcher behind Austin. with the captain being on a 1 year deal, wonder if we can gauge them of some prospects along the way? unless of course they eat some of Cervelli's money but I am certain they can't afford to do so. Pirates are very right handed and depleted, even if Kang Jung Ho makes it back after this DUI issues. Joc's power and high OBP can help them. Grandal being a switch hitter, as streaky as he is, will still make their heart of the order more imposing.

I would pass on McCutchen didnt want him last season dont want him now. We need pitchers and younger players not a post prime McCutchen and wouldnt want the team to spend money on McCutchen when he's a luxary not a need. P is the biggest need we are losing Darvish and possibly Morrow and Watson out of the Bullpen. Dont need to add someone who is going to be hitting 6th or 7th when P is the biggest need. Cutch isnt a game changer at this point esp with his declining defensive skills. Not to mention Pirates dont need an OF they have Marte, Polanco and Austin Meadows who is a top prospect. Trade doesn't make much sense for us or them imho.

fair point,
but you are not gonna get a young high ceiling player near MLB by trading Joc alone, and packing him with Grandal still limits which teams would be interested in, as Grandal's arbitration numbers could impact low budget minded teams. young pitching prospects are always at premium, and especially the ones in AA/AAA. if you start dipping into a A ball or Rookie league prospects, it doesn't help us for the 2018 season's run at the ring.

where do you see a possibility of a pitching in return for any deal packaged around Joc? I have a hard time seeing that one. there will be teams who want to take a gamble at this power bat from the left side, but at this point most scouts around MLB knows Joc is a corner outfielder. he is still very young, and as I have mentioned, a very good OBP guy. but nobody is gonna give up a decent pitching prospects or major league level quality arms.
it is just much easier to ask for aging vets and their ballooned salaries from small market teams, thus what we lose isn't much and their contracts rather short, and the small market teams save some face by bringing youthful players and a player of position in need at catching who led the entire MLB in catcher's ERA and known as one of the top framers today.
we are not losing much as it seems unanimous that Austin has Yaz beat, and Joc is probably gonna be relegated to being a lefty platoon player and a pinch hitter once our roster is full.

McCutchen idea is just an example, but a similar type of exchanging our spare parts for high salary vet from a small market team is most likely.

can we dream of Grandal+Joc for Stanton? lol they sure are selling!

I wouldn't touch Stantons contract at all. It literally might be the worst contract in baseball an AL team should pick him up and pray by the second half of the contract the bat still plays enough for him to DH. Keep in mind Stanton likely just had his best season offensivley there is no going upwards for him its going to start going down hill.

Some teams like the Brewers could conceivably give up an arm for Grandal. They just had Hader and Woodruff debut last season and have Ortiz on the way. I could see the Brewers parting with someone like Burns in a package for Grandal who is a C who provides pop and on base skills. As for Joc I'm sure an AL team would consider moving a P who hasn't lived up to expectations for Joc in a change of scenery trade.

If I'm the Dodgers I'm spending on pitchers. We have big bats we can fill in the holes on offense on way or another no reason to spend big on a bat. We turned Turner into a star, Taylor is looking like a star, Toles produced for us in 16. We seem to pull production out of no where on offense but our pitching on the other hand has let us down in the playoffs on way or another for 6 years. Kersh in some cases, Greinke, Every reliever even Jansen this past season cause of over use. We had McCarthy and Fields sitting in the pen being useless. Next year I wanna see a team with 4 starters we can count on and a bullpen deep enough that everyone isn't dead by the middle of the WS.

[Neddy]

I would pass on McCutchen didnt want him last season dont want him now. We need pitchers and younger players not a post prime McCutchen and wouldnt want the team to spend money on McCutchen when he's a luxary not a need. P is the biggest need we are losing Darvish and possibly Morrow and Watson out of the Bullpen. Dont need to add someone who is going to be hitting 6th or 7th when P is the biggest need. Cutch isnt a game changer at this point esp with his declining defensive skills. Not to mention Pirates dont need an OF they have Marte, Polanco and Austin Meadows who is a top prospect. Trade doesn't make much sense for us or them imho.

fair point,
but you are not gonna get a young high ceiling player near MLB by trading Joc alone, and packing him with Grandal still limits which teams would be interested in, as Grandal's arbitration numbers could impact low budget minded teams. young pitching prospects are always at premium, and especially the ones in AA/AAA. if you start dipping into a A ball or Rookie league prospects, it doesn't help us for the 2018 season's run at the ring.

where do you see a possibility of a pitching in return for any deal packaged around Joc? I have a hard time seeing that one. there will be teams who want to take a gamble at this power bat from the left side, but at this point most scouts around MLB knows Joc is a corner outfielder. he is still very young, and as I have mentioned, a very good OBP guy. but nobody is gonna give up a decent pitching prospects or major league level quality arms.
it is just much easier to ask for aging vets and their ballooned salaries from small market teams, thus what we lose isn't much and their contracts rather short, and the small market teams save some face by bringing youthful players and a player of position in need at catching who led the entire MLB in catcher's ERA and known as one of the top framers today.
we are not losing much as it seems unanimous that Austin has Yaz beat, and Joc is probably gonna be relegated to being a lefty platoon player and a pinch hitter once our roster is full.

McCutchen idea is just an example, but a similar type of exchanging our spare parts for high salary vet from a small market team is most likely.

can we dream of Grandal+Joc for Stanton? lol they sure are selling!

I wouldn't touch Stantons contract at all. It literally might be the worst contract in baseball an AL team should pick him up and pray by the second half of the contract the bat still plays enough for him to DH. Keep in mind Stanton likely just had his best season offensivley there is no going upwards for him its going to start going down hill.

Some teams like the Brewers could conceivably give up an arm for Grandal. They just had Hader and Woodruff debut last season and have Ortiz on the way. I could see the Brewers parting with someone like Burns in a package for Grandal who is a C who provides pop and on base skills. As for Joc I'm sure an AL team would consider moving a P who hasn't lived up to expectations for Joc in a change of scenery trade.

If I'm the Dodgers I'm spending on pitchers. We have big bats we can fill in the holes on offense on way or another no reason to spend big on a bat. We turned Turner into a star, Taylor is looking like a star, Toles produced for us in 16. We seem to pull production out of no where on offense but our pitching on the other hand has let us down in the playoffs on way or another for 6 years. Kersh in some cases, Greinke, Every reliever even Jansen this past season cause of over use. We had McCarthy and Fields sitting in the pen being useless. Next year I wanna see a team with 4 starters we can count on and a bullpen deep enough that everyone isn't dead by the middle of the WS.

Stanton's deal may look atrocity of a mismanagement of Jeffry the Scum Loria, but by the end of that deal, with the rate of baseball salary inflation, it would look more like what we just paid Andre Ethier this season. and he has yet to turn 28 ( will in 3 days ). his prime and peak is right now, and probably the next 3 years or so until he starts regressing. it would be worth the risk for Stanton not opting out in 2020. Im betting he will tho, unless some major disaster happens from now til then, power hitters don't suddenly stop hitting homeruns when they turn 31 unless your name is Ryan Howard.

asking for Stanton is obviously a pie in the sky, as Marlins are not going to want Grandal's arbitration dollars on their payroll. but to not want to add one of the best talents in all baseball at all, would not benefit the team. besides, it's Guggenheim that is paying the bill, not any of us. tickets and parking prices will always go up regardless of the players' salary anyhow.


as for the "change of scenary" type of veteran bullpen arms, guys that fit that description are Carlos Torres, Oliver Drake, and Wily Peralta. I don't think any of this trio is salvageable.

if we can run off with say, Josh Hader, I would be 100% behind it but doubt that one too. but the Brewers have Pina and Vogt behind the plate hitting at least league average, not sure if the Brewers need Grandal's bat all that much. but I could see a scenario where they trade for Grandal while dumping their own arbitration eligible Vogt. Pina is the starter and is making the league minimum. I suppose they can split time, but Manny hit .279 with .751 OPS. not sure if they would want to spend money they don't need to spend on for 0.010 points improvement on OPS at catching position.

Grandal for probably one of the idiot trio I mentioned before and Vogt returning is likely scenario from this particular mental exercise. if Yaz's defensive values are the selling point, as he is the 5th best among catchers with at least 200 at bats in 2017, you have to consider that Manny Pina was the 6th best.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=200&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

I don't see this one.