2017 REGULAR SEASON LA Dodgers & international

Neddy · Post #1241 » by **Neddy** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:01 am

used to think Dave was a good manager and I stuck through many of his questionable calls, but you don't pull your starter with just 1 more out to go for him to have a chance at W when at this point of the season, it is fairly innocuous and somewhat meaningless. when the game is on the line and there is little damage a L could do for you, you stick with the guy who got you there for him to have a chance at W. at least that is how i was raised in baseball culture. you pull a guy prematurely to win, okay I can take that, but how the F do you let a lesser reliever stay in against the opposing team's heart of the order with two runners on and nobody out? :banghead:

Neddy · Post #1242 » by **Neddy** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:03 am

this is not the way I was raised in baseball. one way of thinking is that, a one way. but the other way has to have a logic behind. this game had no consistent logic behind Dave's moves. Dave is looking no better than the clueless face of Don Mattingly. my god I miss Tommy.

Ranma · Post #1243 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:28 am

I get what you're saying, Neddy, but I think Dave was trying to win the game at that point, which I applaud him for. He seemed to start doing the tryouts-for-postseason-roster after we gave up the 3-run jack. Ryu certainly gave an admirable performance against the dominant Strasburg tonight, but Stripling eventually got us out of the inning.

I've been perturbed with Dave's managing during the losing streak and his continued use of Granderson is aggravating, but I'm not going to go as far as to call him Mattingly. Even with the Granderson situation, I get what he's trying to do. The Dodgers apparently have a need for a LFer and they clearly want Granderson to win the job, so they're giving him as many at-bats it takes to get his groove back. Personally, I don't like it, but I get it now. I still think Barnes and **** deserve opportunities to be regulars.

The ESPN commentators made a good point that a 4th starter will get 1 game per series, so maybe Wood would be more valuable as a relief arm, however, his lacking velocity of late mitigates that value. I think Ryu currently has a solid case to be the 4th starter for the playoffs right now, so I'm not sure taking him out early hurts his chances too much. I'm not saying he's the favorite, but he's definitely made a case for himself.

Ranma · Post #1244 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:37 am

I know the Dodgers have had some success this season taking advantage of the market inefficiency of high-strike pitches, but it seems like other teams have caught up in making adjustments. Take the Nationals tonight. Our opponents were feasting on the high pitches all during the latter half of the game and we've been missing targets high and outside the strike zone without drawing swings.

I hope our front office is providing updated analytics and plans of adjustment to be implemented.

Quake Griffin · Post #1245 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:26 am

Team Neddy on this one.

I don't trust Dave anymore either.
I believe Baez will be in in October. I think Ross will get high leverage situations. I think Curtis will make our postseason roster even if he doesn't get another hit this year.

I did trust him 3 weeks ago.
Smfh

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Quake Griffin · Post #1246 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:55 pm

Ranma wrote:The ESPN commentators made a good point that a 4th starter will get 1 game per series, so maybe Wood would be more valuable as a relief arm, however, his lacking velocity of late mitigates that value. I think Ryu currently has a solid case to be the 4th starter for the playoffs right now, so I'm not sure taking him out early hurts his chances too much. I'm not saying he's the favorite, but he's definitely made a case for himself.

This is not necessarily true for the Dodgers.

If we are down 2-1 in the DS, Kershaw is starting.

Ranma · Post #1247 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:38 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:This is not necessarily true for the Dodgers.

If we are down 2-1 in the DS, Kershaw is starting.

Unfortunately, you're right. What I should have said was that the 4th starter would get 1 start per series at most.

Ranma · Post #1248 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:58 pm

One of the reasons why I've been hard on Roberts during our extended losing streak was because he didn't put our players and team in a position to succeed. This is why I was fine with him pulling Ryu. Hyun-Jin did an excellent job of keeping us in the game, but to me, it was clear he was not able to get that last out in the 5th inning without giving up a run. It sucks that it took him out of consideration for a win, but that would have happened anyway.

I get that there are times to give players a chance to gut it out, but given the circumstances, I can't fault Dave for the decision. I tend to favor old school approaches myself, though I've been soured on Tommy Lasora's thinking over the years. Lasorda's win-now mentality led us to trading away Pedro for DeShields. Our forward-thinking front office wants to get away from traditional and antiquated approaches, but that doesn't mean there's not a place for going old school at times either.

It will be a challenge to determine when to use the more new age thinking versus the old school one, but I'm going with a simple rule of thumb of putting the players and team in the best position to succeed.

At the same time, my trust in Roberts has certainly diminished at this point.

Ranma · Post #1249 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:26 pm

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Ranma · Post #1250 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:33 pm

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Ranma · Post #1251 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:53 pm

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Ranma · Post #1252 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:55 pm

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Ranma · Post #1253 » by **Ranma** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:59 pm

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Neddy · Post #1254 » by **Neddy** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:42 am

Ranma wrote:One of the reasons why I've been hard on Roberts during our extended losing streak was because he didn't put our players and team in a position to succeed. This is why I was fine with him pulling Ryu. Hyun-Jin did an excellent job of keeping us in the game, but to me, it was clear he was not able to get that last out in the 5th inning without giving up a run. It sucks that it took him out of consideration for a win, but that would have happened anyway.

I get that there are times to give players a chance to gut it out, but given the circumstances, I can't fault Dave for the decision. I tend to favor old school approaches myself, though I've been soured on Tommy Lasora's thinking over the years. Lasorda's win-now mentality led us to trading away Pedro for DeShields. Our forward-thinking front office wants to get away from traditional and antiquated approaches, but that doesn't mean there's not a place for going old school at times either.

It will be a challenge to determine when to use the more new age thinking versus the old school one, but I'm going with a simple rule of thumb of putting the players and team in the best position to succeed.

At the same time, my trust in Roberts has certainly diminished at this point.

now that I have spent a full day to think about it, I am calmed down a little. just a little, not a lot but I do get the logic from Dave's perspective... not in conjunction of the two moves but separately and independently.

Ryu's pitch count was high. it was 98, I believe. he did have his spot skipped once, so there was no issue going past 100, probably would have been fine going into 110. but Ryu is still coming off a major surgery. it is the field manager's job not only to secure wins, but to protect the players. from that regard, the same way he pulled Hill from a potential perfect game last season, and Ross from his rookie debut perfect 7 innings.

independently, I also get giving someone like Ross a chance even with two on, no out. he is auditioning Ross for a high leverage relief role for the post season. I get it.

but the two moves together, still makes little sense. extra 5 pitches would not have hurt Ryu much. if he couldn't get Werth out, then yeah he gives up a run on a single, two on a double, and 3 on a HR. well? that last option is what we ended up giving up for leaving Ross in there too long. we also have other pitchers on our current 40 men active roster who could audition for that situation, including, wait for it.... Baez. (Quake's head explodes) I honestly think Ross doesn't deserve to be on the playoff roster. with back to 25 divisional series roster, with 4 starters we can have 12 men pitching crew and not lose any on our relief squad. that means 8 relievers.
1. CP Jansen. no brainer
2. SU Morrow. at this time he is our unanimously voted 8th inning guy
3. SU Watson. since coming over, he has posted 1.0 whip.
4. SU Fields.
5. MR Avilan. he deserves it more than everybody else in the bullpen other than the already mentioned. his FIP is below 3.00
6. LR Maeda. he is just flat out better than Ross
7. LR Wood. I pegged him for a starter role, but Ranma has convinced me that with his second half of the season issues, this is better.

that leaves the last bullpen piece to be added to the roster. it will come down between Ross Vs Baez Vs Walker Vs Stewart. we know it is Walker's job to lose, and if he does, it is Baez that will make it IMO. so either way, there was no room for Ross to begin with, so why give him such a high leverage spot to audition for?

Quake Griffin · Post #1255 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:59 am

Like I said.

Kershaw is not sharp and we need to stop talking about him like he is.

He's not even getting deep into games.

Unbelievable watching him give up that grand slam at this point of our season

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Ranma · Post #1256 » by **Ranma** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:11 am

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Quake Griffin · Post #1257 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:19 am

What was bad about the pitch?

The call or the execution?
Im watching MNF with Blue on in the background.

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Ranma · Post #1258 » by **Ranma** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:29 am

Quake Griffin wrote:What was bad about the pitch?

The call or the execution?
Im watching MNF with Blue on in the background.

I had the sound off at the time while listening to a Dodgers Digest podcast, but I glanced over and I think he left the pitch up and in the zone, which surprised me since he had a really sharp slider a pitch or two before that, which generated a bad swing from the batter. Daniel Brim confirmed as much with his reply to Chad Moriyama's tweet. I didn't pay enough attention to see if it was a pitch call by Barnes, but it totally looks like a bad execution of a pitch the moment it left his hand.

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Quake Griffin · Post #1259 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:45 am

GranderGOAT!!!!111

Finally did something.

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Quake Griffin · Post #1260 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:49 am

Annoying loss.

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