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2015/16 Offseason: More active than Shakira's hips

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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#181 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:12 am

Quake Griffin wrote:lol, my post a long way of saying that it was official. my fault. I'll be more clear next time

6 years for 195.
nothnx.

Enjoy him Arizona.


ah, my bad for not paying attention. should have checked newsfeed after your innuendo filled post.
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#182 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:13 am

Rosenthal saying it could be upwards of $206 million.

That makes me feel really good about him leaving.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#183 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 3:03 am

what is that? 34.3 mil per year? I think we might be able to squeeze Cueto AND Maeda in for that kinda price.
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#184 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 3:43 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Rosenthal saying it could be upwards of $206 million.

That makes me feel really good about him leaving.


from what I heard it's 206.5 to be exact.
ehhhhh f it.
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Recap via Tweets 

Post#185 » by Ranma » Sat Dec 5, 2015 7:56 am

Nightengale is off by half a million dollars in the cumulative dollar figure but he notes that there is no buyout and I presume there is also no opt-out clause (who would opt out?). Greinke got his desired AAV with a 6th guaranteed year in a retirement contract with a lot of deferred money. It's fitting that the retirement community in Arizona was the team that handed him that deal. Stark makes a witty remark about how the D-Backs swam in our pool years after we jumped in theirs. Touche.

I'm glad the Dodgers held firm in not caving and giving in on that 6th year and relieved we weren't the ones to give him this insane contract. While I think he has a chance to pitch similar to Maddux into his 40's, I wasn't at all looking forward to repeating the mistake of the Kevin Brown contract. As an added bonus, he didn't go to the Giants, although I have to say that Greinke's addition to the Diamondbacks' offense pushes them closer to contender status and they're reportedly looking at adding another pitcher with Mike Leake associated with such talks.

I'm sure the Dodgers have a contingency plan with multiple options in trades and other free-agent pursuits, but my concern is what assets we would have to now give up in order to follow through on such plans.


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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#186 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:48 am

can someone explain the concept of deferments/ deferred value in his contract?
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Deal(s) in the Works 

Post#187 » by Ranma » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:49 am

Since the guy with insider sources was right on the money with Greinke signing with the D-Backs, I thought I'd highlight some of his latest comments below. Apparently, the Dodgers have at least a multi-team trade they're contemplating. Per the comments I didn't cite, it doesn't sound like things will get done until the winter meetings, if at all.

I stated earlier in the off-season that I only wanted elite free-agent pitchers and not committing long-term to decent pitchers given the amount of arms we have ready and possibly close to ready in the starting rotation. Yeah, there are question marks, but we just lost an ace, so I would like to sign an ace to replace him. Cueto is the only viable candidate left but I also don't want to give him an exorbitant deal either since we'd possibly bypass one dangerous deal just for another with a lower payoff. I know...can beggars really be choosers? Like Neddy noted earlier in this thread, we're not exactly destitute in that department either.

Ryu and McCarthy are both on the mend and aren't anticipated to be ready until around mid-season. We still have Anderson and Wood who should make solid #3 and #4 starters in whatever order. Plus, we have Bolsinger, Weiland, and Lee to give a shot at the 5th starter spot. Obviously, we have a hole in the #2 slot right after Kershaw and, given the question marks surrounding the rotation as is, I can see the organization wanting to add a 2nd acquisition in the pursuit for pitching.

I think Maeda is fine, but he feels like a Mike Leake, who I'm also not against having. However, I also just don't feel compelled to go after either. It's also not like I'm biased against Asian imports for pitching (batting/position players is another matter) since I've advocated for both Yu Darvish and Masahiro Tanaka in the past. While I was gung-ho for Darvish, I only wanted Tanaka up to a point, which is why I was fine with losing out on him.

In any case, I'm hopeful in pursuing Cueto to be the 2nd ace in the rotation. There's some appeal to Samardzija and Iwakuma, but either would require giving up our first-round pick, which isn't worth it to me.

We've been involved with talks for Shelby Miller, but the Braves are asking for the moon and don't seem to really be shopping him. I wonder if the multi-team trade the Dodgers have lined up involves either the Mets and Indians, who both have arms available, but the price for young arms under control is rather expensive.

Also, the aforementioned source previously noted that the Yankees offered Andrew Miller and Michael Pineda for Jose DeLeon and other prospects with the Dodgers front office getting back to them later. I personally don't like that deal and I'm even talking myself out of Aroldis Chapman given the anticipated price tag. While I'd love to have Chapman, he's 1 year away from free agency. I'd rather take my chances going after him as an FA pursuit next off-season than give up assets to rent him. The Dodgers have also reportedly offered the most money for O'Day, but apparently it's not enough since he looks to be staying East.

With regards to relief pitchers, I think we almost have enough arms for the upcoming season, so I would pursue Seung-Hwan Oh aggressively and get involved with the Rays in talks for Jake McGee since his name has been making the rounds this hot stove season.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/Dodgers/status/672966554623995904[/tweet]

idnt-h8urteam via DodgersDigest.com comments
My cell phone is blowing up.

Dodgers won't be offseason losers. Trying for something big themselves through trade. I'm trying to get the gist of the trade before i post it.

Still chasing the Dodger's counterpunch. I will report when I can get all the details.

According to one source I spoke to earlier, the Dodgers felt that they were better off going with a multi-team trade deal they had instead of going with the Greinke deal.

I'm not sure who's involved in this deal.

This source is connected to the Dodger FO and he's has not return my text.

Yeah, he sounded like the Dodgers would be better off going with the trade. I don't know what to think though.

He never gave me any details, so I don't know. Just knowing this person though I would have to say pretty big (an 8) if he has not returned my text for like 3 hours now.

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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#188 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 9:14 am

Quake Griffin wrote:can someone explain the concept of deferments/ deferred value in his contract?

^
Help me out Ranma.



And I've always thought our team would be trying to work some kind of complex trade….
I'll be honest. I don't want Cueto and I don't expect Cueto.
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Deferred Money (Updated) 

Post#189 » by Ranma » Sat Dec 5, 2015 9:37 am

Quake Griffin wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:can someone explain the concept of deferments/ deferred value in his contract?

^
Help me out Ranma.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/672977970420719616[/tweet]


Edit: I just saw Heyman's tweet above, so I went ahead and updated the deferred payment structure to reflect his report.

I'm not exactly a financial wiz or anything but here's my attempt at an explanation. Feel free to ask questions. Hopefully, I'll be able to clarify without giving you misinformation.

From my understanding, deferred money is money that is paid after the years in the playing contract. Think of it kind of like the option for either a lump sum amount or annual payments in lotto winnings. Instead of getting all the money upfront, it is spread out over additional years. Differences include that, unlike the lotto, the overall principal amount paid out doesn't change. Plus, obviously the lump sum amount is paid all at once in a single transaction whereas Greinke's playing contract is paid out over 6 years (not including deferment). Teams do this in order to lessen the payroll burden for particular fiscal years in order to sign other players and/or divert the resources elsewhere.

The accountants also tend to make more money off interest and investments by having cash on hand instead of paying it all out at once to Greinke. The D-Backs deferred and diluted the payroll burden by paying out the $60 million in installments at later dates, which likely also includes interest payments to Greinke as well. And all this obviously helps with lowering the luxury tax bill on payroll by spreading out the overall salary amount into smaller pieces to be accounted for over 11 years instead of a condensed 6 years.

The $60 million deferred amount is owed to Greinke outside of the $146.5 million he will be paid over six years while he's pitching in Arizona; it will be paid to him regardless of whether he'd still be with the D-Backs in year 7 and after.

For example, let's say that Greinke also eventually signs a 2-year, $10 million contract with the Giants as a free agent in 2021 after fulfilling his contract with Arizona. Greinke and the Diamondbacks also apparently agreed to a deferred payment structure of $60 million over 5 years, so I'm going to assume the annual salary and payments are spread out evenly for the sake of simplicity. Also, I'm going to round to the nearest ten-thousandth and not factor in whatever interest payments that may have been agreed to by Zack and the D-Backs. Below is a breakdown of the payout of his hypothetical deals.

$206.5 million Arizona deal (including deferred amount) | $10 million San Francisco contract

2016 as Diamondback (Year 1 of Arizona Contract)

$24.42 million

2017 as Diamondback (Year 2 of Arizona Contract)

$24.42 million

2018 as Diamondback (Year 3 of Arizona Contract)

$24.42 million

2019 as Diamondback (Year 4 of Arizona Contract)

$24.42 million

2020 as Diamondback (Year 5 of Arizona Contract)

$24.42 million

2021 as Diamondback (Year 6 of Arizona Contract)

$24.42 million

2022 as Giant (Year 1 of San Francisco Contract + 1st Payment of Arizona Deferment)

$5 million + $12 million = $17 million

2023 as Giant (Year 2 of San Francisco Contract + 2nd Payment of Arizona Deferment)

$5 million + $12 million = $17 million

2024 as Retired Player (3rd Payment of Arizona Deferment)

$12 million

2025 as Retired Player (4th Payment of Arizona Deferment)

$12 million

2026 as Retired Player (5th Payment of Arizona Deferment)

$12 million
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Looking at Ryan Madson 

Post#190 » by Ranma » Sat Dec 5, 2015 1:32 pm

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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#191 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 5:24 pm

I like Ryan Madson.
He had a great year last year.

He got worked in the playoffs last year though. But looking at bullpen stats is misleading anyway. Out of the 9 appearances he had in the postseason, 6 of them he gave up nothing.


Oh…he's a world series champion too.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#192 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 5:37 pm

and thank you for that break down on deferred payments, I didn't think any players association in any league allowed something like that.

I've heard of pro rating a contract when a player is done ala Gilbert Arenas or Bobby Bonilla but never deferments.
Wonder how I missed that….and now I see how AZ was able to poach him.
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Shark Goes to the Bay Area 

Post#193 » by Ranma » Sat Dec 5, 2015 7:14 pm

You're welcome, Quake. I thought the Bobby Bonilla and Kevin Brown contracts had deferred payments in them as well, but I don't have time right now to confirm. However, I'm fairly certain that McCourt deferred some money in the contract he gave Manny Ramirez. In any case, ESPN has a 2012 article referencing contracts with deferred payments.

Jeff Samardzija signs with the Giants with a limited no-trade clause and the Dodgers and Cardinals in pursuit. Interesting to find out that the Dodgers were actually after him. Admittedly, Shark is intriguing given his stuff and clean bill of health, but I'm not sold on him at those figures even if they are relatively reasonable in comparison to Greinke and Price's deals. The loss of our now 23rd overall pick and a limited no-trade clause wouldn't have helped either.


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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#194 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 7:53 pm

Not a huge fan of Cueto.
Definitely not a huge fan of Cueto after Greinke and Price broke the bank.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#195 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:00 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:and thank you for that break down on deferred payments, I didn't think any players association in any league allowed something like that.

I've heard of pro rating a contract when a player is done ala Gilbert Arenas or Bobby Bonilla but never deferments.
Wonder how I missed that….and now I see how AZ was able to poach him.


Frank did this with Manny Ramirez, Andruw Jones, and a few other dodgers' contracts at that time too, apparently his parking lots couldn't keep up with his spending habits.
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: Shark Goes to the Bay Area 

Post#196 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:02 pm

Ranma wrote:[color=#FF4000]You're welcome, Quake. I thought the Bobby Bonilla and Kevin Brown contracts had deferred payments in them as well, but I don't have time right now to confirm. However, I'm fairly certain that McCourt deferred some money in the contract he gave Manny Ramirez. In any case, ESPN has a 2012 article referencing contracts with deferred payments.



I see you are already on it. :thumbsup:
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#197 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:04 pm

we have a 1st rounder and 2 compensation picks now.
If Howie signs elsewhere (wishful thinking), we'd have 3 compensation picks.

that's 3 very high picks…possibly 4.
We could do some real damage out here with those picks.
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Re: Shark Goes to the Bay Area 

Post#198 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:06 pm

Ranma wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/673204594680315904[/tweet]


haha let's go grab Fernandez and Ozuna, then give Donny Potato a wonderful present in a form of a particular Cuban outfielder he loved so much. throw in an older prospect SP like Zach Lee or two and I think it can happen lmao.
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#199 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:11 pm

Is Ozuna a quality defensive OF?

Why not Yelich?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yelicch01.shtml

Look at that guy's contract.
I'd be willing to do a blockbuster centered around him and Fernandez.
and by blockbuster, I'm talking about having no doubts about exchanging our top prospects.
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Re: 2015 Offseason: (Mattingly out!) 

Post#200 » by Neddy » Sat Dec 5, 2015 8:26 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:we have a 1st rounder and 2 compensation picks now.
If Howie signs elsewhere (wishful thinking), we'd have 3 compensation picks.

that's 3 very high picks…possibly 4.
We could do some real damage out here with those picks.


if we want to avoid giving away our picks then Iwakuma is out, if we don't want to gamble on Cueto's health, Johnny is out. I see Kenta Maeda as a right handed version of Kaz Ishii before he got his skull fractured but if that is not worth his contract and posting fee or even a long term spot in our rotation, then a realistic option maybe only via trade.

here is the thing tho, I was kidding about Puig as obviously Mattingly won't ever go for that, but Jeff Loria might. next year will be the last year Stanton's salary is still in 7 digits. after that, 14.5, 24.5, 25, 26, and keeps on escalating until about 32 mil a year. if it's a three team trade where Puig goes elsewhere, say NYM and the Alderson sends off one of his prized young pitchers down to Miami, could we steal the two young studs of Miami, and along with Puig going off to NY, we pitch in say, Peraza to the Mets and SVS to MIami?

NYM gets their two most needed positions filled in style, the Marlins gets to dump salary while bring in a legitimate Ace and a replacement power hitting OF for cheap, and we get, pretty much our problems solved for both our rotation and for our lineup.
ehhhhh f it.

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