2016-2017 off season thread.

[Neddy]

hypothetically, say without adding anyone outside of this organization, and if we were to lose free agents, strictly going with players under contract, what we would have is

1. LF L Toles
2. SS L Seager
3. RF R Puig
4. 1B L Gonzo
5. C S Grandal
6. 2B R Barnes
7. CF L Pederson
8. 3B R Kendrick

OF R Thompson
OF L Ethier
OF/1B R SVS
Util R ****
SS R Culberson

this is the skeleton lineup. now let's see how we can improve from here. talk to ya'll tomorrow.

[Neddy]

well, the WS game #1 is going on and it is breaking my heart.
Lindor didn't fake, he stoled the bag with two outs and created that 2 run situation for the "wagon burners" as one of my patients put it. nice cutter by Kluber followed up by the fastone to get out that jam on top of the second. Go Tribe!

but back to us... let's assume that Barnes is strictly a backup catcher for us. then we have a hole in second. more days go by, I am certain that Turner will recieve and accept a 4 years or longer deal, and we should stay away from it. so let's say for now, Kendrick is a utility man and we have a hole in the third.

is Pederson really good enough of a defensive center fielder that he isn't tradeable? his bat however is at now 129 OPS+ and his defense is still positive, which made him a 3.6 WAR player this season. that actually made him the 3rd most valuable positional player and 4th when pitchers are included, and of course that being Kershaw.

who is our best player? at this point, it is unquestioned. it is the young Seager.

here is my first look at this situation. when it comes to our position players and the lineup, we must build around Corey Seager, and learn what his best attributes are and find pieces to maximally complement them. Corey is a good slugging, about 0.060 point better OBP guy above his BA who strikes out nearly about 20% of the time who bats lefty and walks about 8% of the time. he also GIDP 12 times in 627 at bats. I no longer think he fits best as our #2 in the lineup. Trayce Thompson on the other hand, rated just above a half of that ratio in terms of GIDP. **** is slightly higher than Trayce but still better than Seager. Toles have one of the best rates in terms of GIDP per at bats ratio. Toles also sports 0.050 OBP better than his BA. then there is Pederson. Joc in plus 2 full seasons as a major leaguer at tender age of 24, has now accumilated better than 0.125 OBP over his BA and he is still improving. with 1099 total at bats, he has grounded into double play only 11 times. one more interesting fact to consider. Toles posted 0385 BABIP this season in the majors, but through out his minor league career, whenever he had any success, his BABIP was that good. the year he crashed and burned... BABIP was at .300 and got released following that season.

with no input from outside, after assessing the data above, I would say the lineup for 2017 should start

1. LF L Toles / or Joc
2. CF L Joc / or Toles
3.
4. SS L Seager

now this lineup is already way too left handed. we need some right handed hitters to correct the ship.
so, adding two right handed hitters, one suggested by our own Quake, and the other by DodgersNation... trade for Ian Kinsler and add Cespedes via FA.

now the lineup suddenly pops out like this

1. LF L Toles
2. CF L Joc ( and the first two are still switchable)
3. RF R Cespedes
4. SS L Seager
5. 2B R Kinsler

now the assumptions change about whether the GIDP of Seager really brings his overall value of being the best player. as most of you guys already know, the best player should be in #2 hole according to many SABRheads data driven analysis. but I am going to be stubborn in my early analysis that Joc's current value plus his projected continued growth, no matter how slow they maybe, is worth keeping at the top of the lineup, but I am going to make a small adjustment and consider using more proven player at the top and a potential bust in the second hole and flip them as Tole's numbers could regress or improve even more, but Joc's numbers are more likely be stable and even possibly improve notibly.

then I am going to add the guys we have we probably could not shed due to their regression and a hefty contracts, or guys we are surely not looking to replace just yet

1. CF L Joc
2. LF L Toles
3. RF R Cespedes
4. SS L Seager
5. 2B R Kinsler
6. 1B L Gonzo
7. C S Grandal

that leaves us with 1 spot, which is the third base. Rob Segedin is an option here. but if you were to look at his entire minor league career and see the sudden spike in his power numbers, I see another potential PED enhanced player, or a natural but a fluke player in the making. Kendrick is still an option and he is deserving of a spot if Turner is not a part of this team, which he still can very well be, but in this particular mental exercise, I am not going to count on the big red. that leaves ****, Cuberson, Taylor as possible choices and I do not want any of them ahead of Howie. there are no good options in the free agent market this year. of course there is one potential option but I am certain his days of playing 3rd with respectable defensive ability are behind him.. in Edwin Encarnacion. he will be QO-ered and he is nowadays 1B/DH. knowing all this, I think the still most likely choice unitl someone comes up through the minors to take the job over, is Howie.

so as of the current thought, the lineup looks like

1. CF L Joc
2. LF L Toles
3. RF R Cespedes
4. SS L Seager
5. 2B R Kinsler
6. 1B L Gonzo
7. C S Grandal
8. 3B R Howie

that lineup to me seems very competitive. now let's say, just for the sake of arguement, knowing his last years maybe ugly and if he turns out to be not in the line of the school of Marlon Byrd but was in the line of the Pharmacy of Marlon Byrd, could be devestating, but let's add Turner into the mix, either he accepted the QO or we were able to sign him for an overpaid 3 year deal, possibly we caved in to sign him to even longer contract... if we assume his performance will not suddenly evaporate but at least perform at close to 90% of current production... then we have a complete chance of the complexion of our lineup to be as such

1. LF L Toles ---- because he has speed on top of everything, and hitting ahead of Seager, he will see pitches to hit
2 .SS L Seager -- best player back in the 2 hole
3. RF R Cespedes
4. 3B R Turner -- but his split says he really is a LH
5. 2B R Kinsler
6. 1B L Gonzo - back to the cleanup if Turner regresses as soon as he gets his money
7. CF L Joc
8. C S Grandal

we could also have an alternative lineup of

1. CF L Joc
2. 2B R Kinsler
3. SS L Seager
4. RF R Cespedes
5. 1B L Gonzo
6. 3B R Turner
7. C S Grandal
8. LF L Toles

which is more based on traditional scouting, orthodox ideas and merited based on proven record.

now let's put the team together with the rest of the bench players.

1 through 8 settled as above, then

09. C R Barnes, because every bench must start from the backup catcher
10. OF L Ethier. for the last year of his contract, he is primary LH pinch hitter for us in 2017
11. OF R SVS
12. UT R ****
13. UT R Kendrick

wildcards: Culberson. I like this defense and as I have mentioned before, Corey needs more dayoffs and we need better glove. Trayce Thompson. not sure where his options are. if we can stash him in the minors, that would be great.

anywho, now it is the bottom of the 6th in the first game of the WS. wish our dodgers were here.

[Neddy]

I do realize this is just another symptom of my baseball obcession and dodger games withdrawal, but be as it may.

[AGAVE]

I rather liked Cespedes when he was in the Athletics organization.
How much longer do we feel he can still hit like he does?
Joc leading off might make him concentrate more on his at bats.
I like it

[Neddy]

I rather liked Cespedes when he was in the Athletics organization.
How much longer do we feel he can still hit like he does?
Joc leading off might make him concentrate more on his at bats.
I like it

well I am not necessarily saying it is Cespedes or bust, merely transmitting the DodgersNation article which proposed this, and knowing how thin the FA market is this year and our internal options being either not exactly major ready or have soured in case of Puig for many, Cespedes becomes a pretty good alternative to consider.

Yoenis' first year in Oakland was a grand one, but his following two years before he was traded to RedSox were not exactly the case. he had his worst numbers as a RedSox and soon was sent to Detroit where he had the best numbers in terms of BA and SLG but his OBP suffered. soon he eneded up with the Mets where he had the best season of his professional career in the back end of 2015. his 2016 numbers still show better than his career average. I think he has good 3 to 4 more years with possibly 1-2 years of **** numbers in his latter part of his probable contract. if it is between a long term bad contract of Cespedes and Turner, whom would we choose? I think Cespedes has the better track record and have played in his contract years twice already. Turner is still a qurstion mark whos production has been slowly diminishing in each year he has been here. I am sure the Mets desire would be to retain Cespedes and sign Turner, but their owner's pocket aint that deep. will Cespedes command more money than Turner? most likely. then it comes down to who can afford more expensive player and that is obviously us. the last remaining factor then is whom do we think is the better player for the duration of the contract each player demand? Cespedes or Turner? I think it is hands down Yoenis. Cespedes is also a year younger. we can give him an extra year and it shouldnt hurt us.

[Neddy]

regarding Joc leading off, remember what his OBP is over his BA. he doens't need to bat any better to justify his position in the lineup, but as I have pointed out that his BA is trending up each season. if he becomes .275 BA guy, there is a real possibility that he could challenge being a .400 OBP guy. that is simply incredible to have, espeicailly when that guy can also belt out 30 HRs a season. Obivously if he ever gets to that point, he deserves to be hitting in the middle of the lineup but I honestly do not see him being a .275 BA guy unles he significantly sacrifices his OBP and even his SLG.

man I have issues with baseball. I need BA as of Baseball Annonymous. I have dealt with people on drugs and other dependencies and I am displaying all the symptoms of a sick sick person.... damn this **** game!

[AGAVE]

So I looked up Puig's and Cespedes' contract #s.

Again I'll assume money and years are the forethought of any discussions with Yoenis.
He makes nearly 3 times more than Yasiel and I will assume YC will want years in a new contract to satisfy his latter years of playing.
I don't know that that fits the direction or FO wishes to go.
The player fits; but the potential contract might not.

So, I will again assume AF/FZ have their sights on a player (from another organization) ethier in AAA or just coming up to the majors that offers a sense of newness and potential.
My guess is an outfielder.

While reading a few posts earlier, getting just Kinsler didn't feel to be enough.
When adding two players with some pop in their bats, the lineup looks more threatening.
Seeing YC & IK in the lineup card above surrounded with our current talent presents a better potential.

We just have to wait and see what our FO comes up with.

Other player scenarios you folks see beyond YC & IK ?

[Neddy]

So I looked up Puig's and Cespedes' contract #s.

Again I'll assume money and years are the forethought of any discussions with Yoenis.
He makes nearly 3 times more than Yasiel and I will assume YC will want years in a new contract to satisfy his latter years of playing.
I don't know that that fits the direction or FO wishes to go.
The player fits; but the potential contract might not.

So, I will again assume AF/FZ have their sights on a player (from another organization) ethier in AAA or just coming up to the majors that offers a sense of newness and potential.
My guess is an outfielder.

While reading a few posts earlier, getting just Kinsler didn't feel to be enough.
When adding two players with some pop in their bats, the lineup looks more threatening.
Seeing YC & IK in the lineup card above surrounded with our current talent presents a better potential.

We just have to wait and see what our FO comes up with.

Other player scenarios you folks see beyond YC & IK ?

frankly, I like Puig. I always stood by my position that teamwork and chemistry is overrated in baseball. baseball is not a team sport in likes of basketball or football, but a collective effort of individual performances other than say, turning double play, picking off runners, or controlling the outfield traffic on high deep flyballs and linedrives. but it appears vast majority of the fanbase feels otherwise, and the fact that the FO did demote him to AAA and only brought him back when alternates were not available or performed well enough near and into the post season may indicate the FO feels the same regarding Puig's future. Cespedes is only the product of lack of better options in the free agency. we need a right handed bat and Batista is obviously toxic.

most major ready AAA/AA players we have for position players are Cody Bellinger and Willie Calhoun, and both can play outfields. Clay's kid Cody will eventually take over the first from Gonzo, Willie may eventually find his way into the infield by claming the hot corner. but both are left handed and we need RHBs to add. currently we don't have any. if Cespedes is not coming, and Batista should not be coming, we are very thin in alternatives. I suppose Edwin Encarnacion is another, but he is still more than a year older than Turner and another former 3rd base who can't field anywhere but the first now. we don't have a place to put him defensively.

Kinsler and Cespedes make up 1 option for us as a combo, I will look into more soon.

[Neddy]

I don't think the Orioles will be offering the QO to Matt Weiters. he is coming off his worst offensive season in his career but has proven to be one of the best offensive catchers in game. he is also just 30 years old, we can offer him a 3 year deal overpaying him while Grandal is still arbitration eligible. he would be a great #2 catcher behind Yaz but also could either prove to be better and win the starting job, or make him a trade bait by mid season( which is what I am thinking about) to a catching desperate team on the bubble of wild card race. maybe even back to the Orioles, lol. this move also will free up Barnes to play either the 3rd or 2nd depending on what happens with Utley and/or Turner. my guess is we get Turner back for sure and probably both, which isn't exactly what I want.

the Redsox also won't be picking up the option for Clay Buckholtz. we can buy him up as well with the intension of either build our depth as we have done in 2016, or convert him to a reliever(which is my intend) he would make a much better version of what Blanton was for us this season. he will be expensive for that role, but we are about to have two minimum wage guys in the rotation with Urias and De Leon. Maeda is also cheap and if Ryu ever makes it back healthy, he is dirt cheap and when healthy, a clear #3 guy on the rotation just behind Kershaw and the young phenom Julio.

[Neddy]

which the last post brings me back to our rotation and the pitching staff in general.

Scenario #1
------A) let's just assume that the Hams post Otani to MLB because Shohei announces there is nothing more he can do in that league and wants to come here, and we outbid everyone and get him
------B) nobody else comes back healthy. we do with what we have. we do not sign any other free agents including our own.

#1 L Kershaw
#2 R Otani
#3 R Maeda
#4 L Urias
#5 R De Leon

a great potential with little proven track record. high risk, high reward scenario.

Scenario #2
------A) Otani is still posted
------B) at least one of the injured players do make it back

#1 L Kershaw
#2 R Otani
#3 L Ryu / R McCarthy
#4 L Urias
#5 Maeda

very consistent, possibly a high risk in terms of injury as Maeda's health record ain't good and Ryu is coming off a major surgery but this rotation could dominate the NL and give us a very long post season rotation options as well.

Scenario #3
------A) Otani is not posted.
------B) nobody is healthy enough to come back.

this would be the worst scenario.

#1 L Kershaw
#2 R Maeda
#3 L Urias
#4 R Stewart
#5 R De Leon

this is not a playoffs rotation and I don't see this happening... which leads me to the next scenario.....

Scenario #4 and probably most likely scenario
------A) no Otani
------B) but we get at least 1 of the former starter back healthy

#1 L Kershaw
#2 L Ryu / R McCarthy
#3 R Maeda
#4 L Urias
#5 R De Leon

solid, doable rotation with potential as there are more options both in DL and AAA.

here is my personal realistic option.
Scenario #5
------A) no Otani
------B) we get at least one former starter back
------C) we resign Hill

#1 L Kershaw
#2 L Hill
#3 L Ryu / R McCarthy
#4 L Urias
#5 R Maeda

very dominant rotation, although the injury risk is ceratinly there.

then there is the ultimate dream rotation, which is highly unlikely but I will post it because I've been drunk since Raiders game which we won, and through the Clippers game which we also won.... and I am feeling super.

Scenario Supreme.
------A) Otani is a dodger next season
------B) we resign Hill
------C) at least one of the injured starter is back at 100%

#1 L Kershaw
#2 L Hill
#3 R Otani
#4 L Ryu / R McCarthy
#5 R Maeda

and Urias becomes the long man and waits for his turn like Orel had to back in the mid 80s, and De Leon is in AAA.

this team, with or without the improvement of our lineup, can win 100 games on starters alone.

[Neddy]

... and to complete the last post... say the scenario #4 is what happens, and we do end up with the rotation of

Kershaw
Ryu/McCarthy
Maeda
Urias
De Leon

then we will most likely keep Jensen through QO, so

CP R Jensen
SU R Buchholtz :we need to sign a stalworth SU even at the price of a starter. we have no real big money guy behind Clay in rotation
SU L Wood
SU L Dayton
SU R Blanton :resign him but not to be our 8th guy. maybe not even the 7th guy maybe not even a regular set up. but he can help.
MR L Liberatore
LR R Stripling

with Stewart in AAA, Oaks probably close to being ready, the one who isn't 100% in McCarthy/Ryu combo, we are deep and we are nasty.

[AGAVE]

RYU is a really big question mark.
He's becoming our next Dreifort.
Only RYU can tell us if he will ever be healthy enough again to remain within team plans.
Acquiring Otani to me would most likely force us to make a decision about RYU.

I like Hill; but does he like us enough to stay by signing with us?

[Ranma]

First, I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome AGAVE into our discussion. Nice to have you aboard.

Second, I just want to say that I've been preoccupied with some personal stuff I have to take care of, so I'm not sure how often I can stop by here regularly. However, I'm sure I'll find my way back once the Hot Stove season starts up. I just have to do a better job of taking care of business.

Now, I'm going to mention some stuff I read recently. Buster Olney in a recent ESPN Insider article mentioned how some veteran players are turned off by the organization's method of operation. The decision to bat Andrew Toles leadoff in Game 6 of the NLCS was cited as an example of the vets' unhappiness with the decision to go with an unproven player based on a small sample size of success. I happen to agree with the Dodgers' decision in that case, especially since the vets have proven that they continue to be inept with regards to not producing with timely offense. Like going with a worn-down Utley did us any favors or having GIDP machine Kendrick batting atop the lineup would really limit the damage given his lack of footspeed on the basepaths. I agree with Quake, it's high past time we dealt the whining losers who think they are owed something strictly on seniority despite their mediocrity.

Hey, I agree with the criticism of small sample sizes but it depends on the context of the situation. Our vets did squat before and after Toles's insertion to the leadoff spot, which was repeated from the postseason prior. Insanity is doing the same thing while expecting different results. Olney also mentioned Toles claimed he fumbled that ball in LF due to the lights. I don't buy that BS. The bottom line is that he took his eye off the ball. Why did the lights bother him at that moment but not others? It's already infuriating that that crucial flub happened, but making excuses about it just makes me begrudge Toles even more. Loser.

[Ranma]

Ian Kinsler anybody?

RHB.
Good pop.
Good 2B defense.
Excellent postseason numbers let me know he can hit good pitching.
Should not cost a fortune.
1 year left on his deal + a team option.

If we could trot out Mark Ellis for his defense a few years ago and the same with Utley this year....we certainly can trot out an older guy with the defense and the bat.

Perfect stop gap player until we develop or draft a 2B


Puig for Kinsler.

we already have our 2b of the future. it's all just a matter of how long it takes Willie Calhoun to be MLB ready. he jacked out 27 HRs in AA this year, and even as a 20 year old in around 300 at bats through 3 different levels, he has shown similar HR per at bats ratio, so I think his power is legit. one problem that doesn't help us is tho, that he is yet another left handed batsman.

I would not mind Ian Kinsler, but the Tigers are always an enigma to me. are they rebuilding or are they reloading again?

Kinsler is under contract for one more year + a team option so he wont block Willie. Willie has to get better on D for me to pencil him in as 2B of the future. Right now he's just an asset to me.

I'd totally send Kazmir.
We're in the same wavelength with McCarthy.

Brock Stewart and another arm for Kinsler?

I was initially against the idea of trading for Kinsler, especially if the cost is Puig. However, if the cost to get him is Stewart and filler, then I would not be opposed to it. I've mentioned before that I'm not really interested in acquiring an older player without athleticism with a long-term commitment, but getting Kinsler as a stopgap at that price would be fine.

This free-agent market doesn't really appeal to me, so my focus is on retaining our own free agents. Maybe we can trade for a player or two depending on the cost. With the anticipated graduations of Urias and De Leon, we really don't have any top-shelf talent left in the development system ready to contribute soon. Urias was the last of our elite prospects while De Leon is good but doesn't have star potential. I agree with Quake's assessment of Willie Calhoun as more of an asset to be developed to increase trade value rather than a player to be invested in long-term as someone to eventually take a spot on a major-league roster. I view him similarly to Alex Verdugo. We still have plenty of talent but it is lacking in ripeness and the pool now needs replenishing.

My focus is on 2018 when we can be free-agent shopper for Manny Machado and Bryce Harper. Jake Arrieta will be an UFA in 2017 as will Yu Darvish. While I like both pitchers, I'm not sure how available and willing I am to go with either with a long-term commitment. The barren market for pitching this offseason could also play out in our favor since Kazmir could be attractive trade bait for desperate teams if he chooses not to opt out. Likewise, young arms like Stripling, Stewart, and Wood might be in demand on the trade market. Ryu and McCarthy are wildcards that hold little current trade value but are on relatively inexpensive contracts that we can afford to see if they can regain their respective forms.

I really hope we can bring back both Jansen and Turner, but I share the front office's concerns about paying too much money and giving up too many years for a relief pitcher. Similarly, Turner is 32 and recovering from microfracture surgery, however, as a late-bloomer, he has less mileage on him than someone else of that age. Luckily, both will have draft-pick compensation tied to them, so that may help in our efforts to retain both.

If we can get Kenley back on a 5-year deal for about $80 million, I might be open to that even if it's a little steep for my taste. Turner I can be convinced to come back at for 4 years and $80 million. While I want Sheffield to be groomed as the heir apparent to the closer role, he's not ready and I can't stomach the idea of Baez in that role. Kendrick could be an okay backup plan should at 3B should we lose Red Beard, but if we keep him at the aforementioned proposal, we can maybe move him to 1B after A-Gon and Ethier's contract expire where we can then pursue Machado to be our SS or 3B depending on Seager's defensive development.

I've already stated my preference to retain both Puig and Reddick, but there is a possibility of re-opening talks for Braun, which I'm not open to at all given his history with PED and proneness to injury. There is also rumblings that we may even pursue Chapman in free agency to set up Jansen. I'm more open to that than Braun, but have hesitations given his personal matters unless the organization can convince him to address those issues through community work and personal development in a public relations move. Another idea is trading for Evan Longoria if we ere to lose out on Turner, but that seems unlikely given the lack of quality prospects left I'd be willing to deal to make that happen.

[Ranma]

as most of you guys already know, the best player should be in #2 hole according to many SABRheads data driven analysis. but I am going to be stubborn in my early analysis that Joc's current value plus his projected continued growth, no matter how slow they maybe, is worth keeping at the top of the lineup, but I am going to make a small adjustment and consider using more proven player at the top and a potential bust in the second hole and flip them as Tole's numbers could regress or improve even more, but Joc's numbers are more likely be stable and even possibly improve notibly.

regarding Joc leading off, remember what his OBP is over his BA. he doens't need to bat any better to justify his position in the lineup, but as I have pointed out that his BA is trending up each season. if he becomes .275 BA guy, there is a real possibility that he could challenge being a .400 OBP guy. that is simply incredible to have, espeicailly when that guy can also belt out 30 HRs a season. Obivously if he ever gets to that point, he deserves to be hitting in the middle of the lineup but I honestly do not see him being a .275 BA guy unles he significantly sacrifices his OBP and even his SLG.

man I have issues with baseball. I need BA as of Baseball Annonymous. I have dealt with people on drugs and other dependencies and I am displaying all the symptoms of a sick sick person.... damn this **** game!

I'd like to commend hitting coach Turner Ward for getting Joc back on track after he was all over the place with his batting stance not only this season, but last season as well. I hope his upward trend of improvement continues but I can't count on it until he sustains it for at least a couple of consecutive seasons given his tendency to get out of whack so easily. Having said that, he's currently our best option in CF. That doesn't make him untradeable by any means, but it does indicate he does hold value to us both as a player and asset.

Given all of that, I don't have confidence in him to handle the leadoff spot right now. I get the argument of him being more focused in that role, but he seemed to mess himself up the last time we put him higher in the order. I still like him in the bottom 3rd of the batting order for now just to ease the pressure on him until he develops some consistency with his bat.

[Ranma]

I don't think the Orioles will be offering the QO to Matt Weiters. he is coming off his worst offensive season in his career but has proven to be one of the best offensive catchers in game. he is also just 30 years old, we can offer him a 3 year deal overpaying him while Grandal is still arbitration eligible. he would be a great #2 catcher behind Yaz but also could either prove to be better and win the starting job, or make him a trade bait by mid season( which is what I am thinking about) to a catching desperate team on the bubble of wild card race. maybe even back to the Orioles, lol. this move also will free up Barnes to play either the 3rd or 2nd depending on what happens with Utley and/or Turner. my guess is we get Turner back for sure and probably both, which isn't exactly what I want.

the Redsox also won't be picking up the option for Clay Buckholtz. we can buy him up as well with the intension of either build our depth as we have done in 2016, or convert him to a reliever(which is my intend) he would make a much better version of what Blanton was for us this season. he will be expensive for that role, but we are about to have two minimum wage guys in the rotation with Urias and De Leon. Maeda is also cheap and if Ryu ever makes it back healthy, he is dirt cheap and when healthy, a clear #3 guy on the rotation just behind Kershaw and the young phenom Julio.

I've liked the idea of pursuing Weiters since last season and I still like it. The Dodgers organization seems hesitant to give Barnes the backup C job even though most of us here are willing to do it. The kid needs a chance and regular playing time. He certainly deserves more of an opportunity than what **** has gotten. Barnes's versatility should serve him well for the big club once he gets a decent opportunity.

I also like the idea of getting Buccholz to replace Blanton's role in the bullpen because, quite frankly, I'm not really looking forward to paying whatever the open market dictates for Joe's services given his postseason meltdown.

[Ranma]

I rather liked Cespedes when he was in the Athletics organization.
How much longer do we feel he can still hit like he does?
Joc leading off might make him concentrate more on his at bats.
I like it

well I am not necessarily saying it is Cespedes or bust, merely transmitting the DodgersNation article which proposed this, and knowing how thin the FA market is this year and our internal options being either not exactly major ready or have soured in case of Puig for many, Cespedes becomes a pretty good alternative to consider.

Yoenis' first year in Oakland was a grand one, but his following two years before he was traded to RedSox were not exactly the case. he had his worst numbers as a RedSox and soon was sent to Detroit where he had the best numbers in terms of BA and SLG but his OBP suffered. soon he eneded up with the Mets where he had the best season of his professional career in the back end of 2015. his 2016 numbers still show better than his career average. I think he has good 3 to 4 more years with possibly 1-2 years of **** numbers in his latter part of his probable contract. if it is between a long term bad contract of Cespedes and Turner, whom would we choose? I think Cespedes has the better track record and have played in his contract years twice already. Turner is still a qurstion mark whos production has been slowly diminishing in each year he has been here. I am sure the Mets desire would be to retain Cespedes and sign Turner, but their owner's pocket aint that deep. will Cespedes command more money than Turner? most likely. then it comes down to who can afford more expensive player and that is obviously us. the last remaining factor then is whom do we think is the better player for the duration of the contract each player demand? Cespedes or Turner? I think it is hands down Yoenis. Cespedes is also a year younger. we can give him an extra year and it shouldnt hurt us.

I'm not a fan of pursuing Cespedes either. I'd rather just stick with Puig even with Dodgers widely anticipated to move on from him. Yasiel plays better defense and costs much less and should be on an upward trend while Cespedes's downward decline seems to be waiting to come around the corner any minute now.

[Ranma]

Scenario #4 and probably most likely scenario
------A) no Otani
------B) but we get at least 1 of the former starter back healthy

#1 L Kershaw
#2 L Ryu / R McCarthy
#3 R Maeda
#4 L Urias
#5 R De Leon

solid, doable rotation with potential as there are more options both in DL and AAA.
...

then there is the ultimate dream rotation, which is highly unlikely but I will post it because I've been drunk since Raiders game which we won, and through the Clippers game which we also won.... and I am feeling super.

Scenario Supreme.
------A) Otani is a dodger next season
------B) we resign Hill
------C) at least one of the injured starter is back at 100%

#1 L Kershaw
#2 L Hill
#3 R Otani
#4 L Ryu / R McCarthy
#5 R Maeda

and Urias becomes the long man and waits for his turn like Orel had to back in the mid 80s, and De Leon is in AAA.

this team, with or without the improvement of our lineup, can win 100 games on starters alone.

In your most likely scenario (without Otani), I can't count on either Ryu or McCarthy to give us anything, which is why I don't include them in any of my scenarios. My likely worst-case scenario would be:

1. Kershaw
2. Maeda
3. Urias
4. De Leon
5. Wood

If Kazmir doesn't opt out, then he goes into the 2nd slot while everyone moves down a slot with Wood back in the bullpen. I actually don't like this configuration as I'd prefer Urias 2nd, De Leon 3rd, and Maeda 4th in this worst-case scenario. I know having 2 young arms that high in the rotation is unrealistic, especially for this big-bugdet ballclub and given Urias's anticipated innings limit, but we have to give both Julio and Jose a chance to pitch regularly at this point in their development. Plus, while Maeda, will have a full MLB season under his belt, he'll still need more rest than your average MLB pitcher as he transitions to the North-American workload. Besides, our rotation usually needs adjustments due to injury, anyway.

My scenario surpreme would be as follows:

1. Kershaw
2. Otani
3. Hill
4. Urias
5. Maeda

I'd prefer to have De Leon in the starting rotation, but there wouldn't be any room for him with signing both Otani and Hill. Signing Hill to go along with Otani would be a particularly smart move. As talented as Otani is, he will encounter an adjustment period regardless, especially for the postseason. I want Hill back in any scenario hopefully on a 2-year deal with a vesting option for a 3rd year.

We could also pursue Chris Archer again this offseason. Urias would be off-limits in such discussions, but I would be open to including De Leon and not much more (in terms of quality) other than filler (quantity). Given Archer's struggles this past season, it's arguable that De Leon could be just as productive if not more moving forward at this point in their respective careers. Normally, I'd be against such deals, but I'm banking on the upside of Honeycutt fixing whatever ails Archer to regain his previous form as well as his personality. I like De Leon but he doesn't really possess star quality stuff IMO.

[Ranma]

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[Quake Griffin]

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