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Prospects and trade discussion

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Another Lefty Reliever Targeted 

Post#641 » by Ranma » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:13 am

A local sportswriter in Detroit discussed 5 Tigers who will be talked about at the trade deadline based on his conversations with people who are familiar with the team's situation while noting that they're "open for business". Justin Verlander, J.D. Martinez, and even Ian Kinsler were included among the 5 players available, but none of them are priorities for the Dodgers right now. Verlander's age, contract, and performance make him an unappealing commodity despite his still live arm. There's glut of outfielders in the Dodgers outfield now and despite previous talks, there shouldn't be any interest in Martinez as a rental. As noted in the article, there isn't a market for second baseman now barring injury, so they're likely stuck with Kinsler, especially since his no-trade list prevented a deal from happening this past winter.

Now they mention LHP reliever Justin Wilson as being connected with the Dodgers with demand for him given the Nationals and Astros' interest in him as well. He's cheap and also a power arm but Detroit expects teams to overpay for him. However, it's noted that he's better against right-handed batters than left-handed batters, which defeats the purpose of acquiring him as a southpaw reliever since our biggest need is a left-handed reliever who's effective against lefty batters.

Personally, I'd rather pursue Brad Hand as noted before. Also, I'm not really interested in giving up Verdugo for any of the Tigers' available players. Maybe I'd give up Calhoun for Verlander if Detroit eats more than half his contract, but that is unlikely. However, I am interested in packaging Verdugo and Calhoun in an offer to Pittsburgh if they're willing to send Gerrit Cole and Andrew McCutchen back in return. More would have to be added from our side including likely Puig, but those are the principle players I would involve in such a proposal.


Anthony Fenech, Detroit Free Press (7/8/17)
RHP Justin Verlander
...

Where he fits in: A contending team with an upper-tier payroll. There are only a few suitors for Verlander: The Cubs’ interest is more smoke than fire, one person with knowledge of the situation said. They would prefer to land a younger, team-controlled starter. The Dodgers could use another starting pitcher, but many consider their biggest needs elsewhere. The Astros are an intriguing team and likely will at least check in on Verlander, but it would be out of their character to make such a move.
...

RF J.D. Martinez
...

Where he fits in: The Dodgers seem like an obvious fit: Adding Martinez would take their lineup to another level as a stabilizing presence in the middle of the order, joining young hitters like Corey Seager and Cody Bellinger. They have a deep farm system with players the Tigers have been linked to – like centerfielder Alex Verdugo – and are lined up for a deep playoff run. The two teams talked about Martinez's availability in the off-season, so familiarity is there. Thinking outside-the-box, the Brewers could upgrade in rightfield though a team source said they’re content at the moment.
...

LHP Justin Wilson

Contract status: Signed through 2017 at $1.35 million pro-rated; third-year arbitration eligible in 2018.

Why he’s wanted: Bullpens become more important in October, making a shut-down late-innings left-handed reliever very valuable. Wilson has high-octane stuff and is stronger against righties than lefties. He checks off every box in the back-end of a bullpen.

What he’s worth: It wouldn’t surprise some if Wilson netted a bigger return than Martinez. He is at a position of greater demand, with team control for 2018 and now has experience closing games on his resume. He should get an upper-tier prospect and perhaps more in return. The trade deadline is traditionally a time when teams are willing to overpay for relief help.

Where he fits in: The Astros have long been linked to Wilson and came the closest to trading for him in the off-season, when the Tigers were shopping him around. Outfielder Derek Fisher was a player the Tigers asked for in exchange for Wilson at that time, a person with knowledge of the situation said. Houston has a deep farm system and with a top lefty like Wilson, it would better one of the best bullpens in the league. The Nationals are the most desperate for a lefty reliever, but they took a big bite out of their farm system in the off-season, though that won’t stop general manager Mike Rizzo from filling the need. They had a high-level scout following the Tigers for the past week. Along with the Nationals, both the Astros and Cubs had high-level scouts watching the Tigers last, and the Dodgers have been linked to Wilson, as well.

MLB Front Offices on What 5 Detroit Tigers May Fetch on Trade Market
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FanGraphs Starring Starling Heredia 

Post#642 » by Ranma » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:17 pm

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Eric Longenhagen, FanGraphs.com (7/10/17)
Starling Heredia, OF, Los Angeles NL (Profile)
Level: Short Season Age: 18 Org Rank: 16 Top 100: NR
Line: 3-for-4, 2 HR, 2B, BB

Notes
Heredia is built like Juan Uribe — not 18-year-old Juan Uribe, but rather late-career Juan Uribe — and yet somehow still hauls ass down the line and posts plus run times while torching fastballs up in the zone. He looked too comfortable at the plate in the AZL to stay down there for very long and was moved to Odgen. He has star-level tools, a chance for average to above hit, plus raw power, and early-career speed.

Daily Prospect Notes: 7/10
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Prospects Update 

Post#643 » by Ranma » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:30 am

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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#644 » by Quake Griffin » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:15 pm

Gavin Lux sucking in A ball.

OBP a full .100 points higher than his BA though.
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Selective Dealing 

Post#645 » by Ranma » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:07 pm

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Interest in Britton 

Post#646 » by Ranma » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 pm

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Talk to the Hand 

Post#647 » by Ranma » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:13 am

I've talked about Brad Hand in a post at the top of this page as well as towards the bottom of the previous one. He's actually my top trade target for a deadline deal, but even I wouldn't give up Alex Verdugo for just Hand. I've made no secret that I think Verdugo and Willie Calhoun are basically trade bait for the Dodgers to use, but it doesn't mean I'm going to dump either of them just for the sake of trading them.

As I mentioned in the previous page, I'd aim to include Verdugo and Willie Calhoun in a trade package for Hand and one of the Padres' top prospects in their developmental system. If the Padres want to reunite some of Logan White's former draft picks with the man who oversaw the program that drafted them, then A.J. Preller is going to have to be more open-minded with his asking price.


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Half of MLB Interested in Hand While Dodgers Scouting Gray 

Post#648 » by Ranma » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:34 pm

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Dodgers Digest's Trade Targets 

Post#649 » by Ranma » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:07 pm

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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#650 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:49 pm

Thank God we didn't dovthat deal.

I remain somewhat mystified as to what Verdugo has to do as a minor leaguer to prove he's not just trade bait but rather a valuable piece of our organization that we'd hate to part with.


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Valuing Verdugo 

Post#651 » by Ranma » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:03 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Thank God we didn't dovthat deal.

I remain somewhat mystified as to what Verdugo has to do as a minor leaguer to prove he's not just trade bait but rather a valuable piece of our organization that we'd hate to part with.


I acknowledge that Verdugo is actually close to being major-league ready if he already isn't there. I just don't see his potential to be higher than Joc Pederson's in terms of value. Pederson has more power while Verdugo is the better hitter and possesses the stronger outfield arm. He'll be a solid player at the MLB level. He just doesn't excite me, personally.

Having said that, he does have value and it may be at its highest peak at the moment, so I would like to capitalize on that. Obviously, I'd rather include him in a deal for Archer but that doesn't look likely at the moment, so I see Gray as a nice consolation and worth the price.

Barring injury, I don't really see a path for Verdugo to be the Dodgers' regular outfielder. You may argue he could be Puig's replacement or take over left field but I'd rather stick with what we have and we still have Trayce Thompson. Verdugo's value is higher than Thompson's right now, so he's the more attractive asset for other teams.

Plus, we have Jeran Kendall who should take over in center field within the next couple of years if he meets expectations, which is not a given but still a likely anticipation. Also, the Dodgers are supposedly targeting Bryce Harper in his anticipated free agency during winter, 2018 even though I'd rather have Manny Machado.
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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#652 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:46 pm

Ranma wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:Thank God we didn't dovthat deal.

I remain somewhat mystified as to what Verdugo has to do as a minor leaguer to prove he's not just trade bait but rather a valuable piece of our organization that we'd hate to part with.


I acknowledge that Verdugo is actually close to being major-league ready if he already isn't there. I just don't see his potential to be higher than Joc Pederson's in terms of value. Pederson has more power while Verdugo is the better hitter and possesses the stronger outfield arm. He'll be a solid player at the MLB level. He just doesn't excite me, personally.

Having said that, he does have value and it may be at its highest peak at the moment, so I would like to capitalize on that. Obviously, I'd rather include him in a deal for Archer but that doesn't look likely at the moment, so I see Gray as a nice consolation and worth the price.

Barring injury, I don't really see a path for Verdugo to be the Dodgers' regular outfielder. You may argue he could be Puig's replacement or take over left field but I'd rather stick with what we have and we still have Trayce Thompson. Verdugo's value is higher than Thompson's right now, so he's the more attractive asset for other teams.

Plus, we have Jeran Kendall who should take over in center field within the next couple of years if he meets expectations, which is not a given but still a likely anticipation. Also, the Dodgers are supposedly targeting Bryce Harper in his anticipated free agency during winter, 2018 even though I'd rather have Manny Machado.

He seems like he's going to be a solid OF with 4 out of the 5 stars.

Good bat.
Good glove.
Wheels
Plus plus arm.

Question mark on the power.

A surplus for us shouldnt diminish his value. It's not easy to develop OFs that are pluses on both sides of the ball. They need speed. They need instincts. They need a projectable body.
When a guy flashes the ability to check a lot of those boxes, it shouldn't just be randomly dismissed for God knows what reason.

Regardless of whether he's trade bait or not, given his tools, we shouldn't treat him like he's trade bait. It lowers his value. There's no need to punish ourselves for doing our job (developing him) well. The other teams are going to do that for us.



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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#653 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:10 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:
Ranma wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:Thank God we didn't dovthat deal.

I remain somewhat mystified as to what Verdugo has to do as a minor leaguer to prove he's not just trade bait but rather a valuable piece of our organization that we'd hate to part with.


I acknowledge that Verdugo is actually close to being major-league ready if he already isn't there. I just don't see his potential to be higher than Joc Pederson's in terms of value. Pederson has more power while Verdugo is the better hitter and possesses the stronger outfield arm. He'll be a solid player at the MLB level. He just doesn't excite me, personally.

Having said that, he does have value and it may be at its highest peak at the moment, so I would like to capitalize on that. Obviously, I'd rather include him in a deal for Archer but that doesn't look likely at the moment, so I see Gray as a nice consolation and worth the price.

Barring injury, I don't really see a path for Verdugo to be the Dodgers' regular outfielder. You may argue he could be Puig's replacement or take over left field but I'd rather stick with what we have and we still have Trayce Thompson. Verdugo's value is higher than Thompson's right now, so he's the more attractive asset for other teams.

Plus, we have Jeran Kendall who should take over in center field within the next couple of years if he meets expectations, which is not a given but still a likely anticipation. Also, the Dodgers are supposedly targeting Bryce Harper in his anticipated free agency during winter, 2018 even though I'd rather have Manny Machado.

He seems like he's going to be a solid OF with 4 out of the 5 stars.

Good bat.
Good glove.
Wheels
Plus plus arm.

Question mark on the power.

A surplus for us shouldnt diminish his value. It's not easy to develop OFs that are pluses on both sides of the ball. They need speed. They need instincts. They need a projectable body.
When a guy flashes the ability to check a lot of those boxes, it shouldn't just be randomly dismissed for God knows what reason.

Regardless of whether he's trade bait or not, given his tools, we shouldn't treat him like he's trade bait. It lowers his value. There's no need to punish ourselves for doing our job (developing him) well. The other teams are going to do that for us.



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I dunno about his wheels. his speed is pretty average. but his arm is real +. was a better pitcher than a hitter out of high school too.
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#654 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:23 pm

with Zach Britton still dealing with his arm injury tho, Alex Verdugo seems like a very steep price to pay, even in a packaged deal. there is no guarantee that Britton can even make 1 good playoff appearance while under a contract with us. he will hit the free agency in 2019, and if this "forearm strain" turns out to be a prolonged attempt at rehabbing his elbow, he could still end up needing a surgery as soon as the trade is made. flexor mass muscle strain in the forearm is usually an early sign of needing TJS.
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Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#655 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:11 pm

Fangraphs has him as having "respectable" speed with their current "50" on an 20-80 scale.

Kid has 8 SBs and 1 CS.

At some point the fact that he can hang in CF and can steal bases cant just be solely attributed to his instincts (which he has btw).

Hes not a burner but he has solid wheels for an OF. I expect 1st to 3rds on singles. 1st to homes on doubles.

If that's average, fine. A team is getting average speed with good instincts to the tune of solid OF defense and the ability to swipe bags.


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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#656 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Fangraphs has him as having "respectable" speed with their current "50" on an 20-80 scale.

Kid has 8 SBs and 1 CS.

At some point the fact that he can hang in CF and can steal bases cant just be solely attributed to his instincts (which he has btw).

Hes not a burner but he has solid wheels for an OF. I expect 1st to 3rds on singles. 1st to homes on doubles.

If that's average, fine. A team is getting average speed with good instincts to the tune of solid OF defense and the ability to swipe bags.


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in 20/80 scale, the dead on average is 45. being 50 means he is just slightly above average, thus... pretty much average. but nobody ever scores 20 or 80. 30 and 70 are hard to see but with pitchers, you see guys with fastballs rated 70 time to time. 40 and 50 are the range you often see guys in, but kids who are rated 45 or below across the board as prospects, usually never make it to the show. among the guys who make it to the big league, 50 is the normal average... at least in speed.

but any who, Joc used to run up 30 SBs in the minors every season, but that didn't translate to the bigs. I doubt Verdugo can do better. Alex has a much better instinct and possibly the fundamentals. he is, in my eyes, is much more of a center fielder(if he can stick as one) in the mold of devon white than Ken Griffey Jr or Brett Butler.

BTW speaking of outfielders with arms, did you watch **** throw that ball from the warning track in the corner of the RF to the 3rd base on a one hopper? it was almost like watching the prime Ichiro. I think Alex is best suited in the majors as a RF. I think his HRs will come as he gets older and stronger. 6-0 200 pounder as of now, i think its a matter of time until he becomes a perennial 15-20 HR guy as he has the frame. although this season, he has regressed and has hit only 3 dingers so far.

I really like Alex, don't get me wrong. I think Alex for Britton is a raw deal for us, because of the uncertainties surrounding Zach's elbow. but as Ranma also states, it is hard to envision Verdugo making this club, especially as a starting OFer. we have Joc/Puig/Taylor just killing it right now, and when Gonzo is back, Bellinger will play in the LF. then there is ****, Thompson, even a potential return of Guti. I just hope when the deal is made with Alex as the center piece, we get a deal that is worthy of letting such a young, promising player go.
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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#657 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:32 am

Walker Buehler to AAA!


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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#658 » by Neddy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:12 am

I am not sure if it is for the best to move him to the pen, but there surely is a ton of talk about Walker going to the bullpen come september.
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Buehler & Font Making Headlines for OKC in AAA 

Post#659 » by Ranma » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:01 am

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Re: Prospects and trade discussion 

Post#660 » by Neddy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:13 am

come 2018, even if we let Kershaw go, we would still have

Wood-Hill-McCarthy-Maeda-Ryu-Urias-Stewart-Striping-Oaks.

of course I want Clayton back, but I also want Otani. if we can't have both, I would rather go for the younger of the two.
ehhhhh f it.

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