Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers: Discuss!

[Kilroy]

The Marlins continued their sell-off early Wednesday when they traded third baseman Hanley Ramirez and left-handed reliever Randy Choate to the Dodgers for right-hander Nate Eovaldi and minor league pitcher Scott McGough.

The trade was announced after the Dodgers' game in St. Louis against the Cardinals on Tuesday night, and hours after the Marlins played the Braves in Miami.

Read more: http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ ... z21eVfToSC

Nice score for the Bums...

Looks like this team is serious for the first time in a long time.

[LocLaker]

[TyCobb]

Great trade for the Dodgers

[dockingsched]

vernon wells contract in the making

[Neddy]

please stay away from groundball pitchers this off season if hanley is our starting SS going into 2013...

[Neddy]

vernon wells contract in the making

his deal is over in 2 years, not sure what you are referring to here.

your post is more relevant to carl crawford's contract.

[Kilroy]

vernon wells contract in the making

his deal is over in 2 years, not sure what you are referring to here.

your post is more relevant to carl crawford's contract.

Ignore Dock... He's a shameless Angels fan.

[Quake Griffin]

please stay away from groundball pitchers this off season if hanley is our starting SS going into 2013...

he wasn't always bad at SS.

he has a shot...a real shot at being decent next year.
he has a new team, new surroundings, new players to push him....i think the commitment he's making in winter ball will help and i think he's gonna be way better for us there then he was last year.

[Neddy]

his defensive ratings show Hanley has costed us roughly 4 more runs than an average SS last season. his batting has declined across the board in last few years and his once leadoff man worthy speed is gone as well. compare him to luis cruz hanley makes luis look like ozzie smith, at least defensive advanced stat wise.

[Quake Griffin]

his defensive ratings show Hanley has costed us roughly 4 more runs than an average SS last season. his batting has declined across the board in last few years and his once leadoff man worthy speed is gone as well. compare him to luis cruz hanley makes luis look like ozzie smith, at least defensive advanced stat wise.

what?
hanley is still fast on the base pads.

u gotta keep in mind this dude spent his whole offseason taking 3rd base reps....and then got thrown into the fire...im still not sure exactly why donnie made him play short instead of 3rd.

hes rededicating himself to the position.
he actually cares now and is motivated.
and we have mark mcgwire for his bat/ plate approach.

im expecting a huge year from him.

[Neddy]

i hope it is just that of mental approach or not getting practice or rep at his position, but

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ha01.shtml

his Rfield is -8..... MINUS 8! and his WAA is -0.1, again, MINUS... and WAR is whopping 0.6... his offense is good as a SS but his defense leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least.

[Neddy]

hey Q, don't think i'm trashing Hanley as a horrible baseball player here, he did post 110+ OPS+ and has a good value as a infielder offensively, just saying his defense has never been above average even in his prime as a SS and has fallen off to very bottom among SS in terms of defensive stats. if the dodgers continue to play him at short (which by looks of it he will be) his overall offensive value is 4 times higher as a SS than as a 3B.

but his 40+ SB days are gone, his good to great OBP have not resurfaced in last 2 years, and i just prefer that we move him to 3B unless we go out and sign a 3B with a good bat. the problem with that is, only kevin youkilis is out there as a 3b FA and his 230 BA and 750-ish OPS is not better than luis cruz. kevin still posts 100 points higher OBP than his BA but as a 7th batter higher OBP will be wasted more often than not in NL. i guess another question to be asked is whether or not luis cruz can repeat what he did in half a season ever again.

back to the point, hanley's bat is great for a SS, good for a 3B but even his offense alone isn't a superstar worthy as he once was, and his lack of OBP relative to his BA lately makes me want to bring him down the lineup a bit too. his next year projection i see is around .270 BA .325OBP .450SLG with yet again 110+ OPS+. i think that is okay 5th, good to great 6th, excellent 7th batter in the lineup.

[Quake Griffin]

ur not expecting any improvement with Mark Mcgwire as hitting coach?
I am.

i understand his problems at SS....but I think he can be average after a full offseason where he's dedicated with pressure to return to top form...and he has to give a crap now


I've played GM scenarios in my mind over and over and I srsly just wished the Doyers would trade for Jed Lowrie and put him at our 3b bag if Hanley is gonna be at SS.

I'm not sold on Luis Cruz...i want the switch bat in the lineup...and Lowrie is good on the hot corner.
i just have 0 idea why they haven't got this guy yet.
i guess we're under some delusion that Hanley at SS or 3B with the question of Dee and Luis Cruz is a "good problem to have"

[Neddy]

Dee is the worst defensive SS in the majors in year 2012, period. he needs to be send back to the minors to work out the kink at SS or work on being a 2B so he can step in once mark ellis' contract is up. he has no business right now to even hold a SS glove at the big leagues.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=24,a

between hanley and dee, i take hanley at short everytime... dee is THAT bad, at least right now.

luis on the other hand, is very respectful defender. i'll take him at anywhere infield. i can trust his glove.

[Quake Griffin]

Dee is the worst defensive SS in the majors in year 2012, period. he needs to be send back to the minors to work out the kink at SS or work on being a 2B so he can step in once mark ellis' contract is up. he has no business right now to even hold a SS glove at the big leagues.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=24,a

between hanley and dee, i take hanley at short everytime... dee is THAT bad, at least right now.

luis on the other hand, is very respectful defender. i'll take him at anywhere infield. i can trust his glove.

if we make no moves....i like Cruz.
and I like him on the 3rd base bag...he's best there....depends on how hanley looks in ST though

it's sad that that is the truth about Dee....but he had his chance..he's not hitting/ drawing walks and was awful in the field...he's lucky he's not 25 yet...being 27/28 could have spelled the end for him.

random thought though.
OT:
what are ur thoughts about trading Andre, Moving Matt to right and getting a good CF in there?
it's something I've wanted them to do all offseason but i know they won't cuz it'll hurt his feelings

[Neddy]

good center fielder as of... michael borne? as long as the contract is not too horrible, having him will help to create better balanced lineup, and borne-crawford-kemp-gonzo-hanley would be a great 1 through 5. but i wouldn't give up ethier for someone like cliff lee, who's got even more atrocious looking contract at his age.
i would hate to see us dump ethier and sign hamilton, i think he is a fools gold.

in the end, i like having ethier, it allows us to call up puig and use him as a platton player. hell, we are rich, why not pay that much for platton guys?

[Quake Griffin]

yea...M. Bourne (I'm not sure why it seems like Upton is the guy ppl want in this FA CF market)...move kemp to right.
trade ethier and an arm for elvis andrus or something like that...put Hanley on the hot corner.

we're not strong up the center...i can't act like Han-Ram at SS and Kemp at CF (our most important positions) is a good look for us defensively.


I like andre...but at 30 he's tradable to me in a way that Carl Crawford isn't....and we might as well get started getting Yasiel used to being out there.


I want a 4th OF too
maybe Nick Swisher....switch hit...can cover 1b when Gonzo needs a blow.


lemme know when i should stop playing GM...but i like my scenarios

[Neddy]

yeah carl is a prototypical player who is losing value as he ages because his game relied so much on his speed. once a great base thief, he has not kept himself in good shape and he is overweighted for his frame and size to be a speedy player, and he has never been a HR hitter as his career high is 19 right before he signed that monster deal with boston. he still is a good defender, but his OBP for some odd reason disappeared for the most part in last season, i guess it was his elbow bothering his swing and hopefully that is over now.

yasiel puig is a total mystery because for a guy to get that big of a contract and not be major ready, he has tore up the rookie league and very respectable numbers in class A. i fully expect him to tear up the AA and make a move to AAA before the minor league season is over next year, and get a sept callup. i don't know if he can help us through the fat part of the next season but he will most likely be there competing for a corner OF job in 2014 spring training.

i think NIck is looking for a starter gig and nothing less. he would be a great luxury off the bench, but signing kevin youkilis for bench would solve 3B/1B/pinch hitter role, i am curious about it since he always posts 100 points higher OBP over his BA, and his mediocre year power is better than carl's best year.

we need a pinch runner off the bench, and if dee is still in plans for the future, he obviously needs to play everyday at AAA so tony gwynn jr can be a good value for that role. hairston jr is pencilled in as our 4th OF as of now, but would like to see him play IF and sign a power bat 4th OF. that creates a big logjam in IF bench position tho. #1 that becomes obvious is to get rid of Uribe. i just don't know any team that would be interested in getting a .1XX BA player with nearly 8 digit salary..... Luis Cruz must stay on our 25 men roster as he earned it. nick punto is still under the contract and he is a capable player at least defensively. and then there are ellian(sp?) herrera... we just also signed nick evans who was a met fan favorite 1B/3B/LF guy, and then there still is justin sellers whom i believe is running out of options after next season. waaaaaay too many average IFs.. well done Ned Colletti.

[Neddy]

i am revisiting this thread because i have some stuff i need to get off my chest.

we have a "trade ethier" thread and i already discussed how this might come about, but rather prefer to get rid of carl crawford instead, as i have expressed numerous times before. carl is doing very well, and it is time to sell high. ethier isn't doing as well, and we won't get much return with him as a bait. but the more pressing issue is that, carl has never been a guy who performed at much higher OBP from his BA. this year is not exactly a typical representation of his skillset. 5 HRs at 1/4 way into the season, batting around .301, higher than his career average and certainly much better than his last 2 years in boston, with .361 OBP that is way above his career average, in fact he only recorded once in 12 years of his playing time to accomplish that kind of OBP before. carl is going to be making 20 million or more per year for the next 5 years including this year, and no way he will ever perform better in dodger blue than what he has shown so far.
ethier on the other hand is under achieving based on his career numbers so far, he is a bit cheaper, but most importantly, he can be inserted in various places in the lineup card than carl. carl is exclusively a #2 batter or a leadoff hitter. he won't be a 3-4-5-6 type of RBI producer. since you quake, has been talking about ian kinsler, the better option to trade away in that scenario for us is carl, not ethier.

i know in the end, the dodger brass will trade ethier away before carl is gone since that is the easier move to make and Ned would be damned to trade away the guy who is performing much better in the eyes of the fans so far.

lastly, i want to make a point that we need to rest kemp. his shoulder may not be right, but it is his defensive decisions that are just killing me on nightly basis. he misjudges flyballs and allow a single into a double way too often for my liking. he needs to relearn his plate discipline, and his defensive discipline. he is a young player who started baseball little late in age, it is okay if he needs some time off from the majors and retrain some basics while healing his body. meanwhile, i suggest we move hanley to bat 3rd in the lineup and have gonzo protect him. we can use hanley's power bat while kemp is recouping his mind and body. forget this season, if we gain grounds later and make the playoffs, great. but we should not push our guys who are clearly not cutting it to the ground trying to gain ground on them right now.

that's it for now. it's my latest drunken rant.

[Quake Griffin]

I see Ethier in a completely different light than you.

he sucks against left handers and is a slightly below average right fielder. If he's not hitting HRs and booming doubles, I don't understand what he's doing for me. He's on the other side of 30 which means if his numbers aren't where they're supposed to be, more than likely is some sort of regression....if he's not going to hit left handers, then he really is just a 17 million per year platoon player that an AL team can use as a DH and as utility.

for the most part, Crawford will make a gaff here or there in the field/ look ugly as hell making a catch, but he will cover the ground. at 32 years of age, he can still hack and more importantly how slow is his slow going to be if he loses a step? 2 ways I take of looking at CC:

1. If he's slightly worse than tampa CC, he's 10 times better than anything we've had in LF since Manny
2. How long does he have to play well for his contract/ deal to be worth it? He's 32 by the end of this year...but say he plays well for ages 33 and 34....does it matter if the last 2 years are not worth it and we call up Joc?


Kemp is just terrible. He's always been suspect on defense...he' not a CF...srsly pisses me off letting singles turn into long doubles. His shoulder isn't allowing him any plate coverage. His bat is slow. 95+ blows him away. I don't think he's hit a fast ball on the outside (which he used to pushed oppo) in about 3 weeks....he swings through everything that he would normally kill. He has one fake HR to RF in Citi Field and one he pulled in Miller, a hitter's park (I was there for this YES!)....i need a hit chart for him....but Ive watched every game this year...no home runs to right center...no booming doubles into those gaps either...

our next day off is June 13th....rest him the 12th, the day off and the 1st game at Pitt.
(and give him a day or 2 during this long stretch until the 13th)....but he really needs to take the day off, shag balls, take BP and just watch the game....he sucks.