Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers: Discuss!

[Quake Griffin]

i hear you on Hanley batting 3rd.
if Kemp or A-Gon get any sort of power back, I want Hanley at lead off (given we don't trade for Kinsler).

big if.


alao, Joc Pederson is going to be dealt...I'm kind of over it.
Kemp's deal (which is the one i expect to suck the most out of them all) is going to keep him with us until 36....we're not going to deal him to make room for Joc.
Joc's rap sheet is that he's surprising everybody with the bat after being drafted in the 11th round....but he doesn't have corner outfield power or CF range.

where does he go?
Yasiel is a RF...which means Ethier is the only one that's going to go.

i don't see this FO giving our OF a makeover more than Crawford-Kemp-Puig. If Pederson does come up....we will have sat on him for a long ass time and Crawford will be about 34 or 35.
why do that?

there's Kinsler to be had.

[Neddy]

hey don't get mad as i am about to shred your post

I see Ethier in a completely different light than you.

you have no idea how wrong you are with your ideas.

he sucks against left handers and is a slightly below average right fielder.

and carl doesn't? now here is another classic fallacy too many dodger fans make. they see ethier over the years swinging and miss against lefties more often than against righties, and automatically writes him off as "horrible" split player, and yet they do not hold the same ideology against a new player who they haven't seen over the years who produces the same stat line.

carl's career split OPS, against RHP vs LHP = .809 vs .692
andre's career split OPS, against RHP vs LHP = .907 vs .651

andre holds 0.041 point disadvantage to carl against left handed pitching, while absolutely crushing carl against right handed hitting by 0.998 points. do you realize how much greater that is? if james loney had .100 higher OPS, he would still be in dodger blue and they wouldn't have been that blockbuster trade with boston.

do you really want to lose out on .998 advantage, more than half the time,(as MLB have more than half of its pitchers who are right handed, starters especially.) to gain advantage 0.041 little less than the other half the time? is that even logical?

If he's not hitting HRs and booming doubles, I don't understand what he's doing for me.

carl doesn't even do that. in 8 seasons as a major leaguer for andre, he crushes carl in total HRs even tho carl had 4 more seasons to add to his total, which is 50 % more playing time for carl, he only manages to hit about 30 more doubles in his entire career. for a guy with supposed speed, that is horrible. career OBP, career SLG, career walk rate, andre is the superior player. in only 2/3 of major league service time, again, ethier has managed to out BB carl in total numbers as well as average per season, and have you looked at their career OPS+ numbers? andre is a head and shoulder above carl. I would take the guy who has proven to hit for more HR power, hit with more gap power, hit with more patience, and have not slight, but clearly a head and shoulder better OPS and OPS+ numbers. not even close.

He's on the other side of 30 which means if his numbers aren't where they're supposed to be, more than likely is some sort of regression....

you do realize andre is younger than carl, right? if ethier is on the wrong side of the 30, carl has one foot in his grave.

if he's not going to hit left handers, then he really is just a 17 million per year platoon player that an AL team can use as a DH and as utility.

you don't want a 17 million a year platoon player? then you must love 21 million a year platoon player since statistically they are essentially the same player against LHP.

for the most part, Crawford will make a gaff here or there in the field/ look ugly as hell making a catch, but he will cover the ground.

lol wut?

i have heard of this argument before. it wasn't about carl tho, it was an argument for juan pierre. a guy who gaffs here and there, have no arm strength and look ugly as well making a catch, but he will cover the ground.

you see the problem here with your argument?

at 32 years of age, he can still hack and more importantly how slow is his slow going to be if he loses a step? 2 ways I take of looking at CC:

1. If he's slightly worse than tampa CC, he's 10 times better than anything we've had in LF since Manny

no. carl is actually playing the best baseball of his career right now. he is on pace to achieve his career high in HRs and 2Bs this season, and his OPS+ is 9 points higher than ever before at any point of his 12 year career. his OBP is also the career high mark, right now. he has never been a better player, and he never will. this is the very high point of his performance whether it is in dodger blue or any other uniform. the time to sell this guy has never been better.

2. How long does he have to play well for his contract/ deal to be worth it? He's 32 by the end of this year...but say he plays well for ages 33 and 34....does it matter if the last 2 years are not worth it and we call up Joc?

never. as i said, he is playing the best baseball of his entire life, right now. and there is no way a guy of his stats right now, and what he is projected to do, even without any injury or slump is worth what he is making. if it was, we all owe apology to juan pierre. he did exactly just what carl is doing, minus HRs and SLGs but also made a half of carl's salary, yet the dodger fans booed him at home games. and remember, carl is owed more than 20 million a year and he won't be a FA until 2018. let me repeat that. he won't be a FA until 2018. unless carl can play up to current level all the way to 2018, he is a deadweight. even if he performs to this level until 2018, he is highly over paid.

more importantly, i didn't have a chance to express that carl crawford's game is based on his athleticism alot. he uses his speed to extend extra bases since he lacks in SLG department. he covers outfield reasonably well but have little arm strength to hold runners from advancing. see where im getting at? speed is the first part of your game that will leave you as you age, unless your name is rickey henderson. ethier's game is all about acquired skills at the plate. he will certainly last longer and age better through out his contract. and yeah, andre's last year can be bought out for 2.5 million if you don't like how andre is playing by then.

Kemp is just terrible. He's always been suspect on defense...he' not a CF...srsly pisses me off letting singles turn into long doubles. His shoulder isn't allowing him any plate coverage. His bat is slow. 95+ blows him away. I don't think he's hit a fast ball on the outside (which he used to pushed oppo) in about 3 weeks....he swings through everything that he would normally kill. He has one fake HR to RF in Citi Field and one he pulled in Miller, a hitter's park (I was there for this YES!)....i need a hit chart for him....but Ive watched every game this year...no home runs to right center...no booming doubles into those gaps either...

our next day off is June 13th....rest him the 12th, the day off and the 1st game at Pitt.
(and give him a day or 2 during this long stretch until the 13th)....but he really needs to take the day off, shag balls, take BP and just watch the game....he sucks.

kemp is not 100% obviously in the head, and probably not with his shoulder either. yes i agree with you that he is an average CF who gambles way too much, but he is certainly better than anything else we've got down in the minors at CF option. i see a lot of castellanos hysteria breaking out in other dodger forums, and it reminds me of the time when trayvon robinson, or reggie abercrombie were coming up. so what happened to trayvon now? reggie? castellanos is nothing to hang your hat on. he won't be a power hitter in the majors, it is doubtful he could hit for average, his speed is similar to kemp, maybe better defensive center fielder but that is also arguable. arm? kemp is ahead. castellanos is a utility player in the making. only OFer prospect right now that has a stud potential is puig, and he is a corner.

[Neddy]

i h
alao, Joc Pederson is going to be dealt...I'm kind of over it.
Kemp's deal (which is the one i expect to suck the most out of them all) is going to keep him with us until 36....we're not going to deal him to make room for Joc.
Joc's rap sheet is that he's surprising everybody with the bat after being drafted in the 11th round....but he doesn't have corner outfield power or CF range.

where does he go?
Yasiel is a RF...which means Ethier is the only one that's going to go.

might as well move kemp to RF and bring up puig to LF, and trade both carl and ethier.

[Neddy]

217 million salary seems harmless since we've got that 7 billion TV deal, but spending a lot of money is very different from spending a lot of money unwisely. Ned is wasting our money on players who are not worth it, and this will hinder us from actually signing players that are worth it in the future. we need to clean the house of wasted contracts in order to look forward to the deals that can get us over the top. carl, josh, maybe even ethier will not only eat up our payroll and block a future FA signings, but also blocks young promising kids from their well deserved promotion.

i wish Ned had the balls to promote puig and platoon him with two lefty outfielders we have. puig won't end up playing a true platoon OFer minutes, as both corners are not only lefties but older guys who need dayoffs and one of them is coming off a major injury with scheduled dayoffs already. if puig can play 67% of fulltime, it is worth it for both him and the dodgers.


PS- hey what the hell happened to your post before mine? the post i was responding to just disappeared

[Kilroy]

Hey guys, I moved a bunch of the in game stuff to the sticky game thread.
I'll be doing that in the rest of the threads too... It doesn't make a lot of sense to bury it in these threads, so let's keep it there so we can follow what goes on throughout the season easier.

[Neddy]

aiirite boss. you got it.