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2016-2017 off season thread.

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2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#1 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:50 am

**** me.

season is over now.


well at least we were not supposed to be here in the game 6 of NLCS in the first place. hats off to Theo and his crew although that cannon going off just when Joc took his first at bat was BS.

this one hurts but Im sure Andrew Friedman and his men are ready to get us to where the Cubs are in two years.

so, the first topic I want to propose is... who is the second baseman next season? as I mentioned in the post season thread just now, Neil Walker is available. I like his bat although WIllie is also another year or two from being ready. where do we go from here?
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#2 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:52 am

... and regarding Toles and Reddick.

I am a little less angry at Toles now. but I still have major questions whether Reddick is really better than Puig.
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Roster Turnover Thoughts Immediately After NLCS Elimination 

Post#3 » by Ranma » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:23 am

Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:we need a better balanced lineup next season. we are too lefty heavy.

Neddy wrote:Neil Walker is a free agent. do we resign Utley? or do we go with Kendrick at second? Neil is a switch hitter too who crushes lefty arms while still posting slightly better than league average against righties.


I want to make signing Lourdes Gurriel, Jr. a priority this season. His versatility has him capable of playing all over the diamond except for 1B, C, and P but I like the idea of him at 2B backing up SS and maybe eventually moving to 3B if Seager doesn't move there soon. He's a better version of Kike Hernandez. He might need a season or two in the minors since he hasn't played competitive baseball regularly for 2 seasons or so.

Not sure I want to sign Neil Walker as I want someone more athletic for the long-term. As a stopgap I'd probably stick with Kendrick at 2B for now but he grounds into so many double plays that we might have to use him at the leadoff spot to limit the damage he's been doing if we don't bat him at the bottom of the order. It's also time to move on from Utley. His bat is of no use to us given that it has no staying power towards the 2nd half of the season and into the postseason; he even flubbed a couple of plays in the field.

I'm not sure I want to overhaul the roster for next season but I definitely want changes. I still want Ethier gone. I'm not sure I can give Toles another shot at redemption for us despite his potential. Dude choked twice during 2 key moments that led to our collapses. He's either a goat or a mole and I'm not keen on either.

Barnes has to be on the roster for next season. We also have to initiate the process of replacing Gonzalez. Bellinger is not quite ready but we need to groom him for the transition now.

I'm pretty much over Blanton too. Yeah, he pitched well during the regular season but what's the point if we can't count on him at all during the postseason?
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Re: Roster Turnover Thoughts Immediately After NLCS Elimination 

Post#4 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:34 am

Ranma wrote:
Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:we need a better balanced lineup next season. we are too lefty heavy.

Neddy wrote:Neil Walker is a free agent. do we resign Utley? or do we go with Kendrick at second? Neil is a switch hitter too who crushes lefty arms while still posting slightly better than league average against righties.


I want to make signing Lourdes Gurriel, Jr. a priority this season. His versatility has him capable of playing all over the diamond except for 1B, C, and P but I like the idea of him at 2B backing up SS and maybe eventually moving to 3B if Seager doesn't move there soon. He's a better version of Kike Hernandez. He might need a season or two in the minors since he hasn't played competitive baseball regularly for 2 seasons or so.

Not sure I want to sign Neil Walker as I want someone more athletic for the long-term. As a stopgap I'd probably stick with Kendrick at 2B for now but he grounds into so many double plays that we might have to use him at the leadoff spot to limit the damage he's been doing if we don't bat him at the bottom of the order. It's also time to move on from Utley. His bat is of no use to us given that it has no staying power towards the 2nd half of the season and into the postseason; he even flubbed a couple of plays in the field.

I'm not sure I want to overhaul the roster for next season but I definitely want changes. I still want Ethier gone. I'm not sure I can give Toles another shot at redemption for us despite his potential. Dude choked twice during 2 key moments that led to our collapses. He's either a goat or a mole and I'm not keen on either.

Barnes has to be on the roster for next season. We also have to initiate the process of replacing Gonzalez. Bellinger is not quite ready but we need to groom him for the transition now.

I'm pretty much over Blanton too. Yeah, he pitched well during the regular season but what's the point if we can't count on him at all during the postseason?


yeah Gurriel is a real prize for sure. not all that confident we can get him since the Astros got his brother and they expressed wanting to play together. but Im also sure we have the money that they don't.

I really wonder where the new agreement is with the Japanese league. Otani just lost the first game in Japan series to our old freind's club Hiroshima Carp but it is amazing that this kid just about alone carried that inferior Nippon Ham Fighters all the way to the Japan series. I want this guy and I want him bad. he can be right away our #2 pitcher behind Kershaw and be an OFer when not starting. he is gonna be the best hitting NL pitcher at minimum.

I agree Austin Barnes need to be on the roster next season. no question about that. Toles is on the bubble for me too. seems like a great story and a piece to add for a trade packeage now.

Blanton IMO was never supposed to be that 2nd guy in the closer/SU role. Royals used him right and that is his role. I would not mind him back as long as we use him in the role we currently have Baez and Avilan are being used as. but as the guy we are currently using him for, no thanks.
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Outlook on the Outfield 

Post#5 » by Ranma » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:38 am

Neddy wrote:... and regarding Toles and Reddick.

I am a little less angry at Toles now. but I still have major questions whether Reddick is really better than Puig.


I'm still angry at Toles and I foresee being bitter with him for a while. I'm still leaving open for the the possibility of his return for next season but he's on the outs with me right now. Ethier is still on my to-go list. As we've discussed earlier in the postseason thread, I want the best players on the roster so I'm opposed to trading Puig in order to keep Reddick, especially since Puig is the better defender in RF. If we can keep Reddick at a reasonable cost, I want him in LF. CF is between Pederson and Thompson right now with Joc having the edge at the moment.

I can actually see us having a real shot at getting Bryce Harper in 2018 free agency as I am currently under the impression that he wants to sign here. I'm for it as long as the cost is not too much and does not preclude us from pursuing Manny Machado, who is my preferred target.

I've already talked about Lourdes Gurriel, Jr. but I also want to note that I posted a tweet referencing a recent article about Shohei Ohtani in the International Draft/Signing thread. We certainly could have used him in the playoffs even with his inexperience. If Ohtani is available, he has to be our top priority period.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#6 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:40 am

also, the FA market for starting pitchers are extremely thin this upcoming off season. despite the terrible showing there is a good chance Kazmir opts out. I am not sure just like like everybody else where McCarthy and Ryu are at this point, but if we don't resign Hill, this is gonna be another patch-up rotation come next season.

the question I suppose is, do we even want Kazmir back?
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Re: Outlook on the Outfield 

Post#7 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:42 am

Ranma wrote:
Neddy wrote:... and regarding Toles and Reddick.

I am a little less angry at Toles now. but I still have major questions whether Reddick is really better than Puig.


I'm still angry at Toles and I foresee being bitter with him for a while. I'm still leaving open for the the possibility of his return for next season but he's on the outs with me right now. Ethier is still on my to-go list. As we've discussed earlier in the postseason thread, I want the best players on the roster so I'm opposed to trading Puig in order to keep Reddick, especially since Puig is the better defender in RF. If we can keep Reddick at a reasonable cost, I want him in LF. CF is between Pederon and Thompson right now with Joc having the edge for now.

I can actually see us having a real shot at getting Bryce Harper in 2018 free agency as I am currently under the impression that he wants to sign here. I'm for it as long as the cost is not too much and does not preclude us from pursuing Manny Machado, who is my preferred target.

I've already talked about Lourdes Gurriel, Jr. but I also want to note that I posted a tweet referencing a recent article about Shohei Ohtani in the International Draft/Signing thread. We certainly could have used him in the playoffs even with his inexperience. If Ohtani is available, he has to be our top priority period.


I wonder if Andre can convert to 1B? and that is only if we can trade Gonzo away. we coud pair him up with SVS to platoon the first base until Bellinger is ready.

Reddick as a LF is probably a good idea. but Dave and Andrew needs to be convinced that Puig is capable of being an everyday RFer first.
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Ethier at 1B 

Post#8 » by Ranma » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:53 am

Neddy wrote:I wonder if Andre can convert to 1B? and that is only if we can trade Gonzo away. we coud pair him up with SVS to platoon the first base until Bellinger is ready.

Reddick as a LF is probably a good idea. but Dave and Andrew needs to be convinced that Puig is capable of being an everyday RFer first.


I actually like your proposal of platooning Ethier and Van Slyke at 1B. We'd have to be sure that Bellinger is close to ready if we're moving on from A-Gon but I've always anticipated trading Gonzalez during the trade deadline instead of the offseason to buy more developmental time for Bellinger. However, going back to your idea, Neddy: playing Ethier at 1B like we've been doing with Kendrick in LF is borderline genius. It actually has me looking forward to having Ethier on the roster when I've been campaigning to dump him for the past few seasons. It's not like I want to extend Ethier's contract but I can actually see him helping us in that role on a regular or semi-regular basis and possibly even increasing his trade value. I doff my cap to you, fine sir.

Another good point about the front office trusting Puig in the short term, which just supports my idea of keeping Reddick along with Puig. If Yasiel acts up again, we ship him out for good this time and Reddick moves back to RF. At the same time, I view both of these guys as placeholders right now who each have the upside to possibly become mainstays with improved performance. However, the front office wants to win a championship next season (don't we all?) so they want to resolve it right away. That urgency could end up backfiring on us IMO since I don't see the need right now given the circumstances unless something presents itself to us later on.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#9 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:54 am

Took a moment to decompress.

Who I want gone:
- Ethier
- Baez
- A-Gon
- Puig

The theme of this offseason for me is "less is more." I want the losers, idiots, and the propensity to do something stupid out of our damn locker room. Can you honestly tell me this clubhouse respects Baez?

Deal the broken arms. There's no need for Kazmir or McCarthy. Don't try to get cute and bring back Brett Anderson on a cheap 1 year $5 million deal.

We have our franchise pitcher. We have his heir apparent.

Kershaw
Urias
Delly
Maeda
Brock Lesnar.

For depth there's Wood and Stripling in case any one of those guys gets hurt. They've already seen significant time at the major league level. There's no reason to hold them back anymore....and I'm certainly not holding them back for broken, oft-injured pitchers who dont even have ace ceilings when healthy.

If we clear out the garbage, then I will entertain trades. I dont want a lot of moves. Maybe we can trade for Matt Duffy and put him at 2nd...but that's the only thing I'm interested so far.

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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#10 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:58 am

I dont want another one of these guys taking a roster spot from Austin Barnes.

He can catch and play 2nd.
He bats well in the minors. I like this kid and his make up. I want him to get regular reps at the major league level. Hes worked with all of our young guys as well.

I cannot go another year with him being off the roster for a guy like SVS (sorry Neddy).


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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#11 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:00 am

^ with Brock Lesnar, I suppose you meant Otani.

we have to get the agreement taken care of first before we can seriously consider Shohei Otani on our roster. meanwhile the Ham Fighters ( I know it is Nippon Ham ---- Fighters but I love calling them Ham fighters) are losing in Japan Series and I hope young Otani don't get any funny ideas about wanting his team a champion before he comes over here.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#12 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:03 am

Quake Griffin wrote:I dont want another one of these guys taking a roster spot from Austin Barnes.

He can catch and play 2nd.
He bats well in the minors. I like this kid and his make up. I want him to get regular reps at the major league level. Hes worked with all of our young guys as well.

I cannot go another year with him being off the roster for a guy like SVS (sorry Neddy).


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In with mentally tough guys and winners.


SVS does not compete a roster spot with Austin. he is a catcher. we won't be resigning Ruiz. SVS cannot catch.

if you want SVS off the roster with Austin on, which I also want Austin on the roster, then we should consider a short term deal with Daeho Lee. he smashed better than 30 Hrs a season rate as a platoon player for Seattle and his split in his career is better against the arms he was not allowed hit against.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#13 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:07 am

Neddy wrote:^ with Brock Lesnar, I suppose you meant Otani.

we have to get the agreement taken care of first before we can seriously consider Shohei Otani on our roster. meanwhile the Ham Fighters ( I know it is Nippon Ham ---- Fighters but I love calling them Ham fighters) are losing in Japan Series and I hope young Otani don't get any funny ideas about wanting his team a champion before he comes over here.


Nah. I meant Brock Stewart. I like him for out 5 hole.

If Otani is in the cards though, then for sure.

Is he going to make a funk about wanting to hit and be an everyday player?
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#14 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:16 am

Quake Griffin wrote:
Neddy wrote:^ with Brock Lesnar, I suppose you meant Otani.

we have to get the agreement taken care of first before we can seriously consider Shohei Otani on our roster. meanwhile the Ham Fighters ( I know it is Nippon Ham ---- Fighters but I love calling them Ham fighters) are losing in Japan Series and I hope young Otani don't get any funny ideas about wanting his team a champion before he comes over here.


Nah. I meant Brock Stewart. I like him for out 5 hole.

If Otani is in the cards though, then for sure.

Is he going to make a funk about wanting to hit and be an everyday player?


we are gonna need about 8 starters considering potential injuries.

I would keep McCarthy and Ryu simply for that reason too.

Kershaw - Urias - De Leon - Maeda - Stewart won't get it done alone. you can count on Kershaw having a month or two on DL with his back issue. I don't think his back is a temporary issue. this is the same problem that kept him out of action for 2 months coming back from Australia too. Urias at age 21 will ceratinly have innings limited around 150 to 170 ish tops. De Leon is older and wont have the same issues but he is even less experienced than Urias. Maeda I am certain in next season or two will break down. most Japanese/Korean pitchers break down after 2 seasons because of our 4 day rest rotation compared to them pitching once a week. Maeda alreay comes with a blemish on his health record. Stewart may be a real thing or maybe he isn't. I like Ross too but I would never count on Stripling/Wood/Stewart types to be depended on to start a season. they to me are the back up plans. Wood and Stripling would work out well as set up men imo.
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Pitching Rotation 

Post#15 » by Ranma » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:18 am

Neddy wrote:also, the FA market for starting pitchers are extremely thin this upcoming off season. despite the terrible showing there is a good chance Kazmir opts out. I am not sure just like like everybody else where McCarthy and Ryu are at this point, but if we don't resign Hill, this is gonna be another patch-up rotation come next season.

the question I suppose is, do we even want Kazmir back?

Quake Griffin wrote:Deal the broken arms. There's no need for Kazmir or McCarthy. Don't try to get cute and bring back Brett Anderson on a cheap 1 year $5 million deal.

We have our franchise pitcher. We have his heir apparent.

Kershaw
Urias
Delly
Maeda
Brock Lesnar.

For depth there's Wood and Stripling in case any one of those guys gets hurt. They've already seen significant time at the major league level. There's no reason to hold them back anymore....and I'm certainly not holding them back for broken, oft-injured pitchers who dont even have ace ceilings when healthy.


I hope Neddy is right that Kazmir will opt out given the barren environment for starting pitchers in the 2016 free-agent market. Quake makes a reasonable point about getting cute with offering the likes of Anderson and Kazmir (should he opt-out) qualifying offers but I'm still tempted to do so given the circumstances, especially with Kazmir. If Kazmir opts out, we still win by getting him on a shorter contract or a draft pick as compensation. If he opts out, it's practically assured he'll reject the qualifying offer. Anderson, on the other hand, is the riskier proposition in terms of offering the QO. I'm still tempted to do it at the risk of being stuck with him, but even then we'd roll the dice on him rebounding and upping his value for next season.

I was pretty down about our starting rotation until Quake listed out his starters. Kershaw is obviously the ace, but having Urias and De Leon in the rotation alleviates my concerns. However, I'd prefer that Urias be the #3 starter with De Leon at #4 and Maeda at #5. This allows for Maeda and De Leon to swap places should the rookie struggle at any point during the 2016-17 MLB season. That still leaves us with a need for a #2 starter. Like Neddy said, I'm not counting on either Ryu or McCarthy but I have more confidence in there respective returns for next season compared to how I've viewed them for this past season. I don't like the idea of Brock Stewart in our rotation unless it's spot duty. I don't mind him out of the pen but I'm not sure how effective he'll be there.

I've already mentioned how valuable I think Wood and Stripling are for our bullpen for next season, particularly Wood. My concerns would be heavily alleviated if we could somehow convince Ohtani to sign with us this offseason, but I think he won't be as open to that until after next season when he's had a chance to represent Japan in the World Baseball Classic. He also loves being a 2-way player, which his current Japanese team affords him the opportunity of doing. In any case, he should be available soon. By the way, is his family name spelled "Otani" (without the "h") again? I hope so, as I've always preferred that spelling, personally.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#16 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:25 am

Well, I am not interested in depending on broken pitchers anymore. So I am out on Rich Hill and I want from under Kazmir's money, I have a soft spot for McCarthy because I think tearing his UCL is unfortunate and unlucky. I also happen to like his stuff and it seems like he fits in well around the clubhouse.

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What to do with Turner and Kenley?

Easily could yield 2 draft picks in what is supposed to be a stacked draft.

I think I'm all in on Turner coming back.
I'm leaning towards bringing Kenley back but for some reason I'm just not all in on the 4/ $60 million it's going to take.

The real incentive to sign Kenley (besudes the fact that hes great) is that the Giants will probably sign him.

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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#17 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:29 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Well, I am not interested in depending on broken pitchers anymore. So I am out on Rich Hill and I want from under Kazmir's money, I have a soft spot for McCarthy because I think tearing his UCL is unfortunate and unlucky. I also happen to like his stuff and it seems like he fits in well around the clubhouse.

_______________________

What to do with Turner and Kenley?

Easily could yield 2 draft picks in what is supposed to be a stacked draft.

I think I'm all in on Turner coming back.
I'm leaning towards bringing Kenley back but for some reason I'm just not all in on the 4/ $60 million it's going to take.

The real incentive to sign Kenley (besudes the fact that hes great) is that the Giants will probably sign him.

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we will offer QO to both Kenley and Turner. if anyone signs them despite it, good for them. my guess is both will be back. GMs today are much savvier than the ones of yesteryears.

im gonna hit the sac boys, my wife and I aren't young bucks anymore. and Quake, hope you reply back on that legal question I sent you about my employee's pending divorce.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#18 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:32 am

David Vassegh ‏@THEREAL_DV 2h2 hours ago
Corey Seager said he doesn't have an injury to one specific area. Said it was fatigue of playing more pro games than he ever has before.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#19 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:34 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:David Vassegh ‏@THEREAL_DV 2h2 hours ago
Corey Seager said he doesn't have an injury to one specific area. Said it was fatigue of playing more pro games than he ever has before.
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the answer is simple, then. grab a competent back up and lessen his work load for young Seager.
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Re: 2016-2017 off season thread. 

Post#20 » by Neddy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:49 pm

maybe his father's cancer had a lot to do with it as Kike is still such a young man, but for context, Kike was a +3.9 defensively rated SS in 2015 which is about 4 points higher than our regular, Jimmy Rollins. Kike needs to improve his bat though. I would not count on him in post season but during regular season, if he can come 75% close to his 2015 bat he should serve as a good reliable back up for 100 to 200 inngs at SS.
I like Culberson for his glove. Chris Taylor I think is a AAA body or a trade bait in a much bigger package. there are also an outside options among vets like Erick Aybar, but he might be done. for a camp invite without a guranteed contract tho, he is an option. him being a switch hitter also can serve well as a pinch hitter if he can get his bat back.
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