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New CBA Ramifications & Shohei Otani Watch

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New CBA Ramifications & Shohei Otani Watch 

Post#1 » by Ranma » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:07 am

I know the current season thread also includes an international component, but I think the new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) warrants its own separate thread, especially with relation to how it is specifically targeted at the Dodgers' efforts to sign Shohei Otani as well as future MLB free agents like Manny Machado and Bryce Harper as well as our very own Clayton Kershaw.

Ben Badler, Baseball America (7/28/17)
So, let’s say Shohei Otani were to become available to MLB teams after this season. Since he would be subject to the international bonus pools, a team by rule can only offer him a minor league contract with a signing bonus, and it would be against league rules to have a handshake deal to deliver him a major league contract after he signs.

The punishments for bonus pool circumvention, according to the CBA, include:

  • A ban on international signings of up to one year
  • Or a team having its bonus pool decreased by up to 50 percent for up to five years.

CBA Targets International Signing Violations


J.J. Cooper, Baseball America (7/28/17)
The new collective bargaining agreement has added a new wrinkle to keep teams such as the Dodgers from outspending the rest of the league by large margins.
...

Considering how reluctant teams are to part with draft picks, the new penalties put a pretty significant brake on big league spending at the highest levels. The Dodgers have consistently had the highest payroll in baseball in recent years and have exceeded the luxury tax threshold in each of the past four seasons, often with a payroll that would exceed the highest surcharge threshold under the new system.

In the past, that’s meant that the team has paid between $11.4 million and $43.7 million in luxury tax. Under the new system, that bill could get much larger. As the CBA explains, if the Dodgers (or any other team that has exceeded the luxury tax threshold for three consecutive seasons) had a $260 million payroll in 2018, they would have to pay a total luxury tax of $54.25 million and also see their first-round pick moved back 10 spots in the draft.

Any payroll beyond $237 million would be taxed at 95 percent of that amount beyond $237 million; so a $300 million payroll would carry a $92.25 million luxury tax and the draft pick penalties. The Dodgers payroll peaked at $298.3 million in 2015 and has dropped since as some large contracts have been cleared from the books. Last year, the Dodgers payroll was $252 million.

Newest CBA Could Diminish Biggest Spender’s Draft Picks


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Re: New CBA Ramifications 

Post#2 » by Neddy » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:17 am

dodger payroll will shrink considerably after 2018 season.
ehhhhh f it.
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Re: New CBA Ramifications 

Post#3 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:01 am

****.
Now a team that has scouted, drafted, and internationally signed well is penalized if they want to re-sign the players they've invested in.

Take us for example...possible future big pay days:
- Kershaw
- Seager
- Cody
- And imagine one of Urias/ Buehler/ Alvarez/ Otani if we're lucky.

Our bill is going to be a lot in the 2020s even if we don't add Manny Machado. Do we deserve to lose 10 slots for re-upping our guys?

I don't mind keeping the international market fair but to take draft slots from people decentivizes teams like us who have been aggressive drafting, internationally signing, swaping prospects etc etc.

Plus imo.
A lot of this stuff seems reactionary to what the Dodgers do.

Dodgers spend 250 mill+ a year. Penalize spending.

Dodgers spend $88 mill in int'l signing. Cap int'l spending.

If you want a salary cap, go for it. I'll fight it to the death.
But FOH at losing draft slots.


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Withstanding the Punitive Penalties 

Post#4 » by Ranma » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:31 pm

The Dodgers are in pretty good shape to get under the cap next season. That would prime us for the winter-of-2018 free-agent class. I'm still confident that we'll be big shoppers and that the front office will find a way to keep us below the threshold that would trigger dropping our draft slots 10 spots.

I've said this before but with MLB targeting the Dodgers, I'm fine with bending the rules as much as possible without breaking it in the pursuit of Shohei Otani. I wouldn't outright promise him a future major-league deal but I would signal to him that we would do so as a reward for his performance should he actually follow through and live up to projections as a dominant starting pitcher in Major League Baseball. I'd risk and even gladly accept the 5-year penalty of shaving our international bonus pool in half from the current annual amount of $4.75 million to $2.375 million. Losing out on $11.875 million in spending money is worth it if it promises us Otani in a Dodgers uniform over that same period and beyond.

I'd even consider taking MLB to court if they won't allow the Dodgers to pay Otani the market rate for his performances, but only if Otani protests, which I suspect he won't.
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Re: New CBA Ramifications 

Post#5 » by Neddy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:38 am

in just a little more than a year from now, Ethier/Gonzo/Carl Crawford/Matt Kemp/Kazmir/Alex Guerrero/Hector Olivera/Arrisbel Arruebarrena's dead money comes off the books. that alone will drop us below the tax line.
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Darvish, Otani & Dodgers 

Post#6 » by Ranma » Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:44 am

I was worried that teams would have money to offer Shohei Otani big bucks before the next international signing period but quite a lot of teams have actually spent significant portions of their hard-capped bonus pool. If Otani still doesn't want to wait 2 more years and is willing to pass up a $100-million deal that would be available to him by then in order to come to play in MLB sooner, he can wait until July 2, 2018 for the Dodgers to offer up to a maximum signing bonus of $7.125 $8.3125 million after paying the posting fee.

I want to counter a few points against the likelihood of him coming over sooner rather than later.

First, Otani just came back this season in late July to play in NPB due to injury, so he has the option of waiting, training, negotiating, and visiting with other teams for about the same amount of time next year so that he can play in MLB 1½ seasons sooner.

Second, the Dodgers' maximum offer would be only $1.5 $1.75 million less than the $8.625-million $10.0625-million maximum a small-market club would be able to offer him. Plus, if Darvish enjoys his experience with the Dodgers, he'd likely have positive words about the organization if and when he talks with Otani. The Japanese connection of Darvish, Maeda, and Roberts should be an advantage in the pursuit of Otani.

Third, while Otani could wait until he turns 25 to sign a 9-figure contract, his Japanese team would get nothing since the posting system would no longer apply to him at that point. I suspect Otani wants to pay back his club for accommodating him while also fulfilling his desire to come over sooner, so it seems to me that he'd still be inclined to come over sooner rather than later, especially given previous talk of his desire to learn and compete at the highest level as well as his relative disregard for money.

However, apparently at the behest of Major League Baseball, there is currently no longer a posting agreement with Nippon Professional Baseball. NPB is pushing for a higher posting fee while MLB wants to do away with the posting system altogether in order to encourage young Japanese talent to sign with MLB out of high school instead of joining an NPB team like Otani did, otherwise, such prospects would risk delaying their MLB dreams for years almost a decade (9 years). MLB is apparently willing to sacrifice the opportunity to bring Otani over sooner in order to push this agenda.

Just like the Dodgers have been targeted in revisions to the new CBA, MLB seems to be vindictive in making an example out of Otani so that future Japanese prep prospects will think twice before passing on the opportunity to sign with MLB teams right out of high school. Otani now cannot sign with an MLB team until a new posting agreement is worked out or until his current NPB contract expires when he turns 25 in 2 years. If Once a new posting system is instituted before then, I fully expect Otani to now jump at the chance to come over.

I was previously concerned with the Dodgers being at a noticeable disadvantage in pursuing Otani when that has been the opposite. Whenever Shohei is available and eligible, we should be well positioned to offer him a financially competitive offer whether as a J2 signing or an unrestricted free agent.


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Bob Nightengale, USA Today (7/27/17)
So are the Rangers willing to abandon life without Darvish, and perhaps give up any chance to sign Otani, Japan’s version of Babe Ruth, who absolutely idolizes Darvish?

Yu Darvish: Why the Rangers Would Be Foolish to Trade Their Ace


Mike Axisa, CBSsports.com (7/5/17)
All of this week's international signing period activity figures to have a pretty significant impact on the upcoming offseason. Japanese right-hander Shohei Otani, the best player in the world not under contract with an MLB team, is subject to the international hard cap because he is only 23 years old. He'll have to wait two years, until he's 25, to be exempt from the hard cap. Otani doesn't want to have to wait that long. Neither do MLB teams. But those are the rules.

The way I see it, Otani coming over to MLB this offseason was unlikely to start with. The hard cap severely limited his earning potential, and my thinking was he'd prefer to stay home in Japan the next two years and make good money rather than come to MLB to make relative peanuts. Now that just about every MLB team has maxed out their international bonus space this year, I think it closes the door completely on Otani coming this winter. There's not enough financial incentive.

Why This Week Made It Less Likely Shohei Otani Will Come to MLB This Offseason


Jim Allen, Kyodo News (7/7/17)
With the last posting agreement having been scrapped at MLB's request, NPB and MLB are now negotiating a replacement to the agreement that permits Japanese professionals under contract to move to the majors.

They can't understand that a player like Otani, who wants to learn to hit and throw major league fastballs while he's young, would want to give up hundreds of millions of dollars instead of waiting two years.

"Money is not the issue for Otani," Fighters manager Hideki Kuriyama has said repeatedly the past year. "His decision won't be based on money."

What MLB does get is that without a posting system, Japan's next high school superstar may think twice about turning pro in NPB. Without a posting system, most Japanese pros will be nearly 30 before they can file for free agency. That means they will have missed the opportunity Otani currently has: of adjusting to MLB pitching and hitting at a young age.

When MLB's new international signing rules were announced in December, a senior MLB executive told Kyodo News he thought the rules would discourage more Japanese amateurs from playing in NPB.

It is not a stretch to see MLB jettisoning the chance to bring Otani to the United States now by scrapping the posting system altogether -- if MLB clubs think they can throw open the tap on Japan's amateur market.

Baseball: Posting System, Not Cash Hurdle for Otani
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Otani's Pitching Progress and Moves Made in Pursuit of Him 

Post#7 » by Ranma » Tue Aug 8, 2017 4:56 pm

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Otani Watch Begins 

Post#8 » by Ranma » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:49 pm

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Re: New CBA Ramifications 

Post#9 » by Neddy » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:55 pm

Otani really outta not come until he is 25. not only for his contract situation, but this young man needs to get his health back to where it was last season, both physically and mentally. he is the most popular player in Japan, his jerseys being sold even in Tokyo Dome's Giants' merchandise shop. it would be detrimental to that nation's pride if Otani comes here physically and mentally unsound, and falls flat on his face.

but mostly so the Dodgers can sign him. we can make him richer than any other team in baseball. :D
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Dodgers Hold Otani Watch Party in Japan 

Post#10 » by Ranma » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:27 pm

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Showcase for Shohei Scheduled 

Post#11 » by Ranma » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:51 am

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Scouting Report on Otani's Late August Outing 

Post#12 » by Ranma » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:50 am

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Otani's 3rd Start of Season 

Post#13 » by Ranma » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:54 am

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Otani Expected to Come Stateside for 2018 MLB Season 

Post#14 » by Ranma » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:57 am

Buster Olney, ESPN.com (9/3/17)
Shohei Otani will be the most-discussed player in the baseball industry this winter, because of his age (23) and his staggering ability as a hitter and pitcher. The other day, with Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and evaluators from more than a dozen other teams in attendance, Otani’s fastball was clocked at 100 mph. Because of new restrictions under the collective bargaining agreement negotiated last fall, Otani would stand to make more money if he waited a couple of years to move to MLB. But the full expectation within the industry at this point is that Otani will be playing for an MLB team in the 2018 season.

As the summer began, there was a perception among some teams that Otani wants to hit and pitch regularly, and while that might prove to be impractical, it seems like an easy quandary to resolve, initially. Like a college basketball coach dealing with a recruit who wants to start, executives can tell Otani: Sure, we’re happy to give you that opportunity.

Olney: Verlander's Departure Marks the End of an Era for Tigers


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More Shohei Stuff 

Post#15 » by Ranma » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:42 am

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Added Otani Goodness 

Post#16 » by Ranma » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:40 am

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Shohei Shop Talk 

Post#17 » by Ranma » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 pm

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Re: New CBA Ramifications & Shohei Otani Watch 

Post#18 » by Neddy » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:14 am

I hope Brian Cashman and all other idiots walk away after seeing Otani struggle a little. for those of us who paid attention to his career since his Koshien ascension, know who he is as a player, and how he grew as a player. the Shohei right now is still a shell of his real self. I hope he is for real with his saying of just wanting to play in MLB, because he can only offer him $300,000 signing bonus, but he wanted to be a dodger out of high school. I say if he really means when he says money don't matter, then we are still the favorite.
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Candidates for Ohtani's Services 

Post#19 » by Ranma » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:07 am

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Jon Paul Morosi, MLB.com (9/14/17)
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The presence of Yu Darvish on the Dodgers' roster illustrates why the National League West leaders could be a match for Ohtani. Either Darvish leaves as a free agent after this season and Friedman must replace him with another elite right-hander or Darvish -- Ohtani's idol and the Fighters' former ace -- re-signs with Los Angeles and becomes integral to the Dodgers' recruiting efforts with Ohtani.

How much does Ohtani revere Darvish? When Ohtani joined the Fighters, he assumed the jersey number --11 -- that Darvish left behind when he departed for MLB.

The Dodgers are prohibited from paying Ohtani or any international amateur a signing bonus of more than $300,000 until July 2, 2018, because of previous spending over international bonus caps. But implicit in Ohtani's decision to come to MLB now -- rather than wait two years, when he'd become exempt from the international signing limitations -- is that access to MLB itself is more important than maximizing the amount of his first signing bonus in North America.

Culturally, Los Angeles holds great appeal for Ohtani: California is home to the largest Japanese-American population of any U.S. state, and three of the top five Japanese-born pitchers on the MLB wins list have worn Dodgers uniforms: Hideo Nomo (first), Hiroki Kuroda (second) and Darvish (fifth).

5 Possible MLB Landing Spots for Ohtani
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What Will It Take to Secure Ohtani? 

Post#20 » by Ranma » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:19 am

Neddy wrote:I hope Brian Cashman and all other idiots walk away after seeing Otani struggle a little. for those of us who paid attention to his career since his Koshien ascension, know who he is as a player, and how he grew as a player. the Shohei right now is still a shell of his real self. I hope he is for real with his saying of just wanting to play in MLB, because he can only offer him $300,000 signing bonus, but he wanted to be a dodger out of high school. I say if he really means when he says money don't matter, then we are still the favorite.


Given the relative bargain of even a $10-million price tag plus an anticipated $20-million posting fee, I doubt anyone outside of the Orioles would walk away from the opportunity to sign Ohtani. I know it's wishful thinking but I want to underline how fierce the competition for him will be since it may come down to whether the Dodgers would be willing to offer him the opportunity to pitch and hit regularly as an MLB player.

I was hoping that we could convince him to wait 3 months in order to dip into the next period of our international signing budget,
but if he is going to forgo hundreds of millions of dollars, I doubt he'll pass up the opportunity for the full MLB experience including spring training. Unless he wants to rehabilitate a lingering injury or MLB and NPB can't come to an agreement on a new posting arrangement, we have to assume that he's going to be posted as soon as it is possible.

While money is obviously not the priority for Shohei, I'm still concerned that $300,000 will not be enough to sign him. However, since we can't do anything about that, we'll have to further assume that what we have to offer financially will be good enough. The Dodgers indeed almost signed him out of high school, but it's been noted that the Giants and Rangers were also under consideration back then.

Obviously, our track record with Japanese major leaguers gives us an edge along with California's large Japanese population. I'm still hanging my hat on the opportunity to apprentice behind Clayton Kershaw as being a big selling point. It's also important that we have a good postseason showing in order to present Ohtani with the opportunity to perennially compete for championships. He wants to compete at the highest level and that includes the playoffs as it offers him the opportunity to test his mettle and prove himself during the most intense levels of competition. Also, our analytically-inclined front office and Rick Honeycutt offer him first-class resources that should give him the best chance of realizing his full potential.

I like how FanGraphs hypothesizes about reasonable scenarios for a team like the Dodgers to offer Ohtani an extension after his first MLB season assuming it's a strong one. Citing precedence with the likes of Andrelton Simmons, Evan Longoria and Jose Abreu, the Dodgers could theoretically offer a 7-year, $125-million contract extension after his MLB rookie season with opt-ins and/or opt-outs that would theoretically buy out 2 years of free agency while guaranteeing him a high salary in addition to giving him the option to opt out in order to reach free agency as soon as possible.

Given the Dodgers' willingness to provide player-friendly opt-outs to Kershaw and Scott Kazmir in the past, this should be right up our alley, especially if Ohtani signs with us for a paltry $300,000. The only thing the Dodgers can't do is explicitly promise such an arrangement if and when we sign him this off-season.

I'm far from being an expert on contracts but I believe the structure of the aforementioned extension could look something like the following:

    Year 1 = $545,000 League Minimum for 2018
    ------------------------------------
    7-Year Extension Below
    ------------------------------------
    Year 2 = $8 Million for 2019
    Year 3 = $8 Million for 2020
    Year 4 = $12 Million for 2021 (Opt-In for Arbitration for Possibly Higher Salary Voiding Years 4 - 8 of Deal)
    Year 5 = $13 Million for 2022 (Eligible for Arbitration If Year 4 Opt-In Exercised)
    Year 6 = $14 Million for 2023 (Eligible for Arbitration If Year 4 Opt-In Exercised)
    Year 7 = $34 Million for 2024 (Opt-Out for Unrestricted Free Agency Provided Year 4 Opt-In Not Excercised)
    Year 8 = $36 Million for 2025 (Opt-Out for Unrestricted Free Agency Provided Year 4 Opt-In Not Excercised)

From my understanding of the FanGraphs article for this hypothetical contract extension, Ohtani would have the option of reaching unrestricted free agency sooner after Year 6 and guaranteeing himself $55 million + $845,000 in league minimum salary and signing bonus if he does not opt in for arbitration for Year 4 and opts out of Year 7 to be a free agent after the 2023 season.

He could also opt into arbitration for Year 4 to potentially get more money than this original contract extension, but he'd be under team control for 8 seasons for whatever reason in this scenario.

Of course, he could choose not to opt-in for salary arbitration nor opt out for any year he is eligible for those player options and come away with the $125 million + $845,000 for 8 full seasons with this extension before becoming an unrestricted free agent at the age of 31.
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